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Jill Morgan

New Sony RX100 or Used Sony RX-100 M2

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I am seriously considering getting a Sony after answering the thread on what kit changes we would like.  Love my Canon, but colour noise over 800 ISO is always a problem and I have ditched so many images for that reason.

 

I have wanted a second camera, so instead of another Canon, I am considering a Sony.

 

I can get a new RX-100 for $539 CDN or I have found a used RX-100 M2 for $399 CDN.  Which do you think would be the better way to go over the long term?

 

Jill

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My rule of thumb is half price for used bodies. So I'd wait or buy new, unless you know the shutter count is very low- my latest replacement had under 400 on it.

A dealer warranty might justify a bit more.

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My rule of thumb is half price for used bodies. So I'd wait or buy new, unless you know the shutter count is very low- my latest replacement had under 400 on it.

A dealer warranty might justify a bit more.

 

How can you find out shutter count? It is a dealer with the used Sony. What would be a reasonable count on a used Sony?

 

Jill

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There's a flag in the EXIF in the later models- I don't know about RX100. You take a picture and use this

http://tools.science.si/index.php

Lots online about shutter life but most of it is for SLRs.

Edit- I see it's a leaf shutter so I don't know if it's an issue.

Edited by spacecadet

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It depends on what you want to do with it. The M2 has 2 very important new features: WiFi and a hinged screen that allows working from waist level or from the floor without lying down.

The WiFi allows working remote with a smartphone. Up to a short distance only: 10-15 meters indoor and 2,5-3 meters in crowded places.

I would not go beyond 640 ISO and even that with only the greatest care. I know I have some 800 ISO images, but all have been reduced in size to get them through QC.

Mk 3, 4 and 5 have a shorter, but wider lens: 24-70. Every new iteration has better video capabilities. And quicker AF, face recognition, general processing time. Image quality wise there's only very slight improvement.

 

There is a windows program to check the shutter count. PIE.

There's very little wear on a shutter like that. I had some dust in one and a malfunctioning aperture in the other. So having two and checking the results at least daily is a clever thing while traveling. I did/had neither, when the aperture failure happened. Well I did have the dslr of course. When I did look, it took me another day to figure there was something wrong and it had not been wrong user input.

Likely cause: shock.

 

wim

 

edit: PIE does show a lot of EXIF data that I had previously missed, but not the shutter count on the RX100. It may not be recorded at all.

It does record, and Pie does show, both external and internal temperature though.

Edited by wiskerke

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In case you're susceptible to temptation, my A58 passes at 3200 with care and NR. SLT though, so not the pocketable type you probably have in mind.

I'd go to 6400 with hand-held twilight mode.

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Jill

 

With the Recent launch of the mark 5 version I imagine the mark 4 will be coming down in price very soon. Might be in your interests to hang back a little. I've just had a few accepted by QC at 1600 ISO from this version.

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Likely cause: shock.

 

wim

Oh, Wim, did you take a nudie with it?? These cameras are very shy and sensitive, you know. ;)
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I don't own either of these cameras, but I'd snap up the used M2 if it looks to be in good shape. I find tilting screens to be a real boon. Also, $399 CAN is a good price these days. People are asking more for used stuff after recent price hikes on new Sony cameras and lenses.

Edited by John Mitchell

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I am seriously considering getting a Sony after answering the thread on what kit changes we would like.  Love my Canon, but colour noise over 800 ISO is always a problem and I have ditched so many images for that reason.

 

I have wanted a second camera, so instead of another Canon, I am considering a Sony.

 

I can get a new RX-100 for $539 CDN or I have found a used RX-100 M2 for $399 CDN.  Which do you think would be the better way to go over the long term?

 

Jill

 

If noise is the issue (rather than camera size), then perhaps you should be thinking full frame DSLR rather than tiny camera.

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To me the RX100-3 is a second or third camera dealing with night shots better than my Canon 5DII and great to have with you at all times and much less conspicuous - but in many cases I prefer the image quality of my 5DII (which I probably should update).

Edited by Niels Quist

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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras.  I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera.  At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot.  I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

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The nice thing about them, Jill, is that you can keep it in your handbag. This allows you to whip it out and get shots while you are shopping for food or anything else. Also when you eat out.

 

I've taken shots in the mall, inside other stores, and some of these have sold. I would not have taken a larger camera to these places. It actually opens up avenues you might not have explored before. These are images taken when my original purpose was not a shoot.

I'd never give up mine.

I think you'll enjoy it.

Betty

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Does the seller offer an kind of guarantee on the MK2? Some shops here give a 30-day warranty on used equipment. Private sellers of course are another matter. Sony cameras tend to be well made, though. I have a NEX-3 that I bought used in 2012, and it is still going strong after much use. It's a tough little guy.

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I have the RX-100 Mk2 and find the tilting screen extremely useful

 

Kumar

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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras.  I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera.  At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot.  I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

Another one you might want to consider that fulfils your size and weight requirements is the tiny little Fuji X-M1 with its kit lens (XC 16-50). Hardly bigger than the Sony, probably cheaper, and much better image quality - it has the same APS-C size sensor as the well-regarded X-T1 and in terms of noise, is I find at least two stops better than the RX100. I replaced my RX100 i with the X-M1. There's also a Panasonic micro 4/3rds that's even smaller, though their kit lens isn't as good and the smaller sensor may also have noise issues. 

 

Whichever you go with, I strongly suggest getting something with a hinged screen - RX100 ii and X-M1 both have this. I was at first very hesitant to use something with only the back screen for composition (RX100 i always felt awkward to use), but the tilt screen has transformed my photography through the new angles that become a lot easier. Using the X-M1 feels a bit like using medium format with a waist-level finder, or an old TLR film camera! 

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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras.  I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera.  At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot.  I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

Another one you might want to consider that fulfils your size and weight requirements is the tiny little Fuji X-M1 with its kit lens (XC 16-50). Hardly bigger than the Sony, probably cheaper, and much better image quality - it has the same APS-C size sensor as the well-regarded X-T1 and in terms of noise, is I find at least two stops better than the RX100. I replaced my RX100 i with the X-M1. There's also a Panasonic micro 4/3rds that's even smaller, though their kit lens isn't as good and the smaller sensor may also have noise issues. 

 

Whichever you go with, I strongly suggest getting something with a hinged screen - RX100 ii and X-M1 both have this. I was at first very hesitant to use something with only the back screen for composition (RX100 i always felt awkward to use), but the tilt screen has transformed my photography through the new angles that become a lot easier. Using the X-M1 feels a bit like using medium format with a waist-level finder, or an old TLR film camera! 

 

 

My Canon has a hinged screen, so I do like that feature.  Haven't used it often as I am a viewfinder girl, but I think I can readjust to using the screen on the Sony.

 

I'll look at the other cameras though.

 

Jill

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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras. I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera. At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot. I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

 

Another one you might want to consider that fulfils your size and weight requirements is the tiny little Fuji X-M1 with its kit lens (XC 16-50). Hardly bigger than the Sony, probably cheaper, and much better image quality - it has the same APS-C size sensor as the well-regarded X-T1 and in terms of noise, is I find at least two stops better than the RX100. I replaced my RX100 i with the X-M1. There's also a Panasonic micro 4/3rds that's even smaller, though their kit lens isn't as good and the smaller sensor may also have noise issues.

 

Whichever you go with, I strongly suggest getting something with a hinged screen - RX100 ii and X-M1 both have this. I was at first very hesitant to use something with only the back screen for composition (RX100 i always felt awkward to use), but the tilt screen has transformed my photography through the new angles that become a lot easier. Using the X-M1 feels a bit like using medium format with a waist-level finder, or an old TLR film camera!

I haven't used the X-M1, but I do shoot Fuji and love the output. I began with the X-T1.

 

Simplicity of use for those grab shots? I'd probably have to go with the Sony. I mostly just set it on Raw, Intelligent Auto, the green camera icon, mostly. The camera makes the decisions and almost never goes wrong. For low light, that has been covered in other threads with the RX100s. I used the Night Scene or the other one, I can't remember. The one that allows Raw. Shot some night scenes (no tripod) in St. Croix that I could never have gotten with my Nikons or Fujis without a tripod.

Edit: see F9BNPF, F854R2, F854P4.

Edited by Betty LaRue
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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras.  I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera.  At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot.  I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

Another one you might want to consider that fulfils your size and weight requirements is the tiny little Fuji X-M1 with its kit lens (XC 16-50). Hardly bigger than the Sony, probably cheaper, and much better image quality - it has the same APS-C size sensor as the well-regarded X-T1 and in terms of noise, is I find at least two stops better than the RX100. I replaced my RX100 i with the X-M1. There's also a Panasonic micro 4/3rds that's even smaller, though their kit lens isn't as good and the smaller sensor may also have noise issues. 

 

Whichever you go with, I strongly suggest getting something with a hinged screen - RX100 ii and X-M1 both have this. I was at first very hesitant to use something with only the back screen for composition (RX100 i always felt awkward to use), but the tilt screen has transformed my photography through the new angles that become a lot easier. Using the X-M1 feels a bit like using medium format with a waist-level finder, or an old TLR film camera! 

 

 

My Canon has a hinged screen, so I do like that feature.  Haven't used it often as I am a viewfinder girl, but I think I can readjust to using the screen on the Sony.

 

I'll look at the other cameras though.

 

Jill

 

 

When you don't have a viewfinder, the hinged screen comes in extra handy -- e.g. you can tilt it to reduce reflections.

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My budget doesn't allow for more than these cameras. I don't have a lot of time right now, so it's hard to justify spending a lot of money on a camera. At least with the Sony, I can have it with me at all times and lots easier to pull out and shoot. I am probably going to go for the used RX-100 M2.

 

Jill

Another one you might want to consider that fulfils your size and weight requirements is the tiny little Fuji X-M1 with its kit lens (XC 16-50). Hardly bigger than the Sony, probably cheaper, and much better image quality - it has the same APS-C size sensor as the well-regarded X-T1 and in terms of noise, is I find at least two stops better than the RX100. I replaced my RX100 i with the X-M1. There's also a Panasonic micro 4/3rds that's even smaller, though their kit lens isn't as good and the smaller sensor may also have noise issues.

 

Whichever you go with, I strongly suggest getting something with a hinged screen - RX100 ii and X-M1 both have this. I was at first very hesitant to use something with only the back screen for composition (RX100 i always felt awkward to use), but the tilt screen has transformed my photography through the new angles that become a lot easier. Using the X-M1 feels a bit like using medium format with a waist-level finder, or an old TLR film camera!

I haven't used the X-M1, but I do shoot Fuji and love the output. I began with the X-T1.

 

Simplicity of use for those grab shots? I'd probably have to go with the Sony. I mostly just set it on Raw, Intelligent Auto, the green camera icon, mostly. The camera makes the decisions and almost never goes wrong. For low light, that has been covered in other threads with the RX100s. I used the Night Scene or the other one, I can't remember. The one that allows Raw. Shot some night scenes (no tripod) in St. Croix that I could never have gotten with my Nikons or Fujis without a tripod.

Edit: see F9BNPF, F854R2, F854P4.

 

Interesting - I found the X-M1 far more versatile than the RX100 i (and it also has programme and auto modes, as well as a very useful auto-ISO function). Each to their own, I guess - diversity is what makes life interesting :-) 

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I had an original RX100, and  used it every day.  In the early days I had problems with IQ and had it repaired under warranty.  The repair was done by Sony at no cost to me, not even postage, and was completed in nine days.

 

When the later models came out, I was not tempted, because the original was good enough.

 

Eventually, it had a spectacular failure, something that has never happened to me with any previous camera.  It had happened after about 10,000 exposures.  I had dropped it a couple of times, so maybe I damaged something.

 

I was tempted to replace it with a Mk2, for the tilting screen, but in the end I bought a Mk3.  Which I am very happy with.

 

As I saw it, for still photography none of the later models above the Mk3 had any useful extra features.

 

If I was faced with the choice of New Mk1, or used Mk2, I think I would choose the new Mk1 because I judge the makers warranty worth having.

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  It had happened after about 10,000 exposures.  I had dropped it a couple of times, so maybe I damaged something.

 

 

 

 

Peter, how did you check the shutter count on that little Sony, I wonder? 

 

I have the RX100-M3 and I would not be happy without the EVF that is not on the M1 or M2.

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  It had happened after about 10,000 exposures.  I had dropped it a couple of times, so maybe I damaged something.

 

 

 

 

Peter, how did you check the shutter count on that little Sony, I wonder? 

 

I have the RX100-M3 and I would not be happy without the EVF that is not on the M1 or M2.

 

Probably here, though it's not actually listed

http://tools.science.si/index.php

It's in the EXIF.

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It had happened after about 10,000 exposures. I had dropped it a couple of times, so maybe I damaged something.

 

 

 

Peter, how did you check the shutter count on that little Sony, I wonder?

 

I have the RX100-M3 and I would not be happy without the EVF that is not on the M1 or M2.

Probably here, though it's not actually listed

http://tools.science.si/index.php

It's in the EXIF.

I haven't found it so far. Nor has anybody else on the net afaik. Most people now think that's simply not recorded.

 

wim

 

edit: DK would probably know.

Edited by wiskerke
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Thanks, Mark and Wim.

 

Wim, I read your post saying that a shutter count on those little Sonys probably doesn't matter, and god knows I've got other things to worry about. Let me point out something else: when I've taken cameras up to Adorama to sell, no one asked about or mentioned shutter count. 

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