Non essential journeys

[Betty LaRue]

2 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

When you hear about dead people because of a shortage of ventilators, or the death of a middle age father to 3 kids, or when you see the video of the large refrigerated truck backed up to the hospital, when you hear about the crematoriums running overtime, when you hear about people passing alone without family, because they are in isolation.

 

All of these things are happening right now.

 

Think about what has been said in this thread, and remember who said it.

 

Freedom of speech is a basic right, but there is a responsibility that comes with that right.

Right on, Bill. I, for one, would not like to have the tremendous job managing this horrible virus as a leader of a nation. These people are human beings, subject to making mistakes, acting too early or too late. They put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. I say anyone who thinks they can do a better job, step up and offer your services. I know I can’t.

These leaders are in meetings every single day with a lot of people trying to figure out how to manage this. They are exposing themselves to the virus every day among all their advisors.  Why else are some of them getting sick? They want to do the best they can for their people. I doubt any of them are sleeping well. Is it necessary to compare? My leader is superior to your leader.  or...my leader is a joke but yours is the whole comedy routine.
 

Meanwhile, some of us sit in our easy chairs waiting for the checks to be delivered griping about them.

If we come out of this alive, it’ll be because our leaders have given us the roadmap. I’m grateful.

Betty

Edited March 28, 2020 by Betty LaRue
Typo

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

When you hear about dead people because of a shortage of ventilators, or the death of a middle age father to 3 kids, or when you see the video of the large refrigerated truck backed up to the hospital, when you hear about the crematoriums running overtime, when you hear about people passing alone without family, because they are in isolation.

 

All of these things are happening right now.

 

Think about what has been said in this thread, and remember who said it.

 

Freedom of speech is a basic right, but there is a responsibility that comes with that right.

 

We're lucky in Canada to have federal and provincial leaders who are willing to put politics aside and cooperate for the common good. What worries me are the leaders in the many counties -- especially those with "strongman" regimes -- that we hear relatively little about. What are they doing to help combat the spread of the virus? How accurate is their reporting of the number of cases and deaths? Time will tell...

Edited March 28, 2020 by John Mitchell

[geogphotos]

8 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

When you hear about dead people because of a shortage of ventilators, or the death of a middle age father to 3 kids, or when you see the video of the large refrigerated truck backed up to the hospital, when you hear about the crematoriums running overtime, when you hear about people passing alone without family, because they are in isolation.

 

All of these things are happening right now.

 

Think about what has been said in this thread, and remember who said it.

 

Freedom of speech is a basic right, but there is a responsibility that comes with that right.

 

 

Better to remember the politicians who took the decisions that led to the shortage of ventilators and who did not react to an impending pandemic reaching the country despite months of warning. 

 

I object to the implication that there has been any misuse of free speech in starting this thread. 

 

Also the hysterical attempt to connect unnecessary deaths with a discussion of access to the countryside or travelling alone in a car to a remote site to remain alone.  Nobody in their wildest moment is saying that those walking in the Peak District national park have contributed to anybody's death. The death of a father of 3 kids is because he caught the virus. 

 

This 'remember who said it' comment - what is that supposed to mean? It comes across as virtue signalling and finger pointing to me - actually directly at me!

 

Free speech has survived far more severe tests than this virus and should not be closed down now by over-reaction and melodrama.

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[Keith Douglas]

Not sure if this has been posted on here already, but this is the legislation that came into force at the end of last week

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf  

 

Section 6 for Restrictions on Movement.

[geogphotos]

29 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

Not sure if this has been posted on here already, but this is the legislation that came into force at the end of last week

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf  

 

Section 6 for Restrictions on Movement.

 

Thanks.

 

This is the part that has caused confusion with some police chiefs now saying that they have been over-zealous in its interpretation. 

 

'to take exercise alone or with other members of their household'.

 

It actually states that 'leaving the place where they live' can be done to take exercise and is a 'reasonable excuse'. It explicitly states that people CAN leave their home area to take exercise. It is lawful.

 

By the way 20 million people live within a one hour drive of the Peak District and not everybody has a garden or a large open space nearby. 

 

 

 

 

But as other have said this thread has been useful to clarify what it means - stay at home. I don't see anybody arguing with that and the News photographers, we all understand, are getting on with they work reporting what is happening and no doubt trying to keep themselves and everybody else safe.. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[Keith Douglas]

"I don't see anybody arguing with that and the News photographers, we all understand, are getting on with they work reporting what is happening and no doubt trying to keep themselves and everybody else safe"

 

Presumably they fall under 'reasonable excuse'  2 (f)

 

(f) to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living; 

[geogphotos]

2 hours ago, Keith Douglas said:

"I don't see anybody arguing with that and the News photographers, we all understand, are getting on with they work reporting what is happening and no doubt trying to keep themselves and everybody else safe"

 

Presumably they fall under 'reasonable excuse'  2 (f)

 

(f) to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living; 

 

Yes and then it comes to the rest of us as stock photographers to make our own decisions within the law. ie) it is perfectly legal for us to leave our home for exercise and clearly a person can take along a camera with them, and the law does not limit or state any restriction on such a journey.

 

It is a dilemma because there are demands for images coming from agencies including Alamy and in normal circumstances this is our job. Apart from a small pension and a bit of other bits and bobs this is my sole income. 

 

But regardless of the law the advice from government is now very clear.

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[MDM]

24 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Thanks.

 

This is the part that has caused confusion with some police chiefs now saying that they have been over-zealous in its interpretation. 

 

'to take exercise alone or with other members of their household'.

 

It actually states that 'leaving the place where they live' can be done to take exercise and is a 'reasonable excuse'. It explicitly states that people CAN leave their home area to take exercise. It is lawful.

 

 

 

But you are not doing it to take exercise. In your very first post which started this thread you say " On a personal level all I want to do is drive out to rural churches and take photos get back in car and repeat with next church. Is this now a punishable offence?" The only exercise there is getting in and out of the car and a very short walk. You could do that at home. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Better to remember the politicians who took the decisions that led to the shortage of ventilators and who did not react to an impending pandemic reaching the country despite months of warning. 

 

 

I absolutely agree. It is truly unbelievable and stupid. They have waited until the storm has arrived before doing anything. Unfortunately voters have incredibly short memories and the majority vote based on clever sound bites and emotion rather than rationality.

 

 

 

[geogphotos]

14 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

But you are not doing it to take exercise. In your very first post which started this thread you say " On a personal level all I want to do is drive out to rural churches and take photos get back in car and repeat with next church. Is this now a punishable offence?" The only exercise there is getting in and out of the car and a very short walk. You could do that at home. 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree. It is truly unbelievable and stupid. They have waited until the storm has arrived before doing anything. Unfortunately voters have incredibly short memories and the majority vote based on clever sound bites and emotion rather than rationality.

 

 

 

 

 

You are being pedantic and judgemental. 

 

Recovering from ill health which has restricted me since October and left me house bound for months this is just the sort of exercise I need - using my knees, up and down, short quick strolls, rest, repeat. That is according to my physio. I started with one visit to a church, now up to four of five in a day.

 

09,2019 - 384 images

10,2019 - 0 

11,2019 - 0

12,2019 - 15

01,2019 - 30

02,2020 -597

03,2020- 540

 

I was stuck at home apart from medical visits from late Sept 2019 to Feb 2020

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[MDM]

9 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

You are being pedantic and judgemental. 

 

Recovering from ill health which has restricted me since October and left me house bound for months this is just the sort of exercise I need - using my knees, up and down, short quick strolls, repeat. That is according to my physio. 

 

 

 

There is nothing stopping you doing that at home for exercise. Telling me I am being pedantic and judgemental is ridiculous as is the idea of you needing to drive around the countryside and stopping at churches and getting in and out of a car as exercise. You asked for opinions. I am giving them based on what you say. 

 

22 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Yes and then it comes to the rest of us as stock photographers to make our own decisions within the law. ie) it is perfectly legal for us to leave our home for exercise and clearly a person can take along a camera with them, and the law does not limit or state any restriction on such a journey.

 

It is a dilemma because there are demands for images coming from agencies including Alamy and in normal circumstances this is our job. Apart from a small pension and a bit of other bits and bobs this is my sole income. 

 

Taking pictures of churches is not news. Perhaps in the time of Henry the VIII it would qualify. No doubt your current large collection of stock will see you through this time. 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by MDM

[geogphotos]

10 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

There is nothing stopping you doing that at home for exercise. Telling me I am being pedantic and judgemental is ridiculous as is the idea of you needing to drive around the countryside and stopping at churches and getting in and out of a car as exercise. You asked for opinions. I am giving them based on what you say. 

 

 

Taking pictures of churches is not news. Perhaps in the time of Henry the VIII it would qualify. No doubt your current large collection of stock will see you through this time. 

 

 

 

 

With respect, is it any of your business? 

 

It is a form of exercise which allows me to do some work and get better/stronger.

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[MDM]

33 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

With respect, is it any of your business? 

 

It is a form of exercise which allows me to do some work and get better/stronger.

 

You are becoming more ridiculous with each post. You asked for opinions in a public forum and I am giving mine. I really couldn't care less about your exercise regimes or what you do.

 

Perhaps you should have added a qualifier to your initial question excluding me and in fact the vast majority of those who responded who disagree with your stance. The crux of the matter here is the distinction between what is legal and what is ethical or socially responsible. You can probably get around the law by saying that you need to travel to churches for exercise but is that socially responsible?

 

With that I will make better use of the time I have left on this planet than having futile arguments. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by MDM

[geogphotos]

16 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

You are becoming more ridiculous with each post. You asked for opinions in a public forum and I am giving mine. I really couldn't care less about your exercise regimes or what you do.

 

Perhaps you should have added a qualifier to your initial question excluding me and in fact the vast majority of those who responded who disagree with your stance. The crux of the matter here is the distinction between what is legal and what is ethical or socially responsible. You can probably get around the law by saying that you need to travel to churches for exercise but is that socially responsible?

 

With that I will make better use of the time I have left on this planet than having futile arguments. 

 

 

Okay Michael no wish to discuss with you. It's pointless.

 

I did not have a stance. I asked a genuine question because the police were setting up roadblocks and many people were confused about the law.

 

You do seem incredibly ready to try and force your judgements on others. You do it on many different threads. 

 

I first noticed it when I had no idea who you were and you jumped in to tell me unasked that my photos of Lanzarote were rubbish when actually they were much better than yours!

 

Perhaps you need to concentrate more on your own business and take some more pictures?

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[AlbertSnapper]

It's not all black and white. It is about reducing the risk.

[geogphotos]

11 minutes ago, AlbertSnapper said:

It's not all black and white. It is about reducing the risk.

 

 

Agreed, the UK government advice is to stay local. Since this thread started they have now clarified the  position.

 

Exercise locally, stay at home, don't go out unless it is essential. No arguments at all.

 

I haven't gone out taking pics since Monday 23rd before the lockdown announcement and will stay that way hoping for a relaxation some time. 

 

Nothing else to say is there.

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[John Morrison]

Ian... considering the need for self-isolation, it's fortunate that you're able to have an argument in an empty room...

[Jools Elliott]

Being stuck in France this past two weeks has been frustrating in one way (a trip to Vietnam has gone up in the air) and in another way it's allowed me to sort things out that didn't get done in a while.

 

Looking through the thread it's easy to see why emotions are running high. We're all feeling. We're all losing work because of this and trying our level best to do what we can.

 

There was a report the other day of a news photographer being stopped on the Champs Elysées by the police. Surrounded he explained to them that he needs to stop and change lenses etc as it's part of his job.

 

Being a professional photographer it could be quite easy to push the limit of what is and isn't allowed. I certainly understand the need for people to get out and exercise but the problem is that you give people an inch and they take a mile.

 

is it essential for Ian or anyone else to go out and take pictures as that's our job? Honestly, if it came to it and he got a fine then the only way to know for sure is to contest it in court.

 

Here in France they have said that they want NO businesses to fail. Ian's business has been for a long time taking images to earn his way.

 

It's an extremely difficult line that needs walking with caution.

[geogphotos]

37 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

Ian... considering the need for self-isolation, it's fortunate that you're able to have an argument in an empty room...

 

I am not having any argument John but you can't resist I suppose. Not unexpected.

 

And you will need to try a new fly on your rod because I am not taking this bait for an argument - no matter how much experience you have at fishing for it.

 

I am looking forward to the discussion broadening in the future. How essential, for example,  is it for us all to take flights to take stock photos given the environmental harm it is undoubtedly causing?

 

How essential is stock photography in general if it involves car journeys in polluting vehicles?

 

What photographic records, beyond news,  will there be of this passing pandemic when we look back?

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[Jools Elliott]

 

6 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

I am looking forward to the discussion broadening in the future. How essential, for example,  is it for us all to take flights to take stock photos given the environmental harm it is undoubtedly causing. 

 

How essential is it when you get commissioned by a company. That the commission gives you money. That feeds you. Your family etc?

 

Ian, these discussions could go on forever. Back and forth.

 

The main thing we ALL need to do now is not start going down these roads and concentrate on getting rid of this virus as quickly as possible. It is doing to pretty much everyone!

[geogphotos]

8 minutes ago, Jools Elliott said:

 

 

How essential is it when you get commissioned by a company. That the commission gives you money. That feeds you. Your family etc?

 

Ian, these discussions could go on forever. Back and forth.

 

The main thing we ALL need to do now is not start going down these roads and concentrate on getting rid of this virus as quickly as possible. It is doing to pretty much everyone!

 

 

Yes indeed. I was making a general point. Honestly.

 

One of the positives of this horrible period is that there is a chance for re-thinking.

 

Global warming and protests against climate change have been in the news. And now this virus actually stops the planes - the airlines are going bust, stops most of the car journeys, closes down most of capitalism. Who would have thought it?

 

But we can hear birdsong, the air is cleaner, life is simpler and slower, people are caring for each other, families coming together, even taking about morality rather than money!

 

Appreciation is being shown for the low paid who do essential work, the NHS is being applauded at last, governments are finding money to spend on social good.

 

There will be long-term changes.

 

Maybe similar to after WW2?

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[Jools Elliott]

4 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Yes indeed. I was making a general point. Honestly.

 

One of the positives of this horrible period is that there is a chance for re-thinking.

 

Global warming and protests against climate change have been in the news. And now this virus actually stops the planes - the airlines are going bust, stops most of the car journeys, closes down most of capitalism. How would ice thought it?

 

But we can hear birdsong, the air is cleaner, life is simpler and slower.

 

There will be long-term changes.

 

 

 

Ian

 

No worries OK! 

 

Indeed a rethink is needed. I sit here going crazy because I have lost a lot of work. But I'm also trying to stay positive. Only look at good news. Trying to think of new ways to earn money with my camera. Send off around 3000 images that haven't been sent anywhere.

 

Go and challenge yourself to do something different with your camera. You're an intelligent guy and so I'm sure you can be challenged.

 

 

[geogphotos]

3 minutes ago, Jools Elliott said:

 

Ian

 

No worries OK! 

 

Indeed a rethink is needed. I sit here going crazy because I have lost a lot of work. But I'm also trying to stay positive. Only look at good news. Trying to think of new ways to earn money with my camera. Send off around 3000 images that haven't been sent anywhere.

 

Go and challenge yourself to do something different with your camera. You're an intelligent guy and so I'm sure you can be challenged.

 

 

 

 

Oh I have plenty to do. I have a mountain of slides to scan and a website to sort out. Also a mountain of 'tagging' etc at Alamy

 

Just bought a new macro lens for that very purpose of keeping busy at home.

Edited March 28, 2020 by geogphotos

[Jools Elliott]

1 minute ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Oh I have plenty to do. I have a mountain of slides to scan and a website to sort out. Also a mountain of 'tagging' etc at Alamy

 

Just bought a new macro lens for that very purpose.

 

There you go!

 

I'm like you. i want to go out and start doing stuff. problem is if i do that it will add to the already HUGE mountain.

 

Go have fun with that macro lens and discover a new world! Oh, and find a way to stabilize it so you can do focus stacking. Now there's a challenge for you!

[geogphotos]

Just now, Jools Elliott said:

 

There you go!

 

I'm like you. i want to go out and start doing stuff. problem is if i do that it will add to the already HUGE mountain.

 

Go have fun with that macro lens and discover a new world! Oh, and find a way to stabilize it so you can do focus stacking. Now there's a challenge for you!

 

You know me well enough to throw in that last comment!

 

At least you backed off urging me to do video 😄

[Jools Elliott]

2 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

You know me well enough to throw in that last comment!

 

At least you backed off urging me to do video 😄

 

Course I know you well enough Ian! I know that sticking a camera on a tripod is about as likely as me going to Vietnam tomorrow. It ain't going to happen!

 

But! And here's a thought for you, and I guarantee you will earn your money back, go and buy the table top tripod from Manfrotto. You can stick it in your pocket as it's that small. Costs about £25. It will enable you to slightly bend your own rules.