NYCat Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, Allan Bell said: I have been told that the digestive system is a marvellous piece of bio engineering in that if you swallow anything sharp it will turn it round so the sharp bit is at the back and not the leading edge. Allan That is reassuring. However, one thing my dentist mentioned was going down the esophagus. Ouch. Paulette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 17 hours ago, NYCat said: Big expense, of course, but I am always willing to spend money on my physical well-being. Too bad. In the UK NHS dental treatment is capped (haha) at about £300, even for crowns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, spacecadet said: Too bad. In the UK NHS dental treatment is capped (haha) at about £300, even for crowns. Yes. Why did they take dental treatment out of the NHS. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCat Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Too bad. In the UK NHS dental treatment is capped (haha) at about £300, even for crowns. I was expecting something like this from you. I am actually glad not to be getting my treatment courtesy of the taxpayer. Someone does pay for these government benefits. Free sounds good but is not real. And, of course, in the USA we have charitable treatment for those who truly can't afford it. I understand that this is not the solution that you want. Different strokes and all that. Paulette 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Allan Bell said: Yes. Why did they take dental treatment out of the NHS. Allan Eh? They didn't. It's had charges since 1951, to limit the demand. But private fees are 4 to 5 times as much. WHen the NHS started, dental health was so poor that the treatment cost a fortune, so the fees were introduced to reduce the demand and make a contribution. You can still get free treatment if you're on a low income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, NYCat said: I was expecting something like this from you. Means- tested healthcare dependent on charity. Different strokes indeed. Edited January 8, 2022 by spacecadet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) The NHS remains the greatest thing about Great Britain without a doubt. Non-means tested high quality healthcare for all residents is what it's about and there is no stigma whatsoever about using the NHS. It is for every resident and there is no charge. The treatment I had when hospitalised with Covid in September last was excellent and the subsequent aftercare has also been fantastic. Everyone I have seen (consultants, GPs, technicians, nurses, healthcare assistants, admin staff etc) has been dedicated and caring. I can't praise these people enough. Some people have private health insurance or pay to go private as the NHS waiting lists for many procedures have been growing steadily over the years and have grown massively since the start of the pandemic. With the current wave of the Omicron variant, the system is under enormous pressure partly due to increased hospitalisations of Covid patients as well as high levels of staff absences on top of an already seriously depleted workforce. But still they soldier on - literally as some hospitals are now being supported by the military according to reports today. However, years of underfunding have led to erosion of services and dentistry was one of the early victims. At one point it was possible to easly find a dentist providing NHS-funded services where the costs were partially funded by the NHS but many dentists dropped out of that in the mid-2000s when the government (Labour at the time) introduced new contracts which proved unsatisfactory to the dentists. It became almost impossible to find an NHS dentist where I live without having to wait many months to be seen. So the inevitable consequence is paying for private treatment or suffering. Edited January 8, 2022 by MDM 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Sadly, dental care is not covered in Canada. Politicians always say they are going to do something about it. However, their hot air stops flowing after elections are over. We have some private dental insurance through my wife's pension, but it is pretty basic. Currently, I need over $3000 of dental work (crowns), but it looks as if the work may have to wait, unless of course I reach the "Platinum" level this year or I get enough of those lucrative China sales. 😁 Edited January 8, 2022 by John Mitchell 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, John Mitchell said: Sadly, dental care is not covered in Canada. Politicians always say they are going to do something about it. However, their hot air stops flowing after elections are over. We have some private dental insurance through my wife's pension, but it is pretty basic. Currently, I need over $3000 of dental work (crowns), but it looks as if the work may have to wait, unless of course I reach the "Platinum" level this year or I get enough of those lucrative China sales. 😁 Dental tourism. Some dentists here discourage it; some don't. Costa Rica has even more of it. Requirement for travel is getting tested coming and probably returning (true for the US) plus vaccination. My British friend has found a good dentist here in Jinotega. My dentists don't like dental tourism. Managua has straight up dental tourism, but I don't know how good it is. Check with Costa Rican expats for how the system works there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rebecca Ore said: Dental tourism. Some dentists here discourage it; some don't. Costa Rica has even more of it. Requirement for travel is getting tested coming and probably returning (true for the US) plus vaccination. My British friend has found a good dentist here in Jinotega. My dentists don't like dental tourism. Managua has straight up dental tourism, but I don't know how good it is. Check with Costa Rican expats for how the system works there. I've talked with my dentist about having dental work done in Mexico and CA, and he told me that he has seen some really messed up work from there. He has had patients who have had to have procedures redone after they got home to Canada. The main problem seems not to be skill but the quality of materials that are used. Tourism dentists have to cut corners in order to offer those low prices. Edited January 8, 2022 by John Mitchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 The cars here in Liverpool all have Beatles fan belts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just now, John Mitchell said: I've talked with my dentist about having dental work done in Mexico and CA, and he told me that he has seen some really messed up work from there. He has had patients that have had to have procedures redone after they got home to Canada. The main problem seems not to be skill but the quality of materials that are used. Tourism dentists have to cut corners in order to offer those low prices. My four tooth bridge is still functional a decade later, but the dentists who did the work don't do dental tourism though they have donated time to nationals needing work done who didn't have money. I'm cynical about Mexico and Costa Rica. Nicaragua has progressive import duties so cool electronics like cameras and computers and high end British made camera bags get a third the price including shipping costs tacked on by customs, and car import duties are perhaps higher. (Anything used to prepare and drink coffee is duty free). So, rich people who need a Jaguar and several iPhones pay for the free clinics and also pay into the state insurance program if they're running businesses with employees. Friend in Philadelphia went to Mexico for a tummy tuck and came back with an infection, so yeah. Cuban-trained doctors have a good reputation here, so Cuba might have dental tourism but quality of what they can get around the US restrictions might be an issue. Strategies that work in countries with low populations and many natural resources, especially lots of coal, oil, and iron ores, don't work in countries without those things. The US insists that its strategies won't fail this time, but they've failed hideously in Nicaragua and Honduras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Ed Rooney said: The cars here in Liverpool all have Beatles fan belts. And I'm sure that everyone gets by with a little help from their friends at the NHS. 👨⚕️👩⚕️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 hours ago, NYCat said: I was expecting something like this from you. I am actually glad not to be getting my treatment courtesy of the taxpayer. Someone does pay for these government benefits. Free sounds good but is not real. And, of course, in the USA we have charitable treatment for those who truly can't afford it. I understand that this is not the solution that you want. Different strokes and all that. Paulette Actually Paulette the working population in this country are paying for the NHS service all through their working lives through a scheme which was initially called "Stamp Duty". In the beginning every working person had a card which was always held by the firm they worked for and each week actual stamps were stuck in the cards and paid for out of that persons wages. No they were not postage stamps. Completely different. The stamps where bought from the government by firm then they took the money off the worker for the stamp stuck in the card. I have seen this in operation when I was just an office boy at the start of my working life back in 1960. Of course it is all done with computers now. That is the simplest explanation. Allan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 hours ago, spacecadet said: Eh? They didn't. It's had charges since 1951, to limit the demand. But private fees are 4 to 5 times as much. WHen the NHS started, dental health was so poor that the treatment cost a fortune, so the fees were introduced to reduce the demand and make a contribution. You can still get free treatment if you're on a low income. Back in the mid to late 60's it was free. I know from personal experience. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Allan Bell said: Back in the mid to late 60's it was free. I know from personal experience. Allan The US fantasy has always been that there will be free care or charity care for those who need it, but in practice, the receptionists and bookkeepers try to discourage people who have heard that a urologist in Roanoke would take patients for free. And if 50% of the population can't afford even $900 US for a bridge and other tooth repair, then it's not something that can be handled by private charity. Telling people that they have to sign over homestead rights to be seen in a hospital is fine if people needing help don't own homes, I suppose. The things like Adult Basic in Philadelphia were funded from fines paid by the tobacco companies for lying about the dangers of cigarettes. And a lot of doctors won't take Medicaid patients or Adult Basic patients, or even some HMOs used by businesses. Dental care at teaching hospitals is possible but the teeth that I was told had to be filled are still serving me. My guess is the student needed the practice more than I needed fillings for those front teeth. Finally got the work I did need to get done here in 2011, private care but not at US price levels. A lot of "But there are ways to take care of people in dire need" is just wishful thinking that I've never found working in the real world. As a SF writer, I've heard about people who died rather than risk losing their houses, and medical costs are the main reason for bankruptcy in the US. The US has the worse health outcomes among industrialized richer nations. Everyone else has a single payer system and considers health care a human right. Everyone pays in; everyone benefits, even if for the rich it's indirect (having servants and workers who aren't working while desperately ill or missing work). My impression is that the quality of doctors and dentists in Nicaragua is uneven, but I've never met a doctor or dentist here who was as mercenary as many US doctors. My guess is that much of this extraordinary expense is driven by the health insurance companies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty LaRue Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 7 hours ago, NYCat said: I was expecting something like this from you. I am actually glad not to be getting my treatment courtesy of the taxpayer. Someone does pay for these government benefits. Free sounds good but is not real. And, of course, in the USA we have charitable treatment for those who truly can't afford it. I understand that this is not the solution that you want. Different strokes and all that. Paulette That’s true. Once or twice a year in Oklahoma City, dentists offered free dental care clinics for the ones who couldn’t afford it. Dozens of dentists volunteered and many people got free dental care. Those clinics go on all over the country. For eye care, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said: That’s true. Once or twice a year in Oklahoma City, dentists offered free dental care clinics for the ones who couldn’t afford it. Dozens of dentists volunteered and many people got free dental care. Those clinics go on all over the country. For eye care, also. When I had a cataract, my insurance company for catastrophic insurance wouldn't cover it because it was a preexisting condition. My ophthalmologist knew a doctor who'd been doing free cataract surgeries in Central America who decided to give free operations to patients with cataracts who fell between the cracks (too much money for Medicaid, not regularly employed or employed without health insurance. His network of doctors had so many people recommended to him that he only did the surgeries for people living in his home county. I finally got a cataract surgery when I was paying for an HMO where I worked as a contract employee (no paid benefits). Unilateral cataract, so not blind blind, but was basically unable to drive at night in the suburbs. It was like having a very dirty lens on a camera, lots of flare. One resident expat here had cataract surgery done in the private sector and was happy with what was done. Another foreigner went to a Cuban team that was doing assembly line cataract surgeries and seemed to have been happy with the results. Cost was either something like $10 US or free. Rural areas are undeserved anywhere. The majority of doctors in Nicaragua practice in Managua. New MDs don't want to go out to the autonomous regions because they might be attacked by jaguars or snakes (or cultural irrelevance). Rural Virginia got doctors who were there to raise horses and pretend to be farmers. I doubt one or two days a year of free clinics would be sufficient for need in a lot of places, even in the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 14 hours ago, MDM said: However, years of underfunding have led to erosion of services and dentistry was one of the early victims. At one point it was possible to easly find a dentist providing NHS-funded services where the costs were partially funded by the NHS but many dentists dropped out of that in the mid-2000s when the government (Labour at the time) introduced new contracts which proved unsatisfactory to the dentists. It became almost impossible to find an NHS dentist where I live without having to wait many months to be seen. So the inevitable consequence is paying for private treatment or suffering. This seems very variable- OH's dentist went private a while ago and threw out its NHS patients, but in 2009 when I hadn't been to the dentist for years and it started to show, a new practice had started up who were happy to take on NHS patients. It seems that you can make a business out of NHS fees if you're very efficient- the dentist usually gets paid somewhat more than the patient contribution. They do try to add on extras such as plaque removal privately (well worth it) but you're free to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 5 hours ago, spacecadet said: This seems very variable- OH's dentist went private a while ago and threw out its NHS patients, but in 2009 when I hadn't been to the dentist for years and it started to show, a new practice had started up who were happy to take on NHS patients. It seems that you can make a business out of NHS fees if you're very efficient- the dentist usually gets paid somewhat more than the patient contribution. They do try to add on extras such as plaque removal privately (well worth it) but you're free to say no. Most doctors here, and all new graduate doctors, have public service in the mornings and private practice in the afternoon or evenings. One of the cardiologists I've gone to did this split. Other one is in his sixties or seventies, had Covid during the first wave, and only sees patients he's seen before and is retired from the free sector. Some clinics and hospitals are INSS/private and don't take free patients. Dental seems to leave a lot of stainless steel teeth afterward, not sure if or how the free provision of dental works, but prices in the private sector are around a fifth or so of what US prices are. Jinotega has a number of doctors and dentists (climate is wonderful and Jinotega is the commercial center for a large agricultural area). Some appear to live very well (I have a photo of an ultrasound doctor's house); my neighbors in the new house have two cars for two doctors. Two other doctors are renting the house I used to rent, so either saving or not as well off as the doctors in the new house, much less the ultrasound doctor. I have a dental clinic next door, specializing in periodontal. I think he and his family live over the clinic, which is common, but with some exceptions. I've only had one job ever in the US that had a dental insurance option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, spacecadet said: This seems very variable- OH's dentist went private a while ago and threw out its NHS patients, but in 2009 when I hadn't been to the dentist for years and it started to show, a new practice had started up who were happy to take on NHS patients. It seems that you can make a business out of NHS fees if you're very efficient- the dentist usually gets paid somewhat more than the patient contribution. They do try to add on extras such as plaque removal privately (well worth it) but you're free to say no. The dentist we had been using went private, but we were able to get fixed up with a NHS alternative. Been using them for years now and no complaints. I would agree with MDM that NHS treatment is generally very good, I've had a few hospital visits in recent years and have been impressed with the level of care. Friendly staff, spotless and modern facilities. There is a problem with waiting lists at present, largely as a consequence of Covid, but it would be suicide for any political party to attempt to dismantle the NHS. Edited January 9, 2022 by Bryan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) -22C real feel this morning (7am), and getting colder as day goes on. that's the post. Edited January 11, 2022 by meanderingemu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Nelson Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 -14 F on the thermometer here this morning. But at least the sun is shining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Temperature in Jinotega is metaphorically freezing: 66 F. High fifties F later this week. Everyone will be bundled up in parkas in the mornings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, meanderingemu said: -22C real feel this morning (7am), and getting colder as day goes on. that's the post. -29 here this morning, but up to 0 tomorrow. A quick deep freeze day. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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