Keith Douglas Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Starsphinx said: I am not seeing much about the route to competence I am seeing people who occasionally in the course of their normal activities come across full on newsworthy stuff and who are rather peeved at having had the place they would have sent it denied to them. I am not a news photographer - nor would I want to focus on that. However, due to the things I do do, I actually come across actual news more frequently than Joe Public - say 5 or 6 times a year. Now I am (I believe) competent with a camera, I read and understood the stuff on captioning headlining etc and complied with Alamys requirements. The fact that I did not and do not chase stories and send in multiple news stuff day in day out does not detract from what I did send in and does not detract from what I will take in future. There are numerous others in similar situations - who get stuff a few times a year and want to be able to do something with it, who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and who have been dropped without so much as a bye the bye. I do not see anyone arguing about separating news and stock or adding in a soft news area I see people arguing about not being given any notice or warning and that the way the decisions on who to drop appear to have been made is far from the best way to make that decision. It's not about sending in News stuff day after day (the input). It's about making regular sales of News stuff as News (the output), not Stock. From a business perspective the output seems to me to be the most relevant measure to use. That appears to be what Alamy has done. Did your News stuff sell as News? Edited April 10, 2019 by Keith Douglas 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsphinx Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Keith Douglas said: It's not about sending in News stuff day after day. It's about making regular sales of News stuff as News, not Stock. Did your News stuff sell as News? No and it did not sell as stock either. I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not. That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable - at most of them, I was the only remotely professional photographer. I even ended up with an attempted murder less than a mile away with shots of the air ambulance taking off. Now sometimes small local incidents like that are covered by the nationals sometimes they are not. They absolutely are not stock photos (and yes were up within an hour of the heli taking off). Do you want to tell me they are not suitable for news? Do you want to suggest if that happens again I should not bother because its not news? If your suggestion is I apply to get the access back my point is that if I have to apply here for access I might as well apply to another place I have been recommended to more than once and which I have not bothered with because I did not want the hassle of applying. Which means Alamy loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Starsphinx said: No and it did not sell as stock either. I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not. That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable - at most of them, I was the only remotely professional photographer. I even ended up with an attempted murder less than a mile away with shots of the air ambulance taking off. Now sometimes small local incidents like that are covered by the nationals sometimes they are not. They absolutely are not stock photos (and yes were up within an hour of the heli taking off). Do you want to tell me they are not suitable for news? Do you want to suggest if that happens again I should not bother because its not news? If your suggestion is I apply to get the access back my point is that if I have to apply here for access I might as well apply to another place I have been recommended to more than once and which I have not bothered with because I did not want the hassle of applying. Which means Alamy loses. If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Starsphinx said: I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not. erm, yes they are km 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsphinx Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said: If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? As I said them not having sold does not mean they are/were not saleable. Is attempted murder newsworthy? Is a fire in a historic pub saleable? Is a chemical incident close to a national story on chemical terrorism saleable? Are you suggesting that I do not bother submitting such anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aphperspective Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 59 minutes ago, Colblimp said: I live in Ireland - it's always cold and wet lol! I regularly get soaked shooting wet weather pics, but it's worth it when I make sales. As for prices, it varies from $ to $$$, dependent on the pic, the deal, the discount, etc, etc... Our prevailing wind is mainly from the West straight off the Atlantic. All that evaporated water comes down on us here in Ireland. Hence good grass so good race horses and good cows, sun tan not so good.😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhandol Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said: If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? If say tomorrow you happen to be the only photographer to snap a plane crash or be in the thick of it during a Brexit riot, then of course alamy loses if you have to send your exclusive pics to someone else, regardless of your past track record. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colblimp Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Starsphinx said: I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not. That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable Well if they didn't sell it means they weren't saleable! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I have also been rejected from live news uploads without any warning. Is it now just for the more experienced photographers, we all have to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM Chang Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) A quick review from a general point of view: Case 1: Photographers (A) who only shoot news. Case 2: Photographers (B) who shoot most news and occasionally stock. Case 3: Photographers (C) who shoot news and stock by 50/50. Case 4: Photographers (D) who shoot most stock and occasionally news. In a safe position (As normal): (A) and maybe (B): main sales on live news and "regular" on stock. Uncertain position (Rejected): (B), (C) and (D), always focusing on "news images", assuming they sell occasionally as news images, or just as stock images. Independent of how many togs were revoked, will (B,C,D) shoot "newsworthy" images to upload as stock? These "newsworthy" images must pass technical QC, with the risk of images coming from less favorable shoot environments and unfavorable timing. If the doors are closed in this way, there is no possibility of any sale. IMHO Andre I am not discussing whether or not news images sells quantity via Alamy implies that are photojournalistic work or not, because maybe it can be sold through other sources, obviously, depending on several factors (Geography, etc.), better for another topic. Edited April 10, 2019 by AM Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starsphinx said: As I said them not having sold does not mean they are/were not saleable. Is attempted murder newsworthy? Is a fire in a historic pub saleable? Is a chemical incident close to a national story on chemical terrorism saleable? Are you suggesting that I do not bother submitting such anywhere? What you're saying is that these are saleable subjects, and I would agree. But your images of those subjects didn't sell. What conclusion can we draw from that? Alamy are measuring a contributors News sales, not how many images they submit, to determine whether they should have free access to Live News. If you have a newsworthy story you can submit images to Alamy or any other agency and they will evaluate whether your images illustrate the story and are worth submitting to News outlets. A professional News agency needs to be sending out only the quality work that meets the Client's brief and has a chance of being used, not everything that they receive. Edited April 10, 2019 by Keith Douglas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shergar Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 The problem is there are no jobs left for a photographer only opportunity's and this is now one less opportunity . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkK Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 As one who has also been cut off from submitting to Live News, I wanted to add to the discussion. First, I submitted to Live News sparingly. Second, the majority of my photos are of events thus cutting off the Live News avenue is requiring me to seek other avenues. Third, the newspaper industry in the US is going through many changes as it lays off staff and turns to stringers. In my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, USA, the main paper just let go the majority of its journalists last week. Isn't this an opportunity for agencies such as Alamy to step-in and let them know there are locals on the ground able to cover Live News stories. Unfortunately I am very much under the impression that UK/Euro news is what is relevant and of interest to the News Desk personnel. To give an idea of Live News photo ops that I have in the coming two weeks, here are the events I will be attending but not submitting as Live News but instead as stock. As the events are US specific I again see why Alamy has made it clear to me (even in a personal email) that these events in the US are of no interest to them. On Saturday and Sunday I will be in South Bend, Indiana to cover the Sunday announcement by Pete Buttigieg. It is assumed the 37 year old mayor of South Bend is going to announce he will be running for president. Yes this is US news but as is clear from the past couple years, the election of a US president impacts the world just as Brexit impacts the world. Following that I am heading to Lordstown, Ohio where the GM factory was closed and where Bernie Sanders, another Presidential Candidate, will be speaking. The closing of the GM plant represents many culturally specific issues and is extremely important to Ohio voters which in-turn is important to US voters as Ohio tends to be a swing state (albeit this time around it looks like that may be changing). That in turn means that the Lordstown talk by Bernie Sanders is relevant not only in Ohio but throughout the US and will idealistically impact global issues. Then on Saturday I will be in Denver for the 4/20 celebration, the largest of its kind in the United States. As cannabis becomes a political, economic, and sociocultural issue throughout the US and world, the relevance of this celebration is a global one. It is even more imporant in that the issue penetrates into so many areas including access to medical marijuana, legalization and its impacts on incarceration, state versus federal laws and the battle between the two, etc. Following that I head to Buffalo, New York for the largest Dyngus Day celebration in the United States. Each of these events offer real-time opportunities for Live News but instead I will now find myself uploading them as regular stock. If one looks through my portfolio they will see that my photos tend to cover demonstrations (time specific), government news (time specific), and other events. Again, I maybe uploaded Live News photos a couple times a month albeit during the summer months moreso than the winter months. I used the Live News outlet sparingly but now have been trying to figure out where to submit Live News to where relevance of events in my area are viewed with interest. It is what it is. After the recent 20 percent reduction for non-exclusive photos and then the Live News issue I have learned to not expect much from Alamy at this point. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 The more I look at it the angrier I become. Stockimo image N0113B gets preferential live news access over those of us denied access? dpa and zuma agencies have automatic live news access despite images being purely editorial in nature with limited descriptions. What gives Alamy?😡 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Sultanpepa said: The more I look at it the angrier I become. Stockimo image N0113B gets preferential live news access over those of us denied access? Yes it’s odd that this person has Stockimo news access when she has only a handful of images...... km 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 How about if you redefine "News pictures" to be "Topical pictures" ? The papers need to fill their pages with topical images, a lot of which are seasonal. It's not really news that the moon and sun are going to rise over St Michaels Mount on a certain day, or that there will be murmation of starlings in the winter around a well known pier, but it's topical and it makes a pleasant relief from the B word. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Simon said: How about if you redefine "News pictures" to be "Topical pictures" ? The papers need to fill their pages with topical images, a lot of which are seasonal. It's not really news that the moon and sun are going to rise over St Michaels Mount on a certain day, or that there will be murmation of starlings in the winter around a well known pier, but it's topical and it makes a pleasant relief from the B word. I agree. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, RedSnapper said: Yes it’s odd that this person has Stockimo news access when she has only a handful of images...... km Taken in the course of a couple of days. But hey, maybe they've sold: They're all about Aberystwyth 😂 wim edit: he/she has 12 more images on Stockimo, more or less the same as the news images. Could this be a test? Or is this the normal behavior of Stockimo News: duplicating the images? Edited April 11, 2019 by wiskerke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessandraRC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 the problem that I see is since I have never sold anything from Live News, only later as stock, i am unlikely to be selected, but that does not mean that tomorrow I won't be in a position to witness and photograph something of importance and be the only photographer there - their loss and mine too that I don't have a pass. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shergar Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I think I have come up with an idea that will work for the everyone. The Live news guys will be pleased to hear that they will carry on as normal. The guys that have been dumped will have to send their images to live news to see if they want them or not. If they do want them and can sell them they will then pay the dumped guys a new rate of 60% to make up for the extra hassle ! PS just let me know if you need me solve any other world problems. Cheers and gone Shergar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsphinx Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlessandraRC said: the problem that I see is since I have never sold anything from Live News, only later as stock, i am unlikely to be selected, but that does not mean that tomorrow I won't be in a position to witness and photograph something of importance and be the only photographer there - their loss and mine too that I don't have a pass. Someone will be along to tell you that all you have to do is phone the Alamy Live news team - how easy it is and how helpful they are. What nobody has yet told me is why in that situation I should phone Alamy Live news over any of the other agencies - or over going to new services direct. With the option there I chose it over others. With it removed Alamy will have to compete with all the other press agencies for any stuff I get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Shergar said: I think I have come up with an idea that will work for the everyone. The Live news guys will be pleased to hear that they will carry on as normal. The guys that have been dumped will have to send their images to live news to see if they want them or not. If they do want them and can sell them they will then pay the dumped guys a new rate of 60% to make up for the extra hassle ! PS just let me know if you need me solve any other world problems. Cheers and gone Shergar Good idea but didn't you misstype? Surely you meant 100%?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 10/04/2019 at 10:48, RedSnapper said: For a news photographer, its always the right place and always the right time...... km But having discarded many of their potential or occasional news contributors, there will be many "right places" and "right times" where their remaining (regular) news contributors just aren't present. They may have their cameras with them, but they will be in the wrong place at the right time. Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 10/04/2019 at 11:38, Keith Douglas said: It's not difficult really. If you've got a news story, get in touch with Alamy. As I'm one of the ones whose News privileges Alamy have chosen to remove, Alamy could well be the last agency I'd call if I happen on something very newsworthy. Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 43 minutes ago, Starsphinx said: Someone will be along to tell you that all you have to do is phone the Alamy Live news team - how easy it is and how helpful they are. What nobody has yet told me is why in that situation I should phone Alamy Live news over any of the other agencies - or over going to new services direct. With the option there I chose it over others. With it removed Alamy will have to compete with all the other press agencies for any stuff I get. I'm sure that all the agencies and newspapers will be welcoming your images with "how much do you want, name your price". Good luck! If you were an agency, which type of contributor would you build your business on: 1. The ones who claim to be good photographers, say they always have their camera ready and have been near to where the action is, and one day will come up with a scoop, but never actually deliver News images that sell? or 2. The dedicated news photographers who will seek out news stories and images, can be relied on to be there, know what makes a good news picture, and regularly deliver images that sell? I think you need to think about it from a business point of view, and not from your own, narrow perspective. Alamy is operating in a professional and competitive market. As contributors we should be operating as professionals, whether we are full time professionals or enthusiastic amateurs or somewhere in between. To expect access as a right without delivering the results is not what this business needs, either in terms of administrative burden or damage to its reputation by being seen to deliver sub-standard work that doesn't meet what the Clients want. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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