The Image Manager thread

[gvallee]

Although I have the same problem as Philippe, big time, I also agree with Ian regarding deletion of duplicates.

In my case, all my keywords have been split into single tags.

One example: I had 'Open Wings', 'Outstretched Wings'. This became Open,Wings,Outstretched,Wings.

If one 'Wings' is deleted, when I come to review tags and to create two words tags, I might not notice that not only 'Open' needs 'Open Wings' but also 'Outstretched' needs 'Outstretched Wings'.

It would be a matter of visual association.

 

Now I am beginning to wonder, instead of trying to mess around with legacy images, wouldn't it be easier to reupload? As Alamy now stopped stripping the commas, all phrases would be kept in one tag. This would involve checking that no image has no more than 50 keywords before upload but it seems a much lighter task. Has anyone considered this?

[IanGibson]

I thought I'd try keywording some images on my iPad. Of course, it's impossible. IM opens, I can see my latest batch of pictures and I can highlight one, or many. However, the section with caption, tags etc, is greyed out - for some reason it won't let me click on this. Any ideas? It's just another example of the massive fail Alamy has produced.

It works on my iPad. It's a bit fiddly and the iPad has to be in landscape orientation.

[Colblimp]

 

I thought I'd try keywording some images on my iPad. Of course, it's impossible. IM opens, I can see my latest batch of pictures and I can highlight one, or many. However, the section with caption, tags etc, is greyed out - for some reason it won't let me click on this. Any ideas? It's just another example of the massive fail Alamy has produced.

It works on my iPad. It's a bit fiddly and the iPad has to be in landscape orientation.

Interesting. Any ideas how I can make it work looking at the issue I have?

[IanGibson]

 

 

I thought I'd try keywording some images on my iPad. Of course, it's impossible. IM opens, I can see my latest batch of pictures and I can highlight one, or many. However, the section with caption, tags etc, is greyed out - for some reason it won't let me click on this. Any ideas? It's just another example of the massive fail Alamy has produced.

It works on my iPad. It's a bit fiddly and the iPad has to be in landscape orientation.

Interesting. Any ideas how I can make it work looking at the issue I have?

Alas, I'm a software user, not a software wizard. I'm using a 4th gen iPad with iOS 10.2.1 and using the safari browser. When I've had problems previously with apps or websites behaving erratically, a hard reset usually sorts out the problem, but I guess you will already have tried that.

[Jansos]

still on old system here

Yup, me too. Can anyone post a screenshot of what the new system looks like?

[Betty LaRue]

If duplicates were stripped out, I shudder to think what would happen to the scientific name, Gorilla gorilla gorilla. I'm sure after they tried deleting duplicates, the can of worms were bigger than they are now.

[wiskerke]

 

"From: (CR) Corin [mailto:crcorin@alamy.com]

Subject: RE: Deletion of duplicate tags in new MI

 

This has never been a function with the Alamy Image Manager. We understand this may be frustrating and time consuming but unfortunately we cannot automatically remove duplicated keywords for you. "

 

 

 

As an early Beta tester of the IM, and frequent beneficiary over the last two months of the way the IM *did* automatically delete duplicate keyword tags, I can categorically state that this comment from Alamy is wrong.

 

 

 

km

 

 

This is slightly misleading Keith!

 

A previous test version of the Image Manager did delete duplicate tags, but this was only possible when tags were ordered alphabetically within the tool, something that we reverted back from after further testing and feedback.

 

The version rolled out to those outside the test group has had no code within it at all that removes duplicate tags.

 

If anyone would like to provide examples of this happening and can provide image refs etc for us we will be happy to continue to investigate, but upon clicking save now, there is no code at all in place that can work through the tags to remove duplicates and this has been confirmed by the head of development at Alamy who led the build on this project.

 

As we've mentioned previously and as is stated in the main rules of the forum, it's not possible for us to answer all questions here but the team are always quick and happy to help if you email contributors@alamy.com.

 

Thanks

 

Alamy

 

 

Sorry Alamy, that's not entirely true.

 

If you look at these posts here, you'll see Martin Wilson describe exactly how it was on the first day "in the open":

http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/6902-yay-i-have-new-manage-images/?p=117071

http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/6902-yay-i-have-new-manage-images/?p=117351

 

Then the next day Reimar (but he was not the first) noticed the difference and described it in his post:

http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/6902-yay-i-have-new-manage-images/?p=117509

 

However Ian is absolutely right on this: do not turn it back on as long as the search engine is working as it does. And as long there still are the odd 90 million images that have been keyworded with word proximity in mind.

Especially with rank playing a much lesser role, clients would be inundated with images with exactly the same sequence of keywords.

 

The most simple solution would be to have a version of the Image Manager without tags or where tags can be switched off and on. That way we could easily put in or delete our own punctuation, combining keywords into tags. Copying keywords from one image to another if one so pleases.

Most people don't want to delete anything, just comply with the new rules. Having the tags with all inherent rules and behavior is making that very hard.

 

The best workaround at the moment seems to be to work on an intermediate document and to just copy the newly compiled keywords into the new tag input box.

 

That leaves us to manually delete each legacy tag.  If all legacy fields have been populated that means 1206 character positions divided by an average English word length of 6.66 = 180 tags meaning 180 clicks to clean up 1 image.

(Keywords are not ordinary language, but my guess is that it's a mix between the average word length of a lexicon = 8.23 and that of written text = 5.10. US word length will probably be slightly shorter and UK English a bit longer.)

I have just clocked my performance with a 100 tag image and my best score so far is about 120 seconds.

 

Now I know talking about or proposing a button is absolute anathema for developers but here is one: please add a delete all keywords for this image button.

Or let me re-phrase that: As a user I want to be able to delete all keywords with one click in under 1 second.

And then put in all new keywords in under one second.

 

(But actually it should read: As a user I want to be able to delete all keywords with one click in under 1 second, because your interface does not allow me to edit my keywords in a way as quick and convenient as manipulating plain text. )

 

 

With my smallish portfolio of around 2300 images, I will probably throw away 10% = 230 upon reviewing. I have keyworded around 50 in the new tool of which 25 will have to be done again because of faults the tool has introduced.

Let's say I delete some more and I'll have to re-keyword 2000. 

 

That means just clicking away existing tags is 66 hours of work.

30 hours per 1000 images for a keyword load of around 50%.

 

That means I'm lucky:

 

Wim 1 week 2.5 days

Martin 3 weeks 2 days

Reeray 4 weeks

Phil 22 weeks

Keith 25 weeks

Philippe 32 weeks

 

of clicking away old tags.

(at 40 hrs/wk)

 

wim

 

edit: typo.

A serious typo actually. Not 30 hours for 100 images, but for 1000 images of course. The rest is correct, as it was a typo and not a wrong number.

Luckily all those photographers here are just as innumerate as I am.

Well, I am. Sorry.

[ReeRay]

It'll take me a lot longer than that Wim. 6 hours a day keywording! No way!

 

I started making my amendments as soon as Alamy announced the forthcoming changes (November) and working from the oldest first I've completed 2 years of 8 years worth of uploads (and I wasn't uploading a lot initially)

 

Suffice to say, I endorse a "1 click delete all" button

[Jon Lewis]

Hi All

 

As I'm not on the new dashboard it look like nothing's changed from my point of view but it seems to have caused much consternation among the regulars for various reasons .

 

Am I getting the search experience customers get and we are worrying too much ? ( I would be concerned if I had a larger port )

 

Regards

 

Jon

 

Kumar had a poem here's one for Keith

 

There was a young man from West Wales

Who's port had fantastic sales

His secret was clear

It's because of the pier

And the starlings.

[Pearl]

 

 

 

"From: (CR) Corin [mailto:crcorin@alamy.com]Subject: RE: Deletion of duplicate tags in new MI

This has never been a function with the Alamy Image Manager. We understand this may be frustrating and time consuming but unfortunately we cannot automatically remove duplicated keywords for you. "

 

 

As an early Beta tester of the IM, and frequent beneficiary over the last two months of the way the IM *did* automatically delete duplicate keyword tags, I can categorically state that this comment from Alamy is wrong.

 

 

km

 

This is slightly misleading Keith!

 

A previous test version of the Image Manager did delete duplicate tags, but this was only possible when tags were ordered alphabetically within the tool, something that we reverted back from after further testing and feedback.

 

The version rolled out to those outside the test group has had no code within it at all that removes duplicate tags.

 

If anyone would like to provide examples of this happening and can provide image refs etc for us we will be happy to continue to investigate, but upon clicking save now, there is no code at all in place that can work through the tags to remove duplicates and this has been confirmed by the head of development at Alamy who led the build on this project.

 

As we've mentioned previously and as is stated in the main rules of the forum, it's not possible for us to answer all questions here but the team are always quick and happy to help if you email contributors@alamy.com.

 

Thanks

 

Alamy

So why don't you revert it back so the tags are in alphabetical order and duplicates are removed? I can only see advantages. What's the problem with that?

Cheers,

Philippe

Firstly, whatever Alamy say, on Monday the new IM was definitely removing duplicate tags when saving. It's an indisputable fact, and multiple contributors aren't imagining it.

 

Having said that, I'm glad the new tool hasn't now got that facility - and for very good reasons. There are almost 100 million images on Alamy and most of them won't be revisited by contributors - particularly agencies and those with large collections. Consequently, there certainly shouldn't be any automatic deletion of keywords or alphabetising when transferring across to the new system. (Not sure if anybody is actually suggesting that?). By leaving keywords in the order they were entered, and not deleting duplicates, the images are still eminently searchable and should provide appropriate results for the buyer.

 

Even for those who want to make revisions, deletion and re-ordering would prove problematic. Let's take an example of a shot of New York City, where you just want to add a couple of supertags. Under the old system, it might have had the keywords "new,york,city,brooklyn,bridge,city,skyline,brooklyn,heights." Word proximity and order would bring the image high up in a search for New York City, Brooklyn Bridge and Brooklyn Heights- which is what the contributor intended. If, as soon as you started editing, all duplicates were removed (and, even worse, tags were put in alphabetical order), you'd end up with a load of gibberish, such as "bridge,brooklyn,city,heights,new,skyline,york". That image would never be found for the previous search terms.

 

By leaving in duplicates and maintaining word order, it's giving buyers the best chance of getting the image they want. It also means that, for the moment, you really shouldn't need to be doing any mass editing.

 

Having said that, the total lack of thought Alamy seem to have put into the refining of legacy images is pretty disturbing. It's virtually impossible to do batch editing - and trying to revise an image with over 50 tags is long winded and tedious in the extreme. The simplest solution would be to allow old images to be revised without consideration of the number of tags - automatic deletion of duplicates and alphabetising isn't the way to go.

 

Ian D

 

 

+1

 

I totally agree with Ian.  I want to be able to make minor revisions to my legacy images such as adding to the now expanded caption or changing pseudo without it changing the order or number of keywords/tags.

 

I revised the keywords of one legacy image converting to tags and super tags. When the SE was updated the image had moved back from page 1 to page 2 taking the rest of that pseudo's images with it.  Not a good result.  I shall leave my legacy images' keywords well alone now unless anything changes.

 

Pearl

[Jon Lewis]

Hi All

 

 

I also wonder if this flurry of kewording panic is temporally skewing things .

 

Jon

[tarsierspectral]

How do we know when the images are really "on sale"?  With the old IM it said "Ready" or something like that once you keyworded and ticked appropriate boxes and once the images were added to database they said "on sale" (or something like that).  With this IM the moment the images pas the QC they say "on sale" but they are nowhere to be found on the site when you search as a customer.  So how do I know they are REALLY on sale without searching over and over?

[tarsierspectral]

 

How do we know when the images are really "on sale"?  With the old IM it said "Ready" or something like that once you keyworded and ticked appropriate boxes and once the images were added to database they said "on sale" (or something like that).  With this IM the moment the images pas the QC they say "on sale" but they are nowhere to be found on the site when you search as a customer.  So how do I know they are REALLY on sale without searching over and over?

 

Click on the image number under your avatar. Normally, the images should appear on-line the next day (late afternoon (in Europe)).

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

You mean on the forum?

[DJ Myford]

Don't trust the 'Your status' figures on the Dashboard, or use them to reach AIM. Mine have been wrong since AIM arrived.

[MariaJ]

How do we know when the images are really "on sale"? With the old IM it said "Ready" or something like that once you keyworded and ticked appropriate boxes and once the images were added to database they said "on sale" (or something like that). With this IM the moment the images pas the QC they say "on sale" but they are nowhere to be found on the site when you search as a customer. So how do I know they are REALLY on sale without searching over and over?

There appears to be a couple ways to see if images are on sale in AIM. For each batch you have uploaded, underneath the submission title it will say how many are on sale. Also if you do a search of your portfolio, in one of the filters (Discoverability) you can check off "not on sale", on sale, deletion pending, etc.

 

Edit-also, underneath each image in AIM, it indicates if it is on sale, right below the Discoverability bar.

[tarsierspectral]

 

How do we know when the images are really "on sale"? With the old IM it said "Ready" or something like that once you keyworded and ticked appropriate boxes and once the images were added to database they said "on sale" (or something like that). With this IM the moment the images pas the QC they say "on sale" but they are nowhere to be found on the site when you search as a customer. So how do I know they are REALLY on sale without searching over and over?

There appears to be a couple ways to see if images are on sale in AIM. For each batch you have uploaded, underneath the submission title it will say how many are on sale. Also if you do a search of your portfolio, in one of the filters (Discoverability) you can check off "not on sale", on sale, deletion pending, etc.

 

Edit-also, underneath each image in AIM, it indicates if it is on sale, right below the Discoverability bar.

 

 

I think you misunderstood me.  Yes, there is an indication saying "on sale" but they are not.  They say "on sale" the moment they pass the QC (if you have keywords in IPTC already).  But when do youk now when they really have been added to the database and are searchable by the customer.

[Richard Baker]

Dear Alamy: For those of us still not migrated (and speaking personally, happy not to for the moment!) I think we'll need to post the same questions all over again. With 24 pages already of this thread, trying to read what posters are referring to without having the new pages in front of us means each topic is largely meaningless.

 

Apart from the blog trumpeting the new look, I haven't yet seen a good Help page but really hope that when the rest of us do inherit, there's some good, updated info available to us (the clipping of keywords, for example) as it seems that the problems and questions will be as extensive.

 

Rgds,

Richard.

[spacecadet]

  But when do you now when they really have been added to the database and are searchable by the customer.

 

Same as before, you have to wait for the database update at an indeterminate time. I agree that a "ready" would have been helpful, but it always took a while for images to drop off MI after it had actually happened- sometimes an hour or two. So neither way is quite perfect.

Today I think it was at about 1100.

[tarsierspectral]

 

  But when do you now when they really have been added to the database and are searchable by the customer.

 

Same as before, you have to wait for the database update at an indeterminate time. I agree that a "ready" would have been helpful, but it always took a while for images to drop off MI after it had actually happened- sometimes an hour or two. So neither way is quite perfect.

Today I think it was at about 1100.

 

 

true, but at least I knew I was good to go on my side and just needed to wait for the database update.  Mine have been sitting with "on sale" since yesterday but they are not on sale.  It's just that I don't know if I didn't do something on my side or something else.

[tarsierspectral]

I just checked and now half of them are showing on real sale and half are not.  Weird.

[wiskerke]

Dear Alamy: For those of us still not migrated (and speaking personally, happy not to for the moment!) I think we'll need to post the same questions all over again. With 24 pages already of this thread, trying to read what posters are referring to without having the new pages in front of us means each topic is largely meaningless.

 

Apart from the blog trumpeting the new look, I haven't yet seen a good Help page but really hope that when the rest of us do inherit, there's some good, updated info available to us (the clipping of keywords, for example) as it seems that the problems and questions will be as extensive.

 

Rgds,

Richard.

 

AIM Instruction Manual:

 

http://www.alamy.com/myupload/help/AIM-InstructionManual.pdf

 

wim

 

edit: clear and understandable link got truncated by forum layout.

[John Walker]

I just checked and now half of them are showing on real sale and half are not.  Weird.

They don't all appear at the same time.  The system seems to gradually work it's way through batches so you probably caught it in mid-process.

[tarsierspectral]

 

I just checked and now half of them are showing on real sale and half are not.  Weird.

They don't all appear at the same time.  The system seems to gradually work it's way through batches so you probably caught it in mid-process.

 

 

That's right!  Thanks

[Richard Baker]

Thanks, Wim. Just the ticket.

 

Richard.

[Colblimp]

Question for those who aren't technologically illiterate, like me!

 

I've captioned and keyworded an image but have realised I could have used pretty much the same words on another image.  How do I transfer those tags over to the other pic?