Reimar Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Sorry guys, I'm not in the page 25 club any more - I've been negatively uprated to page 26 since last night. I can't help thinking I'm being got-at. You may think I'm paranoid, but you'd be paranoid too if everyone was out to get you. To get back in, just uncheck RF in the search and your back to page 25. Not much help I know. Move some to a new pseudo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Palmer Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 If it wasn't before, it's clear to me now that CTR isn't that important to ranking. Last fall I started a small secondary pseudo of Mexico images taken with an APS-C sensor. I've never been totally satisfied with them technically and didn't want to risk failing QC so I never uploaded more. That pseudo has a CTR of 1.39 but few views, no sales and it just dropped from the bottom of page 20 to the top of 21. My primary pseudo, started a year and a half ago, has been on page 20 since I started BHZ last year. That was understandable when the CTR was between 0 and 0.15 but starting 6 months ago I started making sales, my views increased and my CTR has consistently been equal to or above Alamy's average CTR. I had assumed this would be reflected in at least a slight improvement in position with the rerank. Instead I dropped a half page. Some of the comments above mention editing to improve position, are we talking about deletion of images, editing keywords, or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Pixel Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 So I made one BHZ image and now I can see it in search results on the page 1 in NEW category and on the page 21 in Creative and Relevant categories. And what next? Wait half a year and find again? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Clemson Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Sorry guys, I'm not in the page 25 club any more - I've been negatively uprated to page 26 since last night. I can't help thinking I'm being got-at. You may think I'm paranoid, but you'd be paranoid too if everyone was out to get you. To get back in, just uncheck RF in the search and your back to page 25. Not much help I know. Move some to a new pseudo? Thanks for trying Reimar! Unchecking RF does indeed take me back to page 25, but then again there are then only 25 pages in total after taking out the RF! . The great irony of my drop to the last page of BHZ is that it's only last month I got my first ever email from Alamy congratulating me on being in their top 500. True, this achievement is on the strength of one particular very large sale some months ago, and this sale has yet to clear, but it does leave me shaking my head in bemusement that I go from champ to chump in such a very short space of time. I'm not going to play around with pseudos because I don't have any obvious natural division between potentially good and poor sellers in my collection. The big sale I had (possibly, if it ever clears) was a top candidate for 'low selling pseudo' if ever there was one, which reinforces my experience and belief that you never can tell for sure what will sell. If we are stuck with this ranking then I, like Martin (above), will have to re-evaluate my business priorities, I can't afford to put lots of time and effort into pictures destined for Alamy (my only agency for editorial work) if they are going to be near the bottom of every search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 If it wasn't before, it's clear to me now that CTR isn't that important to ranking. Last fall I started a small secondary pseudo of Mexico images taken with an APS-C sensor. I've never been totally satisfied with them technically and didn't want to risk failing QC so I never uploaded more. That pseudo has a CTR of 1.39 but few views, no sales and it just dropped from the bottom of page 20 to the top of 21. My primary pseudo, started a year and a half ago, has been on page 20 since I started BHZ last year. That was understandable when the CTR was between 0 and 0.15 but starting 6 months ago I started making sales, my views increased and my CTR has been equal to or above Alamy's average CTR. I had assumed this would be reflected in at least a slight improvement in position. Instead I dropped a half page. Some of the comments above mention editing to improve position, are we talking about deletion of images, editing keywords, or something else? In my case: first removing non selling and non-zoomed images to a different pseudo. Then have a long hard look at them and deleting some. Some remain in that pseudo; some have made it back into my main pseudo. I start with a lightbox and move stuff in and out until I'm satisfied. (rant mode) I wish Alamy would integrate lightboxes in the Manage Images system. Actually before we had an edit button under every image, while it was not batch, it worked reasonably fast. The good thing about a lightbox is that you can move images there from a real search: You can see where they are on a page or on what page for real client searches. The lightboxes have been around since Alamy started, but everyone who hasn't looked at them for some time, should have a trial run, because there have been some really excellent changes, the best being the ability to move images at random. This is what Manage Images 2.1 should have been. (\rant mode) After that I move them to a pseudo or delete. This works best from one pseudo in Manage Images 2.4, so I move them to one pseudo called mypseudo edit or mypseudo delete. Note to self: delete more. Maybe at least one image a day? The procedure is the same for (rare) large scale keywording operations. Mostly I re-keyword on the fly. Like just 10 minutes ago I missed one of my images from a search and noticed subway was missing. Metro metropolitain underground were all there. So now I will check all my images for those and see if I had that blind spot more than once. If I have no time right now, I will make a note of it. I do keep track of everything that has been sold and has been zoomed, with, you guessed it, lightboxes. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Palmer Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 +1 wim I like the idea of using lightboxes Wim, although in my case it would be far more expedient to move the zoomed and sold images to a new lightbox or pseudo. Then I purge everything else? Sadly that would all but close down my Alamy portfolio. I'll start with the lightbox then consider my next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi2ap Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Ok so my rank is middle of p19 - well it's a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 It just doesn't make sense. CTR has fallen from 85 to 31 since Aug. Yet I've climbed 4 pages? Anyone else seen a decline in CTR over the last few months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Pixel Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 So, who can tell me, what to look at. I am on the 1 page of NEW and 21 of Relevant/Creative. And what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 So, who can tell me, what to look at. I am on the 1 page of NEW and 21 of Relevant/Creative. And what? Hi Broken Pixel, Having put "BHZ" into the Essential keywords of just one RM image for each of your pseudonyms, put BHZ in the search box, take the tick out of the RF box, and set the search to "Relevant"; not new or creative. With 120 images per page you then find your image and see where you are in the pecking order. Alamy puts new members and new pseudonyms in at an average rank - remember this is likely to be around p17-p18 out of about 25, as it is an average rank for ALL Alamy photographers, not just those who play the BHZ game who are generally the more enthusiastic Kumar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Pixel Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thank you very much, Kumar! ) My rank now is on p21. Let us see what will happen in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 I like the idea of using lightboxes Wim, although in my case it would be far more expedient to move the zoomed and sold images to a new lightbox or pseudo. Then I purge everything else? Sadly that would all but close down my Alamy portfolio. I'll start with the lightbox then consider my next step. I would keep them until I was sure nobody wanted them, but in a different low scoring pseudo. The best go in a best of pseudo and the rest in a main pseudo. That is if you want to play the pseudo game. Otherwise: keep one pseudo only with only the best. Even then I would keep a waiting for deletion pseudo, just in case I have a change of mind, see people searching for it etc. When your pseudo moves up, you could then repopulate your pseudo with some from your low pseudo, that you feel are undeservedly there. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clarke Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Also on page 21 out of 25 having searched on the same criteria as suggested by Doc (thanks). Only a couple of months in with only 300+ images (and no sales) so couldn't expect any better I suppose. Not sure what all the lightbox references are - do you just do the same search every now and then or best to use lightbox in some way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This seems to be one of the biggest shakeups for a long time. Poor Ken Livingstone and the water vole have slipped, as have mine, a bit. There has either been a radical change or lots of new people playing the game. Some aren't following the rules though - LOTS of pseudos with more than one image. It isn't a competition people - there is no prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This is my first time playing the BHZ game, so I'm really late to the party. Hope there's some wine and cheese left. My main pseudo, which generates almost all my sales, shows up on page one, row eight (Relevant search), which I understand is a good thing. I also have a secondary pseudo -- with less than 500 images -- that I'm still looking for. This pseudo had a nice textbook sale this month, and it often has a higher CTR than my main one. So I'm sure it's in there somewhere... UPDATE: I've now combed all 26 pages of BHZ search results several times (starting to go cross-eyed) and I can't find my secondary pseudo, yet the image shows up when I do a BHZ search of my collection. Does this ever happen? UPDATE UPDATE: Looks like I cried wolf. I finally unearthed my junior pseudo on page 21, which is not so hot. Guess I need to do some homework on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelal Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Not worth worrying too much about where you are placed in the BHZ thingy. For sure if you are on page one you will get many more views than if you are on page 21, but I have found that I get more sales when I am higher up. I think there are many other factors in play and BHZ should be regarded as a bit of fun, and not taken too seriously. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffydd Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 My results are in: I have an image from one pseudonym on page 4. That pseudonym has a CTR of 0.69 for the last year or so. Another pseudonym features on page 20 (CTR 1.28), as does another with CTR 0.00. (These two images are right next to each other.) The crucial fact, I guess, is that all of my sales for this last year have come from the pseudonym appearing on page 4 All confirming what we know already: CTR isn't necessarily related to sales. And it's sales that count (on more than one level). Question: Should I move all of my images into this page 4 pseudonym? (Page positions based on 120 per page, RM only, relevant) Or just delete that page 20 pseudo with everything in it? In any case I would take an honest hard look at the images in both and try to decide what it is that makes the good one successful and the other one unsuccessful. CTR 1.28 is twice as high as my #1 pseudo. So you're doing something right there. I started selling after some serious editing. Your collection isn't too big, so you can still see what is good about the good ones. Why not for a practice test put 15 of your best images in a lightbox. Look at them for a day. Now from every subject or occasion that you have on line, pick the best one and put those in a lightbox. Now do the same for all your sales and zooms and see what the numbers are and what differences there are. (A best image is not always a camera club best image.) Ask someone else (not a photographer) for comment. Or post here (lots of photographers). wim Thanks for your advice, Wim. I will take a careful look, but I am not sure I am going to delete any images. My lowest performing pseudonym has just 37 images and, since 1st Nov 2013 has been viewed just 42 times, with no recorded zooms. However, 3 of these images have been licensed in the past. The real problem is that, as others have said, we just don't know how the algorithms work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Not worth worrying too much about where you are placed in the BHZ thingy. For sure if you are on page one you will get many more views than if you are on page 21, but I have found that I get more sales when I am higher up. I think there are many other factors in play and BHZ should be regarded as a bit of fun, and not taken too seriously. Patrick For sure, what really counts is having the image that a particular buyer wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 As mentioned, this is the first time I've tried the BHZ thing, and I'm wondering if there is an obvious correlation between the number of images in a pseudonym and BHZ ranking -- i.e. do pseudos with more images always show up higher in BHZ searches than those with fewer images? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydingo Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 . The real problem is that, as others have said, we just don't know how the algorithms work. Purzakly!! Alamy consistently make the comment that bhz is not very strongly correlated to rank and is at best an amusement. I think I'd rather spend time thinking about tomorrow's photos than worrying about bhz "results" achieved by shuffling yesterday's. dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 For sure, what really counts is having the image that a particular buyer wants. +1 Just licensed what I regarded as being one of the weakest of a small batch of images, but it clearly ticked the boxes for the buyer. Difficult to second guess the requirements of a photo editor, but people, words, stories etc all appear to count, just as much as composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 "people, words, stories etc all appear to count," not a suprise, surely? km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 BHZ is a bit like trainspotting. It has little relevance to reality but it enables people who have not enough to do to discuss its lack of relevance with other people who have not enough to do. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 BHZ is crucial km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 As mentioned, this is the first time I've tried the BHZ thing, and I'm wondering if there is an obvious correlation between the number of images in a pseudonym and BHZ ranking -- i.e. do pseudos with more images always show up higher in BHZ searches than those with fewer images? It's usually the opposite: have more sales and zooms, but keep your collection small. Remember that a healthy pseudo does get not that much zooms. It will get a lot of views though, which seems to get punished by the current algorithm. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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