Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (although thread from which this comment was lifted is closed, this is a distinct legal tangent worthy of discussion?) The One They Call Janos said: " A photographer on Alamy told me that he ended up being sued by an offended woman because he had labelled/keyworded her in one of his pics as obese!" now wa-aaaaaa-ait a minute !! was the subject obese or not obese??? can a subject be obese and successfully sue for being tagged "obese" ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Can't answer your legal question. However, I recently removed the tags "obese" and "obesity" from a candid image of an obese (for sure) man standing in line at a food truck. I've also removed those tags from other images, even if the people in them didn't look grossly overweight, which I guess is what "obese" means. It's probably a good idea to avoid "overweight" and "fat" as well IMO. People find terms like these insulting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) Not if they are obese. Someone can only sue for defamation if you knowingly called them obese and they aren't. You can't be sued for being truthful. Well, you could be sued but I can't see any lawyer that would take the case if they were truly obese. Jill Edited June 29, 2023 by Jill Morgan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeRay Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Buyers search for obese so in my mind that makes tagging ok. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsyCollins Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Obese is a precise medical term for a person with a BMI of over 30. If you apply it to someone who isn't medically obese then you'd be in the wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Estall Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 (edited) To be honest, I don't think I would be comfortable making even a small profit from anybody being overweight/ Obese or whatever. In the UK we define Obese as over 30 BMI, but I'm not at all sure this would be universally agreed. Edited June 30, 2023 by Robert M Estall 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca Ore Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Probably better to use plus size, if you are going for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 6 hours ago, PatsyCollins said: Obese is a precise medical term for a person with a BMI of over 30. If you apply it to someone who isn't medically obese then you'd be in the wrong. That's true, so it's probably best to make sure that the subject looks very overweight (or get a model release) if you're going to use "obese" in the caption or keywords. Is it worth the possible hassles, though, for a possible few dollars if you're lucky? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 It seems very disrespectful and would anyone use such a picture without a model release? Surely if you use 'obese' then every good keyworder would have to throw in 'fat', 'very fat', 'fatty' etc. Not for me. Mind you I have similar crises of conscience with 'old' so then there's 'elderly', 'retired' and I suppose the keyworder's friend 'seniors'. Has that word, much like 'plus size' I suppose, just been invented for keywording? I've never heard it used in normal conversation in the UK, perhaps it is in the US. "Excuse me, where's the exit?", "It's just over there by those two Seniors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alamy Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Hi All, We're just hopping on the chat here to add some guidance that you might find useful around this thread, and ask that the conversation is kept to being mature, respectful and fact based. There are some basics here (which we know you're all up to speed on, but it links to some extra guidelines on our Contributor Help Pages about using personal information):https://www.alamy.com/blog/tips-for-your-captions-from-the-sales-team As always, we ask contributors to be mindful that keywords on their photos are accurate and relevant. Having said that there are further things to think about regarding GDPR:https://www.alamy.com/blog/what-does-gdpr-mean-for-stock-photographers This article leads you to the IPSO Code of practice, much of which can be applied when thinking about how you caption and tag images that include people, and certain sensitivities to be aware of:https://www.ipso.co.uk/editors-code-of-practice/ Finally we have written a recent blog on good keywording practice when it comes to inclusivity, which is important to many customers in this respect because they'll be searching under these terms: https://www.alamy.com/blog/how-to-use-inclusive-language-in-your-captions-and-tags Thanks Sophie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flo Smith Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 It shouldn't be but everything seems to be libelous now, even the Thought Police can get you for thinking it! Next you won't be able to put woman, better check on their gender first. If she was obese then why not. How did she see the tags/keywords anyway or did they put obese in the caption? Or did the person using the image put obese in the their caption? Mostly on the telly they shoot from the shoulders down so you don't see faces. People seem to be over sensitive about obesity to the point that even doctors can't say it, hence the reason the NHS is being crushed by it! What if you put thin or short, someone might be sensitve about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 The main question is what words do clients use to search for images. If they're using woke language, then your keywords should have woke keywords. Unless you don't want to sell to people who use a certain language (or think a certain way). This is different from when you don't want your images to be used in a certain way. Like in a derogatory way in the case of an obese person. wim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxzoomy Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Lol, I'm only 71, can I sue if someone tags a photo of me as elderly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, zxzoomy said: Lol, I'm only 71, can I sue if someone tags a photo of me as elderly? I'd say not. A true statement can't be defamatory, and however much you disagree (I do, OH is 71 and I wouldn't call her that by any standard) it's widely used that way. My bus pass account even uses the word, and I'm 62. I have one image with "obese" in the tags, of two very fat people, from behind, and it's licensed in Slovenia. I am relaxed about it as it neither does, nor is it meant to, identify them. Edited June 30, 2023 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Would "fatso" be better than obese? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Estall Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) I once had a very skinny cat endearingly called Fatso. That was because when he was a kitten he was much rounder than his rather runty brother named Ratso (it was the time of Midnight Cowboy) and I wanted a name which rhymed. Ratso grew up to be a hunky hunter and Fatso slimmed down nicely. But to answer your question Edo, "fatso" is definitely an insult "obese" is probably not far behind, I was called "shorty" sometimes in Canada and "short-ass" a few times in UK. I'm 5ft 7in (same as Tom Cruise). Is that fair? Should I sue? Edited July 2, 2023 by Robert M Estall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierre rochon Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Is "gravitationally challenged" acceptable? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 20 hours ago, ReeRay said: Buyers search for obese so in my mind that makes tagging ok. There are a lot of 'politically incorrect' or worse terms a portion of potential buyers might search on. That wouldn't make me include these terms. I wouldn't want that sort of person using my images anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Cryptoprocta said: I wouldn't want that sort of person using my images anyway. Feel free to direct the riff-raff towards mine... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 49 minutes ago, spacecadet said: I'd say not. A true statement can't be defamatory, and however much you disagree (I do, OH is 71 and I wouldn't call her that by any standard) it's widely used that way. My bus pass account even uses the word, and I'm 62. I have one image with "obese" in the tags, of two very fat people, from behind, and it's licensed in Slovenia. I am relaxed about it as it neither does, nor is it meant to, identify them. I think that's probably the best solution if you want to document something like obesity -- i.e. don't show people's faces. Hope you didn't put "big behinds" in the keywords. 🙃 P.S. I'm 74, and I don't think of myself as elderly quite yet, but I'm working on it. 👴 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, John Morrison said: Feel free to direct the riff-raff towards mine... I'm pretty sure on a quick shuftie that you don't use the sort of tags I was thinking about. Edited June 30, 2023 by Cryptoprocta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 51 minutes ago, Cryptoprocta said: I'm pretty sure on a quick shuftie that you don't use the sort of tags I was thinking about. Haha! But do the clients? wim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspics Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Along with whatever keywords you use, maybe have images of overweight people marked as editorial only so they are only used in an editorial context, not advertising. I would think photos without faces are more saleable in this genre. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansos Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 On 29/06/2023 at 22:38, Rebecca Ore said: Probably better to use plus size, if you are going for that. If someone is feeling fragile, or prone to taking out a lawsuit, I think any reference to size, or anything for that matter, could be dangerous. What degree of cost/benefit are we willing to accept for our photos? If I tag someone on a demo in London as being X/Y/Z and they object, they could, if they wanted to, sue my arse for defamation, could they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan_Andison Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) I feel it's somewhat sad that this has to be asked. I mean, if it's accurate (which is the important bit) then it is a descriptive word that is used by the medical profession if someone has a BMI of over 30. So, as far as I'm concerned it's acceptable provided it's accurate but maybe it could be used like... "A larger man that would be considered obese by the medical profession due to a 30+ BMI." Just basically making it a matter of fact rather than sounding like a personal opinion. Again, it's sad that we cannot talk openly about issues without someone either cancelling you, reporting you, sacking you if your view doesn't match criteria setup by a certain group of people. I'm hoping at some point that the world can remember we're all adults who should be able to communicate with each other in a free and open manner and while we don't have to be rude, we shouldn't take offence at the slightest of things. I seen a YouTube clip of Rowan Atkinson recently talking about section 5 amendment on free speech in the UK. Made me laugh and gave me hope! Mr Bean for PM 🤣 Edited July 7, 2023 by Duncan_Andison 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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