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7 minutes ago, Sally said:

There seem to be an awful lot of very non-news images from dpa contributors appearing in the live news feed. Is this usual or is something new going on?

If anything deserves to go straight into stock it's those. I wonder if they'll still be there tomorrow

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Sorry, not trying to get a dig in here, full respect to the photographer, just amused:

 

Blackout in Caracacus, Venezuela:

 

https://www.alamy.com/news/newsresults.aspx#BHM=foo%3Dbar%26qt%3D%26pn%3D1%26ps%3D120%26aoa%3D%26news%3D1%26sports%3D%26entmt%3D%26Videos%3D%26bb%3D1%26md%3DOL8026427%26dt%3D%26gid%3D{230FD316-C777-4664-BD88-E0773DF37B58}%26destxml%3D%26imglst%3D%26orderby%3DDT%26newsseq%3D%26userid%3D{83C2C740-21CF-42C2-8501-E7AF31BF2B04}%26rand%3D1554878434499

 

It's a news item for sure but will it make the front page? 

 

Actually I can see that to see Caracus with no lights is an extraordinary, unrepeatable event so may well make the front page in that region. 

 

 

Edited by Harry Harrison
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14 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Sorry, not trying to get a dig in here, full respect to the photographer, just amused:

 

Blackout in Caracacus, Venezuela:

 

https://www.alamy.com/news/newsresults.aspx#BHM=foo%3Dbar%26qt%3D%26pn%3D1%26ps%3D120%26aoa%3D%26news%3D1%26sports%3D%26entmt%3D%26Videos%3D%26bb%3D1%26md%3DOL8026427%26dt%3D%26gid%3D{230FD316-C777-4664-BD88-E0773DF37B58}%26destxml%3D%26imglst%3D%26orderby%3DDT%26newsseq%3D%26userid%3D{83C2C740-21CF-42C2-8501-E7AF31BF2B04}%26rand%3D1554878434499

 

It's a news item for sure but will it make the front page? 

 

Actually I can see that to see Caracus with no lights is an extraordinary, unrepeatable event so may well make the front page in that region. 

 

 

 

Caracacus?? Caracus?? I'm in the dark as to this town. LOL.

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12 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

To get, say, 5 pictures published in 12 months, would not be an unreasonable thing to expect of anyone wishing to describe themselves as a news photographer.....

 

km

It's quite reassuring (and I mean that in a positive way) to hear you say that level - speaking as one who is awaiting the 'appeal' process.

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19 minutes ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

I Started Live News 17 months ago, they kept me on for which I am grateful as I would never have had the opportunity elsewhere.

With 86 live news sales in that time I would have been very disappointed if they had gotten rid of me.

I'm sure the path is still there, I guess you have to demonstrate your worthiness, willingness, commitment? If you know what I mean.

86 sales in 17 months?  Oh my, that's good.

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14 minutes ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

Is it? I have nobody to judge against, It seems poor to me!

I only have around 50 in 12 months.  I think it's very good.

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13 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

 

 

this is the crucial point.......as far as i can see, all of the LiveNews photographers whose names frequently appeared in the 'have you found...' threads are still active and submitting images....
To name but a few off the top of my head, Simon Maycock, Chris Strickland, Carolyn Jenkins, Ed Brown, Cernan Elias/MWI, Guy Corbishley, Andrew Bartlett, Ian Jones, DGI Images, etc etc

To get, say, 5 pictures published in 12 months, would not be an unreasonable thing to expect of anyone wishing to describe themselves as a news photographer.....

 

km

Only started with Alamy last year and managed 6 published between August and end of December (mainly Irish Sun I think). Hopefully your math will help with my re application then Keith.😯

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I think the point a lot of us "non-news" photographers are trying to make is that while we do not focus on or deliberately go after news sometimes we are in the right place at the right time (like I was in a pub when it caught fire - only of local interest but still) and up until now we have had a good easy portal to get such images where they should be where they are likely to be seen by editors.

That portal has been closed without notice and without giving us the opportunity to give consideration to our workflow BEFORE the change.

Just because someone only submitted to live news once in a blue moon - and maybe did not sell there - is not a comment on their ability as a photographer or the quality and newsworthiness of their shots and I do believe that Alamy themselves are going to lose out because of the way they have handled this.

For a start, the problem with the use of live news to avoid QC or load non-newsy images is going to show the opposite of infrequent uploading (as is seen on the live news feed).  People using live news incorrectly will be uploading frequently - and it is easy to imagine that IF the culling has been done by automatic code that some offenders will have kept their privileges because they upload their frequently.

Live News is not, cannot be, only a numbers game - and to get the kind of feed that contributors and customers want is going to take more than a blunt axe removal of the majority of contributors.

 

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10 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

we are in the right place at the right time

 

 

For a news photographer, its always the right place  and always the right time......

 

km

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I have only submitted once to live news so the decision is of no real consequence to me.

But god forbid I could walk out of my door tomorrow and witness an event on national importance, how could I then submit images if that route has been closed to me.

Once again Alamy has thrown the baby out with the bath water.

I have seen images of a bird sitting on a garden fence masquerading as weather news images, so I can understand why Alamy need to tighten up, but why do they treat the responsible contributors that don't upload unless they think they really do have a news item the same as the ones that upload anything that remotely can (questionably) be called a weather image.

To me this is just another sign of the disdain with which Alamy treats its contributors and re-enforces my decision to gradually turn away from Alamy, the company that used to be fair  to its contributors.

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13 minutes ago, RedSnapper said:

 

 

For a news photographer, its always the right place  and always the right time......

 

km

That is my point - many of us are not news photographers - but we are photographers and sometimes we are in the right place at the right time (and there is no actual news photographer).   What should we do with the images we get if we are in the right place at the right time?  Just like Joe Bloggs, we could contact editors directly (many if not all national newspapers have well visible "contact us with a story" information ) or, until last week, we could work with an agency we were familiar with and trusted - we could come in and send news images to Alamy.  For many ordinary stock photographers that is going to be the first thing that comes into their mind - I can send these to where I already sell.  Not only have Alamy removed that option but they have done so in a way that has rubbed people the wrong way and resulted in them looking to see if there are other options besides contacting editors direct - and the bad news for Alamy is there are indeed other options.

 

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20 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

That is my point - many of us are not news photographers - but we are photographers and sometimes we are in the right place at the right time (and there is no actual news photographer).   What should we do with the images we get if we are in the right place at the right time?  Just like Joe Bloggs, we could contact editors directly (many if not all national newspapers have well visible "contact us with a story" information ) or, until last week, we could work with an agency we were familiar with and trusted - we could come in and send news images to Alamy.  For many ordinary stock photographers that is going to be the first thing that comes into their mind - I can send these to where I already sell.  Not only have Alamy removed that option but they have done so in a way that has rubbed people the wrong way and resulted in them looking to see if there are other options besides contacting editors direct - and the bad news for Alamy is there are indeed other options.

 

 

I posted this earlier in the thread, but you may have missed it.

 

I started [with Live News] on 6 April 2014. I was taking some photos of a friend running in the Sheffield Half Marathon, when things went badly wrong for the organisers. I think I was the only photographer who caught the action but I was just submitting Stock to Alamy at the time. I realised that the images were newsworthy, so I dashed back to my friends house and contacted Alamy. They set me up with News Access there and then (this was a Sunday afternoon), helped me with the captioning, and I uploaded the images and they appeared in the National Press the next day.

 

Sheffield Half Marathon Tear Sheet

 

It's not difficult really. If you've got a news story, get in touch with Alamy.

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1 hour ago, Colblimp said:

I only have around 50 in 12 months.  I think it's very good.

50 is very good. I have around 40 within the last 12 months. Lots of others that were used immediately after the 2 day live news period.

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57 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

I posted this earlier in the thread, but you may have missed it.

 

I started [with Live News] on 6 April 2014. I was taking some photos of a friend running in the Sheffield Half Marathon, when things went badly wrong for the organisers. I think I was the only photographer who caught the action but I was just submitting Stock to Alamy at the time. I realised that the images were newsworthy, so I dashed back to my friends house and contacted Alamy. They set me up with News Access there and then (this was a Sunday afternoon), helped me with the captioning, and I uploaded the images and they appeared in the National Press the next day.

 

Sheffield Half Marathon Tear Sheet

 

It's not difficult really. If you've got a news story, get in touch with Alamy.

Or if I have a news story get in touch with a national editor direct - it will take the same amount of time and result in more money.

More to the point when I have "interest" stories (say an incident involving white powder from a  package burning someones finger within months of Novichok and only 30 odd miles away) which may or may not be national news (at that point we could not say) previously I could upload to Alamy and they could give editors a heads up in case it developed - now I have to phone someone to sort out access and probably have to keep answering the phone to make updates when I should be taking pictures or trying to stay on top of what is going on.    Or when I am at an event for my own enjoyment which national news covers and picks up incidentals like mine despite the pros being there (say summer solstice at Stonehenge).  Previously I uploaded as national news and editors could see my incidentals immediately - now that stuff has to go as general stock.  

Of course, I could reapply to Alamy - but if I have to reapply I am going to look and see what other places are in a similar market and what they pay and how successful they are at selling live news images and I might just decide to apply somewhere else.  Multiply me by the many photographers here with similar shooting schedules who have not bothered looking elsewhere before because they did not have to and that is quite a lot of baby going out with the bathwater.

 

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7 hours ago, Colblimp said:

86 sales in 17 months?  Oh my, that's good........
I only have around 50 in 12 months. 

 

That's about the same ....5 a month v 4 a month

 

km

 

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I'm not seeing it. Where's the improvement in live news? Looking at the feed I can see images on it that could have been supplied by any one of us on alamy, even those who have never supplied to news before. While there's a number of us who have been culled there are agencies supplying images which we're all capable of. Where's the fairness? I know I'm speaking on behalf of a large number of unhappy people when I ask Alamy to reconsider this situation. It's farcical.

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15 minutes ago, Sultanpepa said:

Where's the improvement in live news?

 

Certainly the UK Weather shots seem now to be restricted to 4 or 5 different locations in the UK, and two in particular of course. When, according to conditions, that means uploading "another wet day in...", "cold and miserable in..." then it does make you wonder if widening the scope might of benefit. My examples are fictitious, but only just. 

 

The idea mooted by myself and others of separating out soft news still seems sensible.

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On 09/04/2019 at 16:57, Alamy said:

 

There's a backlog of applications at the moment so response times are longer than usual. Everyone will get a reply. 

 

Apologies for the delays.

 

Alamy

Thankyou ALAMY, it's much appreciated.

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7 hours ago, Sally said:

50 is very good. I have around 40 within the last 12 months. Lots of others that were used immediately after the 2 day live news period.

You think?  I've had a lot of news sales sell after the fact - one image was used twice in the last three days in the Irish Sun!  I love repeat sellers!

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I would like to push this experience in a positive direction.

 

On the The Forum board in 2018 Ian Davidson suggested a separate Live News Forum.  I feel there is a strong case for such a Forum.

 

My case is  this:-

 

The culling of news contributors came about because of the blurring of Stock and News submissions. News and stock photography are individual disiplines,

so a separation of the discussion will reinforce the separate nature of Stock and Live News photography.

 

Clearly the wish to do news photography is popular but the route to competence is unclear.  Many of our national press photographers came up through the ranks of their local paper;  this route is in decline. Alamy has a good reputation for supporting students.  Alamy is neither a college or charity, it does not have to invest reources.  Alamy does however  have an active photographic community who are generous of spirit and answer the most basic of questions with goodnature.

 

A place to asks questions promotes openess and provides clarity.  With clarity expectations can be set, in the past expectations on both sides have been disparate.

 

 

James

 

PS I am still miffed!

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said:

 

I would like to push this experience in a positive direction.

 

On the The Forum board in 2018 Ian Davidson suggested a separate Live News Forum.  I feel there is a strong case for such a Forum.

 

My case is  this:-

 

The culling of news contributors came about because of the blurring of Stock and News submissions. News and stock photography are individual disiplines,

so a separation of the discussion will reinforce the separate nature of Stock and Live News photography.

 

Clearly the wish to do news photography is popular but the route to competence is unclear.  Many of our national press photographers came up through the ranks of their local paper;  this route is in decline. Alamy has a good reputation for supporting students.  Alamy is neither a college or charity, it does not have to invest reources.  Alamy does however  have an active photographic community who are generous of spirit and answer the most basic of questions with goodnature.

 

A place to asks questions promotes openess and provides clarity.  With clarity expectations can be set, in the past expectations on both sides have been disparate.

 

 

James

 

PS I am still miffed!

 

 

 

I am not seeing much about the route to competence I am seeing people who occasionally in the course of their normal activities come across full on newsworthy stuff and who are rather peeved at having had the place they would have sent it denied to them.  I am not a news photographer - nor would I want to focus on that.  However, due to the things I do do, I actually come across actual news more frequently than Joe Public - say 5 or 6 times a year.  Now I am (I believe) competent with a camera, I read and understood the stuff on captioning headlining etc and complied with Alamys requirements.  The fact that I did not and do not chase stories and send in multiple news stuff day in day out does not detract from what I did send in and does not detract from what I will take in future.  There are numerous others in similar situations - who get stuff a few times a year and want to be able to do something with it, who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and who have been dropped without so much as a bye the bye.   I do not see anyone arguing about separating news and stock or adding in a soft news area I see people arguing about not being given any notice or warning and that the way the decisions on who to drop appear to have been made is far from the best way to make that decision.

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When I looked at Colblimp's portfolio request a few weeks ago  the first thing I thought was "it looked cold and wet" and I remember thinking I hope they pay him well for shooting that stuff. What is the average price for live news images in the UK ?

 

 

Cheers and gone

 

Shergar.

Edited by Shergar

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