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Oversupplied subjects?


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I mean that you should be able to split out the images that were originally sent in for News against those that have gone through the "normal" QC process. That is what I mean by Creative side and News side.

 

News images bypass QC whereas normal subs don't. Yes, I know that you can get sales later on from old news images BUT there are those of us who are creating specifically on a creative/ commercial basis.

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I mean that you should be able to split out the images that were originally sent in for News against those that have gone through the "normal" QC process. That is what I mean by Creative side and News side.

 

News images bypass QC whereas normal subs don't. Yes, I know that you can get sales later on from old news images BUT there are those of us who are creating specifically on a creative/ commercial basis.

 

I'm not sure that it's that simple Jools.

 

I shoot mainly editorial images but most of my work is not uploaded via the news route. If you look at what the papers use, and in particular their web sites, you can see regular employment of secondary editorial imagery. For example someone goes into hospital for a regular treatment but something goes wrong. The first line image would be a shot of the unfortunate person (possibly unobtainable), but the secondary shot would be of the hospital or even a sign outside the hospital. This is just one example, but a study of the papers will reveal the multitude of secondary shots that are regularly used.

 

These images generally need to be well thought out, properly exposed, and processed with care, but not many would come under my definition of creative.

 

I suspect that "it has sold before" has a major influence on selection to the current  Creative list.

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These images generally need to be well thought out, properly exposed, and processed with care, but not many would come under my definition of creative.

 

I suspect that "it has sold before" has a major influence on selection to the current  Creative list.

 

 

Yes, I have several images not thought of as creative from the beginning (to me that would mean person / property released) on the creative list in specific searches. They are usually best sellers or have sold at least once.

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Back to the original topic, wouldn't a popular image subject/term only be considered oversupplied if the # of images far outweighed the need for that subject by customers?   e.g. I notice in A of A, some cities with lots of images also have lots of searches, "New York" has 268 pages of searches, "London" has 590 pages of customer searches in the past year, with many searches having multiple UCOs.   (by comparison, Vancouver has only 24 pages of searches, sigh)

 

Maria

 

I'm a New York based photographer so most of my Alamy images were shot in New York. Even with 1.85M images available of New York I still seem to make a fair number of sales. The problem, if there really is one, is that many of those 1.85M images seem to be sparcely captioned touristy images shot from popular sightseeing spots.  By comparison, most if not all, of my zoomed images tend to be much more specific locations, activities and people. I'm sure the same is true for any city that has a large tourist industry.

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Back to the original topic, wouldn't a popular image subject/term only be considered oversupplied if the # of images far outweighed the need for that subject by customers?   e.g. I notice in A of A, some cities with lots of images also have lots of searches, "New York" has 268 pages of searches, "London" has 590 pages of customer searches in the past year, with many searches having multiple UCOs.   (by comparison, Vancouver has only 24 pages of searches, sigh)

 

Maria

 

I'm a New York based photographer so most of my Alamy images were shot in New York. Even with 1.85M images available of New York I still seem to make a fair number of sales. The problem, if there really is one, is that many of those 1.85M images seem to be sparcely captioned touristy images shot from popular sightseeing spots.  By comparison, most if not all, of my zoomed images tend to be much more specific locations, activities and people. I'm sure the same is true for any city that has a large tourist industry.

 

 

And again this fills in things I have said. There is a huge difference between those of us that are doing this 100% of our time and those of us that are not.

 

It's easy to get the tourist type shots but beyond that?

 

I was in Italy a couple of weeks ago. Whenever I am going somewhere I always research my location both publicly and private places. If needs be, I make contact before I go to arrange to get to places that I know that will give me something beyond what the weekend warrior is going to get.

 

What did I get? Access beyond where the public could go. The public got a nice view but with a nice metal grill in the way of getting any decent images of a city I was in. The images I now have are without this grill in the way.

 

You need to work at this. This isn't the local camera club. This is a job that requires going above and beyond to get things that others haven't got. It's a dog eat dog world out there so shape up.

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Back to the original topic, wouldn't a popular image subject/term only be considered oversupplied if the # of images far outweighed the need for that subject by customers?   e.g. I notice in A of A, some cities with lots of images also have lots of searches, "New York" has 268 pages of searches, "London" has 590 pages of customer searches in the past year, with many searches having multiple UCOs.   (by comparison, Vancouver has only 24 pages of searches, sigh)

 

Maria

 

I'm a New York based photographer so most of my Alamy images were shot in New York. Even with 1.85M images available of New York I still seem to make a fair number of sales. The problem, if there really is one, is that many of those 1.85M images seem to be sparcely captioned touristy images shot from popular sightseeing spots.  By comparison, most if not all, of my zoomed images tend to be much more specific locations, activities and people. I'm sure the same is true for any city that has a large tourist industry.

 

 

And again this fills in things I have said. There is a huge difference between those of us that are doing this 100% of our time and those of us that are not.

 

It's easy to get the tourist type shots but beyond that?

 

I was in Italy a couple of weeks ago. Whenever I am going somewhere I always research my location both publicly and private places. If needs be, I make contact before I go to arrange to get to places that I know that will give me something beyond what the weekend warrior is going to get.

 

What did I get? Access beyond where the public could go. The public got a nice view but with a nice metal grill in the way of getting any decent images of a city I was in. The images I now have are without this grill in the way.

 

You need to work at this. This isn't the local camera club. This is a job that requires going above and beyond to get things that others haven't got. It's a dog eat dog world out there so shape up.

 

I don't think it's a question of there being a huge difference between those who are doing it 100% and those who are not.  I think it's the difference between a professional and non-professional attitude.  Research before (and after) shooting, arranging access, rigorously editing the resulting images to meet the requirements of buyers all speak of a professional mindset no matter whether the photographer is full or part time. Again, mere duration of experience does not imply enhanced competence.  As the old adage would have it: is that 10 years experience you've got, or 1 year repeated 10 times?  The professional - part or full time - learns and continuously applies their learning.  The non-professional doesn't.  As a full time photographer with a professional attitude you obviously have more time to learn and practice your craft - and your results demonstrate this.  But part timers can do as well, if more slowly, providing that professional attitude is present.

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I am proud of the fact that I started out in my university camera club. I turned semi professional photographer, and paid my way through university, using the camera club and student newspaper darkrooms.

 

Everyone starts somewhere.

 

Amateurs have nothing to be ashamed of. Lots of fresh ideas from amateurs. The english word amateur is from the latin word "amator" meaning in english "lover".

 

It is not about producing trophy images. Think like an amateur and love your subject, so you can produce images with feeling.

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Curated collections cost a lot to maintain, and it would be the photographers who pay. Instead of 50%, we would be looking at 20-30% of the gross. Someone has to pay those people to look at every single image submitted.

 

 

Not necessarily. Curated collections, yes, there's a cost to maintain, as with any business model. But that doesn't mean the photographer gets less than 50%. There are libraries out there that offer 50% commission, and do the keywording for you. And licence the images for an appropriate price to pay for it all, and be profitable to both parties.

 

Oversupplied subjects....... it doesn't take too long to whittle down by being more specific when searching, as fotoDogue mentions in their post about NYC.

 

Alamy is great ...to me in the UK it's a bit like Wilko's !  (a high-street chain which sells all sorts of stuff for the home). Whenever I need something and I think 'where shall I get that ?', I go to Wilko's and they have it. Probably I'd imagine when picture researchers come here !

 
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Seriously, I give up at times on here! I think from now on I'll take to just reading the forum and not bothering to offering anything up anymore.

 

I think it would be a shame if you leave because some people disagree with you. All sorts of opinions and ideas show up here and that is one of the values of the forum. I think expecting to be able to come up with the words to change other people can be very frustrating. You are a talented and hard-working photographer and I like to hear your ideas even if I may not always be convinced you are right.

 

Paulette

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Seriously, I give up at times on here! I think from now on I'll take to just reading the forum and not bothering to offering anything up anymore.

 

I think it would be a shame if you leave because some people disagree with you. All sorts of opinions and ideas show up here and that is one of the values of the forum. I think expecting to be able to come up with the words to change other people can be very frustrating. You are a talented and hard-working photographer and I like to hear your ideas even if I may not always be convinced you are right.

 

Paulette

 

 

Paulette, thanks for that but I just don't think that people are really seeing the wood for the trees. The fact that one of my last posts attracted -5 points says that something is wrong.

 

I have been down the road of trying to do the numbers game along with the let's see what sticks game. They do not work and people are just kidding themselves if they think it does.

 

One of the problems is that because of digital, and I started with digital, is that cameras have now become so wide spread that anyone and everyone thinks they are a photographer. I do agree with the sentiment above that you get a lot of people saying they are pros but when you look at their work it leaves much to be desired. The same goes for amateurs in that there are a lot that really they should be the pros.

 

And I will say it again. This at the end of the day is a job like any other. It is a job that requires skill and judgement along with all the technical traits. With people simply filling up places like Alamy with what amount to snapshots dilutes the market place.

 

The same can be said for similars. I just took a look at someone's portal and in one line there are 6 images that are virtually the same. One would have sufficed with the others achievable by cropping.

 

What gets me at times here is the attitude of some who think they are the bees knees. Sorry, I think that for now is best I stick to reading the forum and not commenting. 

 

I do have a lot to offer people and there are some on here who can vouch for that as we have met in person. But this subject goes to show to me that people are not stopping and thinking anymore.

 

John asked a serious question and I have provided a serious answer. It may not be liked but unfortunately it needs to be heeded. I'm not in the business of upsetting anyone but I'm sure others would disagree.

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Seriously, I give up at times on here! I think from now on I'll take to just reading the forum and not bothering to offering anything up anymore.

 

I think it would be a shame if you leave because some people disagree with you. All sorts of opinions and ideas show up here and that is one of the values of the forum. I think expecting to be able to come up with the words to change other people can be very frustrating. You are a talented and hard-working photographer and I like to hear your ideas even if I may not always be convinced you are right.

 

Paulette

 

 The fact that one of my last posts attracted -5 points says that something is wrong.

 

I haven't dished out any reds but what might be causing it is the reference to Weekend Warriors. There is a negative inference to that and dismisses some excellent photographers.

 

Many pro's started off part time and we all had to work our way up to a certain standard. None of us were born with it.

 

We all know part time shooters who are better technically than some full time photographers. It's just they choose to keep their passion as a hobby.

 

I firmly believe a part timer can shoot with a Pro mindset (Technically, Commercially, Personal Conduct etc). 

 

I'd like to see you stay contributing to the forums.

 

Michael

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Getting back on topic yet again!

 

1.  Yes popular world subjects are over saturated.But sometimes fresh up to date images might be required.

2. That still leaves many many subjects under represented for beginners,students,amateurs,professionals and not forgetting the weekenders to fill the gaps.

 

 

 

I am proud of the fact that I started out in my university camera club. I turned semi professional photographer, and paid my way through university, using the camera club and student newspaper darkrooms.
 
Everyone starts somewhere.
 
Amateurs have nothing to be ashamed of. Lots of fresh ideas from amateurs. The english word amateur is from the latin word "amator" meaning in english "lover".
 
It is not about producing trophy images. Think like an amateur and love your subject, so you can produce images with feeling.

 

+1

 

 

Regards

Craig

 

Proud to be a weekender.

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London; New York; Paris; Amsterdam.

;-)

 

Oh and cats, but everybody knows you cannot have enough cats.

 

wim

Where is my camera and two cats, I have work to do.  Since they are my cats the pics could be RF.

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 What are some other oversupplied subjects?

 

'woman eating salad' = 13,173 images.

 

 

spaghetti = 35,408

 

 

Less spaghetti? I have two shots on page one. But than Edo, the ex-Romano, knows spaghetti.  :)

 

The problem comes from two conflicting goals: We all want larger collections, and we all want to upload only the best images. 

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London; New York; Paris; Amsterdam.

;-)

 

Oh and cats, but everybody knows you cannot have enough cats.

 

wim

Where is my camera and two cats, I have work to do.  Since they are my cats the pics could be RF.

 

 

Now get your cats to London; NYC and Amsterdam! ;-)

Maybe I should start a rent-a-cat agency.

The only thing against that: I have no cats (anymore).

 

wim

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London; New York; Paris; Amsterdam.

;-)

 

Oh and cats, but everybody knows you cannot have enough cats.

 

wim

Where is my camera and two cats, I have work to do.  Since they are my cats the pics could be RF.

 

 

Now get your cats to London; NYC and Amsterdam! ;-)

Maybe I should start a rent-a-cat agency.

The only thing against that: I have no cats (anymore).

 

wim

 

 

Cats eating spaghetti in Amsterdam could be a winner.

 

BTW, not all cats are cute.

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Now get your cats to London; NYC and Amsterdam! ;-)

Maybe I should start a rent-a-cat agency.

The only thing against that: I have no cats (anymore).

 

wim

 

 

Cats eating spaghetti in Amsterdam could be a winner.

 

 

B52A69.jpg

B52A69 © Juniors Bildarchiv GmbH / Alamy

 

:P

 

Cheers,

Philippe 

 

 

OMG you beat us to it!

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There is a very simplae answer to all this. When the supply oustrips the demand ( which we all know is happening) we are in trouble and yes, oversupply!  as another poster pointed out. When everyone who picks up a camera fancies thyemselves as a photographer, weekend-warriors, happy snappers all just dumping  some images here and there it all adds up to this.

 

Of course agencies will accept! they are not stupid, they know that millions of images are valuable assets, so why not! I would! 

 

However, we are all quilty, we are all supplying images to a whole string of agencies, very often the same images, we are ourselves aiding to oversaturation, etc, etc. We made our beds! now we have to lie in them. Tisk, tisk!

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"As to curated stock photo collections making more profit for photographers, the anecdotal evidence would suggest otherwise" BB

Anecdotal stuff can be a joy to listen to, but If you want to know the truth then look at the facts – or at least the best evidence available. If, for example, you look at the financials of different suppliers you see that there are vast differences in performance. As far as average agency returns per image go, Alamy is a long way behind most leading agencies, all edited collections. But it can be argued that once you factor in a good commission rate (50% as opposed to 40%, 37.5%, 30%, 20% to give a few without naming names) and the lack of editing then the situation is greatly improved. It’s even more improved when you consider that the work required to place image in an edited collections may be much greater than an unedited one. But it's less improved when you consider how much work actually goes into shooting/editing/keywording, and how working with a good editor can be aesthetically liberating, especially when they tacitly encourage you to push the envelope out. And it is also less improved when you consider that some of the best agencies also offer 50%

More evidence is available in the form of surveys of users of stock imagery. Alamy might be praised by a few cash-strapped buyers such as magazine editors, but seems to barely exist for design/ad industry users who are used to buying bunches of images for $1000 apiece. Aside from the majors, they are as likely to mention boutique agencies with collections not much bigger ­- even smaller - than some of individual contributors here. Look at the financials of those agencies and you will see that net RPI can be a very much bigger figure than $1. Or even $10.

Because returns here are much lower than with the leading commercial/creative/academic suppliers, it is inevitable that a lot of content is photography done for pleasure rather than commerce, with (for example) some collections consisting almost entirely of holiday photography, others of flotsam and jetsum - the work that didn't get past the curators (I put my hands up). So yes, the OP is right, the market is supersaturated with certain types of imagery, and a lot of it is right here.

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I agree Bob, 100%. I am basically a dayrate photographer, working on commisions, etc have done for 25 years. I could never survive on an editorial day-rate, not a chance in hell but on a corporate/advertising day-rate I can happily survive ten times over.

 

Same with stock-agencies. For reasonable to big money, you simply have to get in with designers, AD's and ad-agencies or else be starving, well not really but you know what I mean.

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There is a very simplae answer to all this. When the supply oustrips the demand ( which we all know is happening) we are in trouble and yes, oversupply!  as another poster pointed out. When everyone who picks up a camera fancies thyemselves as a photographer, weekend-warriors, happy snappers all just dumping  some images here and there it all adds up to this.

 

Of course agencies will accept! they are not stupid, they know that millions of images are valuable assets, so why not! I would! 

 

However, we are all quilty, we are all supplying images to a whole string of agencies, very often the same images, we are ourselves aiding to oversaturation, etc, etc. We made our beds! now we have to lie in them. Tisk, tisk!

 

It's not totally the fault of photographers. Technology is to blame (if that's the correct word) as well. Digital cameras have allowed people to easily and cheaply produce the zillions of images of everything imaginable that now flood the marketplace. The digital world has created much more demand as well, but it can't possibly keep up with the supply of the types of images that end up bursting the seams of stock photo agencies. There is, of course, always room for timely, well thought-out imagery, but the big picture doesn't exactly look rosy.

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Oh I agree completely!  technology and the Internet. Look at the old days, Stones, Image-bank, Alamy. Picture buyer phones up and gives a brief, the editor goes to the trannie-shelves and picks out half a dozen trannies and sends them along to the client. Nice personal approach withe knowlegable people. All that has gone with the Internet!

The digitala era comes along but whitout the Internet it wouldnt stand a chance. So now we have about a million contributors with little Dslrs running around dumping small ports just about everywhere.

 

Funny thing but I know a small highly regarded agency, they are very expensive and still using the old approach in every way, they are small but flourishing, doing really good business. Just goes to show.

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Sorry, but

 

It is not a question of a market becoming "over saturated" but a lack of professionalisum on the part of the contributors.

In my opinion making images for licensing is a profession, not a hobby.  It is not just picking up a camera and taking some

snaps, then waiting for the $'s to roll in.

 

While I do carry a, or several, Alamy approved digital cameras with me most days, I only submit a 100th of the images

that I shoot.  I also now make 100 times more than what I make from Alamy licenses doing commissioned work.

 

It is a difficult question, stock versus commission and there was a time when stock worked for me, that time may come

again, but in 2015 it is commissions, or photography done for a client. 

 

Chuck (still the original one)

 

Totally agree!

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"Funny thing but I know a small highly regarded agency, they are very expensive and still using the old approach in every way, they are small but flourishing, doing really good business. Just goes to show"

 

I know a couple in the UK, Christian.  One reason buyers use them is to avoid this:

 

http://www.indiebooklauncher.com/resources-diy/gallery-of-clones.php

 

On the larger question:  new technology might be the problem, getting on top of it is the solution.  Learn how to present your work online in new and interesting ways, learn about multi-media, don't just rely on the digits you camera produces but create your own using 3d software.  And so on.

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