How many images per subject is considered "oversaturated" subject?

[tarsierspectral]

If I search for "horse" and 985,070 images come up then it's obvious that there are enough images of horses but what number of images would you say would be a cut off number where it's not longer  worth adding to the collection?  At what number of images is the subject considered oversaturated?

[losdemas]

Totally subjective. I imagine that you'll get many different opinions. For myself: absolutely, 100%, NEVER!

[John Morrison]

Think 'outside the box'. From the horse's mouth... Putting the horse before the cart... You can lead a horse to water... We're still waiting for the ultimate shot: Lord Lucan riding Shergar...

[Jill Morgan]

I don't worry about saturation.  Lots of subjects will come up with super large numbers when it is a very general search, such as 'horse'.  Most buyers would be looking for something more specific such as 'horse eating hay" or horse going over jump;, etc.

 

If you have a good rank, then the number of images of any subject doesn't matter if you are in the first few pages.  Doesn't matter if there are 1,000 or 100,000.

 

Many subjects change over time, so lots of city shots such as skylines or major tourist areas always need updating.

 

Just shoot, PP, keyword and keep on going.

 

Jill

[Betty LaRue]

Considering some buyers search “new” or is it “recently added?  I don’t worry about it that much. Especially if your image stands out.

[RWatkins]

"horse" is pretty generic. If you have images of a specific breed of horse, or a famous rider on a horse, or a horse in an unusual place, etc. it may still be worth adding.

[spacecadet]

Depends on your rank. I appear quite high in some searches, but usually quite specific ones- in your example, try "palomino horse" which cuts it down to 2,400. If your rank is good enough to get your palomino into the first few pages, you're in with a chance.

[Avpics]

The challenge is to get your horse to the front

[John Morrison]

1 minute ago, Avpics said:

The challenge is to get your horse to the front

 

Could be a photo finish...

[losdemas]

3 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

Think 'outside the box'. From the horse's mouth... Putting the horse before the cart... You can lead a horse to water... We're still waiting for the ultimate shot: Lord Lucan riding Shergar...

Think outside the 🐴 - box!

[fotoDogue]

Well there are all kinds of horses all over the world in various situations. For example there are only 155 results for Lipizan Horse, 648 for Assateague Horse and 203 for Chincoteague Horse. Narrow it down to Chincoteague Horse with a child and there's only one. I suspect most buyers looking for a photo of a horse are going to be more specific.

[Cryptoprocta]

41 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

...  For example there are only 155 results for Lipizan Horse, ...

Interesting, I've never heard of the term 'Lipizan horse', ever.

I'd search for 'Lipizzaner', for which there are 1,451 results.

But even if I had a pic of one, I'd never have known that some people call them Lipizan (only one 'z'?), so wouldn't have put it as a tag.

Wonder what else I'm missing? Scarey!

[John Mitchell]

Saturation is par for the course now -- i.e. the sky's the limit. As others have suggested, the trick seems to be to get your particular horse(s) "first past the post".

 

e.g. A search for "vancouver horse" brings up "only" 483 images. Amazingly, one of mine is in the first row. Not sure how it got there, though. The tags turned into a mess when the new AIM was introduced, and I haven't gotten around to reworking them yet.

 

 

[fotoDogue]

38 minutes ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Interesting, I've never heard of the term 'Lipizan horse', ever.

I'd search for 'Lipizzaner', for which there are 1,451 results.

But even if I had a pic of one, I'd never have known that some people call them Lipizan (only one 'z'?), so wouldn't have put it as a tag.

Wonder what else I'm missing? Scarey!

More likely my typo 

[Cryptoprocta]

18 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

More likely my typo 

Still, 155 hits shows you're not the only one! I've never even heard it as Lipizzan, and I was horsey when young!

But I bet there are lots of tags/potential sales we miss because we don't know of alternative names/spellings of things.

[Avpics]

5 minutes ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Still, 155 hits shows you're not the only one! I've never even heard it as Lipizzan, and I was horsey when young!

But I bet there are lots of tags/potential sales we miss because we don't know of alternative names/spellings of things.

Maybe it wasn't by choice. Perhaps the AIM revamp rode roughshod over the correct term

[Phil Robinson]

44 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

More likely my typo 

 

"The Lipizzan or Lipizzaner, is a breed of horse closely associated with the Spanish Riding School of Vienna"

Good old Wikipedia.

Either way its a double zz. (From Lipica in Slovenia)

[tarsierspectral]

Hmm, I feel like you guys misunderstood my question.  I'm not worried about where my images show up on a page.  

I research subjects to shoot in AoA to see what people are searching for and where there are gaps in the Alamy collection.  If there are let's say 300 images of a certain subject that an image searcher was looking for would you say that's worth shooting or would you consider that 300 images to be already a lot and not worth shooting any more, overdone, plenty of, unnecessary to add more.  The "horse" was a very generic example but let's say it's current skyline of Manhattan and there are 300 images of it.  Is it still worth adding more?  Is this considered a gap in a collection or not?

[fotoDogue]

12 minutes ago, tarsierspectral said:

let's say it's current skyline of Manhattan and there are 300 images of it.  Is it still worth adding more?  Is this considered a gap in a collection or not?

 

Only 300? I did a search for "Manhattan Skyline" and got 66,465 results. Some of them aren't very good and some of them aren't skylines. Any touristy shot of New York is going to be oversaturated. The view from the top of the Empire State Building, or Top of the Rock is probably the worst. But If you feel you have a different take on it and it's not going to cost a lot of money then why not?

[Cryptoprocta]

17 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

 

Only 300? I did a search for "Manhattan Skyline" and got 66,465 results. Some of them aren't very good and some of them aren't skylines. Any touristy shot of New York is going to be oversaturated. The view from the top of the Empire State Building, or Top of the Rock is probably the worst. But If you feel you have a different take on it and it's not going to cost a lot of money then why not?

Hmmmm:

"Photography is permitted only at the observation deck at the Top of the Rock and only for
private, personal and noncommercial use. Photographs cannot be published, sold, reproduced,
transferred, distributed, or otherwise commercially exploited in any manner whatsoever. Movie
and video cameras are prohibited."

 

[fotoDogue]

1 hour ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Hmmmm:

"Photography is permitted only at the observation deck at the Top of the Rock and only for
private, personal and noncommercial use. Photographs cannot be published, sold, reproduced,
transferred, distributed, or otherwise commercially exploited in any manner whatsoever. Movie
and video cameras are prohibited."

 

True but that doesn't stop anyone. My guess is, either people aren't aware of the rule or they don't expect anyone to follow up on it.

[tarsierspectral]

1 hour ago, fotoDogue said:

 

Only 300? I did a search for "Manhattan Skyline" and got 66,465 results. Some of them aren't very good and some of them aren't skylines. Any touristy shot of New York is going to be oversaturated. The view from the top of the Empire State Building, or Top of the Rock is probably the worst. But If you feel you have a different take on it and it's not going to cost a lot of money then why not?

I’m just throwing random subjects as an example. Let me rephrase, let’s say you search for subject “xxx” and 300 images come up in Alamy collection, would you say there are already too many images of “xxx” and there is no point adding more or would you consider that 300 images of “xxx” is a gap in a collection? I’m not asking about any specific subject nor about where my images show up on a page. Just a general question at what number of images per subject we could say there is a gap in the Alamy collection vs there are too many images of a given subject already.

[losdemas]

2 hours ago, tarsierspectral said:

Hmm, I feel like you guys misunderstood my question.  I'm not worried about where my images show up on a page.  

I research subjects to shoot in AoA to see what people are searching for and where there are gaps in the Alamy collection.  If there are let's say 300 images of a certain subject that an image searcher was looking for would you say that's worth shooting or would you consider that 300 images to be already a lot and not worth shooting any more, overdone, plenty of, unnecessary to add more.  The "horse" was a very generic example but let's say it's current skyline of Manhattan and there are 300 images of it.  Is it still worth adding more?  Is this considered a gap in a collection or not?

 

The answer remains the same.

 

Firstly, there is always a different take on every subject: times, viewpoints, framing, angle, seasons, other content, era, backgrounds, individual style, etc. etc.  Image quality improves, cameras get better, client requirements change, fashion and style demands change, physical locations change. The list goes ever on. 

 

Irrespective of all the above, you never can pre-guess exactly what a client may want - they are full of surprises.  I'm sure that many here will be able to give examples of licensed images which came as a complete surprise against very strong competition, generally owing to very specific client requirements which other images were not able to fulfill - no matter how good. 

 

And - last resort! - at the most basic level (even if your image quickly sinks to the bottom of the pile), it will still be seen in the new tab for a while! 

 

In short, once again I say that no subject is ever over-saturated. There is always room for more. The only issue is being sure that your image gets seen.  That's where the challenge lies. Which raises a whole range of other issues! 

[Patrick Cooper]

9 hours ago, John Morrison said:

Think 'outside the box'. From the horse's mouth... Putting the horse before the cart... You can lead a horse to water... We're still waiting for the ultimate shot: Lord Lucan riding Shergar...

 

Or Lady Godiva riding a horse!

[Cryptoprocta]

8 hours ago, tarsierspectral said:

I’m just throwing random subjects as an example. Let me rephrase, let’s say you search for subject “xxx” and 300 images come up in Alamy collection, would you say there are already too many images of “xxx” and there is no point adding more or would you consider that 300 images of “xxx” is a gap in a collection? I’m not asking about any specific subject nor about where my images show up on a page. Just a general question at what number of images per subject we could say there is a gap in the Alamy collection vs there are too many images of a given subject already.

I would look at the pics and think whether I could do anything better, or at least different enough to be worthwhile. Also I've noticed that buyers don't always choose what I consider to be the 'best' photo of a given subject, it could be down to personal preference, or the colours fitting into a layout, or the position of copyspace, or any other reason.