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Contract Change 2021 - Official thread


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2 hours ago, Thyrsis said:

Since he had his 2nd vaccine OH has felt a lack of energy and muscle aches. Maybe it has affected you the same way?

 

 

 was his 2nd jab a different vaccine to the 1st?

 

Allan

 

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21 hours ago, Michael Ventura said:

This is all a sad point in our collective stock world.  Whether or not you stay or go, it will never be like it was (as life has a way being like that).  Sad to see the Alamy forum family break up some.  I have enjoyed each and everyone of you.  Lots of great characters and wonderful insight and knowledge spread around.  While I have never met a single one of you, I feel I know some of you so well that we have become old friends.  I am planning to stay but mostly because I see nowhere else that is any better and don't have the time or desire to move my nearly 10,000 images elsewhere.  My portfolio will be pretty much passive and what it earns, it earns.  Not going to put much new energy into it.  For those who are moving on, I do respect your decision and wish you better roads ahead!

 

Michael

You and I see the forum in the same light. I have, over the years, watched personalities develop for me, and know where the kind hearts are. Like you. Sally hasn’t been here long in the grand scheme of things, but I will miss you, SALLY! All of the long-time forum members who are leaving will be greatly missed. They have added so much wisdom through the years, and have been giving of their time sharing that wisdom. Here’s to you all!  👏👏👏👑

I hate what’s happening here. Trust is gone, people are leaving, the future with Alamy is unknown.  People are leaving because of those two things.
Including a feeling of betrayal.

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1 minute ago, Betty LaRue said:

You and I see the forum in the same light. I have, over the years, watched personalities develop for me, and know where the kind hearts are. Like you. Sally hasn’t been here long in the grand scheme of things, but I will miss you, SALLY! All of the long-time forum members who are leaving will be greatly missed. They have added so much wisdom through the years, and have been giving of their time sharing that wisdom. Here’s to you all!  👏👏👏👑

I hate what’s happening here. Trust is gone, people are leaving, the future with Alamy is unknown.  People are leaving because of those two things.
Including a feeling of betrayal.

 

I came late to posting on the forums Betty but really needed your friendship in sending me apple pies to my dungeon when i was in clink. Only thing was you omitted to mention the file in the pie to help me hack my way out. It is lucky I was able to get free dental surgery back then.

 

I am still undecided but if I go I will miss you all too, not just for the useful information freely given, but also the hilarious situations that we got ourselves into on the forums. I am thinking of people we have missed for some time now like Philippe.

 

I will keep thinking but let you all know my decision at the appropriate time.

 

If the worst comes to the worst I have your and some others Email addresses to keep in touch but that will not interact like this forum.

 

Allan

 

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36 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

 was his 2nd jab a different vaccine to the 1st?

 

Allan

 

 

Hmmm! Strange. I wonder if the vaccine had been altered slightly to take account of the covid variant.

 

I had Pfizer for both. The second jab being back in April and had no side effects.

 

Allan

 

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5 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

I came late to posting on the forums Betty but really needed your friendship in sending me apple pies to my dungeon when i was in clink. Only thing was you omitted to mention the file in the pie to help me hack my way out. It is lucky I was able to get free dental surgery back then.

 

I am still undecided but if I go I will miss you all too, not just for the useful information freely given, but also the hilarious situations that we got ourselves into on the forums. I am thinking of people we have missed for some time now like Philippe.

 

I will keep thinking but let you all know my decision at the appropriate time.

 

If the worst comes to the worst I have your and some others Email addresses to keep in touch but that will not interact like this forum.

 

Allan

 

Don’t Go!

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4 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Hmmm! Strange. I wonder if the vaccine had been altered slightly to take account of the covid variant.

 

I had Pfizer for both. The second jab being back in April and had no side effects.

 

Allan

 

Over here, it is pretty common to hear of different reactions. I think some of it is caused by individual immune systems. The stronger your immune system, the more likely the reaction to the jab will have a stronger reaction.

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3 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Don’t Go!

 

As I have just replied to Paulette in another thread.    AW! You have brought a tear to my eye.😭😭😭

 

Allan

 

Edited by Allan Bell
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I’m still thinking through my decision and must read over the contract again to see if it’s something I can (grudgingly) agree to. However, I must say, I’m very grateful to all the wonderful photographers on this forum, especially during the last year+ when we were all hiding in our homes or wandering out in nature, avoiding in-person contact with others. For the most part, this forum has been a good, supportive place to be and it’s really too bad the new people at Alamy/PA don’t seem to value the freely-offered resources from those of you who give so much to others. My thanks, respect, and best wishes to all, whether you are leaving or staying. 

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36 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

 

I hate what’s happening here. Trust is gone, people are leaving, the future with Alamy is unknown.  People are leaving because of those two things.
Including a feeling of betrayal.

 

 

as usual you have hit the mark.  i dislike the new contract, but my biggest problem is that my trust Alamy was a partner is gone.  I always trusted that they had our common interest.  For example if i didn't fill the so-called "optional" info, they would still make sure it wasn't licensed inappropriately, but now they told me "nope, we will then drop the whole problem on you".  

and to make matters worse, the refusal to go through this WITH us feels like a betrayal, they have not clarified one item, not engaged on the forum once, and this is where i am left feeling empty, and slightly unanchored- at a time where many of my other anchoring are also broken.  

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40 minutes ago, Cecile Marion said:

I’m still thinking through my decision and must read over the contract again to see if it’s something I can (grudgingly) agree to. However, I must say, I’m very grateful to all the wonderful photographers on this forum, especially during the last year+ when we were all hiding in our homes or wandering out in nature, avoiding in-person contact with others. For the most part, this forum has been a good, supportive place to be and it’s really too bad the new people at Alamy/PA don’t seem to value the freely-offered resources from those of you who give so much to others. My thanks, respect, and best wishes to all, whether you are leaving or staying. 

 

How contributor-friendly are contracts at other stock agencies that you might have looked at?

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I'm sad to see people are leaving. I thought Alamy did engage on the contract changes to a large extent. I've been through the changes in detail and it's almost all just changes in the wording, the intent remains the same. So I don't really understand all the people complaining about what Alamy have done with the new contract. If any contract clauses aren't liked, they were already in the contract that we had previously. Not to say I agree with all the contract clauses, but there don't seem to be any show stoppers.

 

I am quite upset about the commission change, especially coming a year or so after Alamy previously backed down from reducing the commission for people with exclusive content. I understand that it's new owners so previous history is not really relevant to PA. But I still don't see why they can't do something with the exclusive content, rather than almost actively encouraging contributors to go non-exclusive. I'm considering other avenues myself, but don't want to leave. I can however totally understand people leaving because it's less financially viable to be here.

Steve

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20 minutes ago, Steve F said:

I'm sad to see people are leaving. I thought Alamy did engage on the contract changes to a large extent. I've been through the changes in detail and it's almost all just changes in the wording, the intent remains the same. So I don't really understand all the people complaining about what Alamy have done with the new contract. If any contract clauses aren't liked, they were already in the contract that we had previously. Not to say I agree with all the contract clauses, but there don't seem to be any show stoppers.

 

I am quite upset about the commission change, especially coming a year or so after Alamy previously backed down from reducing the commission for people with exclusive content. I understand that it's new owners so previous history is not really relevant to PA. But I still don't see why they can't do something with the exclusive content, rather than almost actively encouraging contributors to go non-exclusive. I'm considering other avenues myself, but don't want to leave. I can however totally understand people leaving because it's less financially viable to be here.

Steve

 

I think that Alamy blew the whole "exclusivity" thing by making it totally dependent on an honour system. This was a decent attempt at appeasement, but unfortunately honour systems are easy to abuse. Offering an optional "exclusive" contract or other type of written agreement would have been (or perhaps still would be) a wiser idea IMO. Also, Alamy's definition of "exclusivity" was too willy-nilly.

 

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell
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53 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

How contributor-friendly are contracts at other stock agencies that you might have looked at?

John, did you mean to direct your question at me? I don’t understand what it has to do with my comments about forum support. Am I missing something?

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21 minutes ago, Cecile Marion said:

John, did you mean to direct your question at me? I don’t understand what it has to do with my comments about forum support. Am I missing something?

 

Just wondering if you have compared Alamy's contract with those of any other agencies (without naming them, of course). I'm admittedly a dunce when it comes to these matters, but some of the ones that I've checked out recently don't look a heck of a lot better to me. For instance, I found an architectural library that I quite like and thought it might work for some of my images. However, they want exclusive images and offer only 40% share, plus their liability clauses don't seem (?) much friendlier to me. I'm not trying to justify Alamy's recent moves, but I wonder how many better/fairer contracts there are out there these days. Consider this a rhetorical question if you like. Hope you decide to stay. Cheers.

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12 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Just wondering if you have compared Alamy's contract with those of any other agencies (without naming them, of course). I'm admittedly a dunce when it comes to these matters, but some of the ones that I've checked out recently don't look a heck of a lot better to me. For instance, I found an architectural library that I quite like and thought it might work for some of my images. However, they want exclusive images and offer only 40% share, plus their liability clauses don't seem (?) much friendlier to me. I'm not trying to justify Alamy's recent moves, but I wonder how many better/fairer contracts there are out there these days. Consider this a rhetorical question if you like. Hope you decide to stay. Cheers.

 

John, I've looked at the contracts of some of the microstock site where I have video content. In broad terms (and I am NOT a lawyer) they look quite similar to what Alamy are presenting to us. One notable difference though is I can't see that other places have clauses quite like  2.5 (ii) and 4.1.6.

 

2.5. You will not to use the System for the purposes of uploading, posting, making available or in any other way processing Content or any information related to the Content: (i) in breach of any applicable law; (ii) in a way that may or may be deemed to constitute incitement to racial hatred, child pornography, slander, insult, instigation of rebellion, an unlawful description of violence, a violation of any intellectual property law or data protection laws; or (iii) in a way that may be conceived as threatening, insulting, racist, offensive, vulgar and/or indecent

4.1.6. the Content uploaded to the System will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, vulgar or violate publicity rights;

 

The issue of 'deemed to be' and who deems it is something which worries me. I've asked Alamy for clarification, though I'm not hopeful.

 

The situation I am looking at at the moment is that if I have problems with Alamy's contract, then I may also have problems with the contract in other agencies. If I am to continue contributing stock imagery at all I need to assure myself that I have taken every possible step to protect myself - and at the moment I have not yet reached that level of assurance. 

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24 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

John, I've looked at the contracts of some of the microstock site where I have video content. In broad terms (and I am NOT a lawyer) they look quite similar to what Alamy are presenting to us. One notable difference though is I can't see that other places have clauses quite like  2.5 (ii) and 4.1.6.

 

2.5. You will not to use the System for the purposes of uploading, posting, making available or in any other way processing Content or any information related to the Content: (i) in breach of any applicable law; (ii) in a way that may or may be deemed to constitute incitement to racial hatred, child pornography, slander, insult, instigation of rebellion, an unlawful description of violence, a violation of any intellectual property law or data protection laws; or (iii) in a way that may be conceived as threatening, insulting, racist, offensive, vulgar and/or indecent

4.1.6. the Content uploaded to the System will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, vulgar or violate publicity rights;

 

The issue of 'deemed to be' and who deems it is something which worries me. I've asked Alamy for clarification, though I'm not hopeful.

 

The situation I am looking at at the moment is that if I have problems with Alamy's contract, then I may also have problems with the contract in other agencies. If I am to continue contributing stock imagery at all I need to assure myself that I have taken every possible step to protect myself - and at the moment I have not yet reached that level of assurance. 

 

I think the fact that Alamy do not QC for content means that they have to place the onus on the contributor to ensure that content (including captions and tags) is appropriate. There is certainly a lot of room for interpretation. My intended approach is to avoid as far as possible uploading anything that is likely to contravene anything even if that becomes really limiting - again the returns are not worth the worry. Staying objective in captions should avoid most of the above-mentioned. Publicity rights, intellectual property or data protection laws are probably the grey areas, especially in other countries where laws differ from English law. 

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Today I submitted ONE image....of a flower. If it passes QC (meh) I'll mark it as editorial,  non-exclusive property no release. In six months I'll be back to complain it has no sales of .12 cents.  Working pro!!! (have you noticed images in QC are always, dark, muddy, and over saturated?)

 

2G2RGCB.jpg

 

Edited by formerly snappyoncalifornia
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58 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

It is very interesting to see the degree of mental yoga contortions that people are prepared to perform. 

 

For me the mental yoga is essential to how I approach the future. I only do stock photography and I'm of an age and personal nature that other commercial photographic routes do not appeal to me. If I can't stay with Alamy because the contract loads too much, unfair and uncontrollable risk on my shoulders, then I will have to give up commercial photography. And if I have to give up at Alamy, then I have to question whether I can continue selling video imagery at other agencies, given that their contracts have similar (though not identical) indemnification clauses to Alamy. I enjoy stock photography and videography and I don't want to give it up until I am sure there is no safe way to carry on.

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1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

I think the fact that Alamy do not QC for content means that they have to place the onus on the contributor to ensure that content (including captions and tags) is appropriate. There is certainly a lot of room for interpretation. My intended approach is to avoid as far as possible uploading anything that is likely to contravene anything even if that becomes really limiting - again the returns are not worth the worry. Staying objective in captions should avoid most of the above-mentioned. Publicity rights, intellectual property or data protection laws are probably the grey areas, especially in other countries where laws differ from English law. 

 

I'm sure that is the right approach and I have always been careful with what I upload and with captions. However I'm still concern that clauses 2.5 (ii) and 4.1.6 leaves an open door to interpretations of what is offensive, vulgar etc etc by goodness knows who from goodness knows where. If something can be deemed to be one or more of these things, I would like to know who has the power to do the deeming, espcially when I have to carry the can for it.

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17 minutes ago, ManfredG said:

Me too.
But it's not the Alamy change alone. It was a reason to think generally about stock photography, looking for other agencies. (Alamy is not my only stock agency, but the only GENERAL stock.) And all this together was quite disillusioning: Stock is dead. Full stop. (At least for those who want or must really earn money.)

 

for me too the new contract was not the reason I am leaving. I had effectively withdrawn from generic stock several years ago, and written about stock's demise. The new contract was the trigger to actually do something about it. It removes the feeling I should be shooting for submission.

 

So, I am expecting that not doing stock will reinvigorate my photography as I work on extended personal bodies of work (bodies of work and photographerrs' practice is basis of my PhD question). I will be writing about it and sharing it as and where I can.

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1 hour ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

I'm sure that is the right approach and I have always been careful with what I upload and with captions. However I'm still concern that clauses 2.5 (ii) and 4.1.6 leaves an open door to interpretations of what is offensive, vulgar etc etc by goodness knows who from goodness knows where. If something can be deemed to be one or more of these things, I would like to know who has the power to do the deeming, espcially when I have to carry the can for it.

 

A wee browse through your portfolio doesn't reveal (to me anyway) much that is likely to be deemed any of the adjectives that you listed. Mind you, some people find bagpipes offensive. 😎

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell
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