Thyrsis Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said: And I paid part of my City Council Tax yesterday. But I want to talk with them about the 25% discount for single occupancy before paying the rest. It’s $99 a month to be paid every three months. We pay £307 a month!! Council tax is calculated on the old rateable value of the property so although we get no more amenities for our money than anyone else we pay much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Wow . . . I didn't know anything about a LCCT until the bill arrived. I'll assume your place is larger. I would have to head for South East Asia if I had to pay that. The best bargain I've come across in Liverpool (or anywhere I've been) is a selection of reading glasses in nice solid frames for 1 pound . . . at Poundland. Edited January 15, 2020 by Ed Rooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty LaRue Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Thyrsis said: We pay £307 a month!! Council tax is calculated on the old rateable value of the property so although we get no more amenities for our money than anyone else we pay much more. Help me understand this. Is that (council tax) like property tax? Why would somebody who’s renting have to pay tax? In the U.S., if you own property, a house or land, you pay yearly property tax on it. If you rent, you have no property tax. You pay your rent each month, and your utilities if they’re not included in the rent. Nowadays, most renters put down a deposit, refundable when you leave the rental if there’s no damage. But no tax. Betty ok, I’ve read up on it. My understanding is that if you live in a house or property with multiple tenants, the landlord pays it, not the tenant. Right? Edited January 16, 2020 by Betty LaRue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyrsis Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Betty LaRue said: Help me understand this. Is that (council tax) like property tax? Why would somebody who’s renting have to pay tax? In the U.S., if you own property, a house or land, you pay yearly property tax on it. If you rent, you have no property tax. You pay your rent each month, and your utilities if they’re not included in the rent. Nowadays, most renters put down a deposit, refundable when you leave the rental if there’s no damage. But no tax. Betty ok, I’ve read up on it. My understanding is that if you live in a house or property with multiple tenants, the landlord pays it, not the tenant. Right? 5 hours ago, Betty LaRue said: Help me understand this. Is that (council tax) like property tax? Why would somebody who’s renting have to pay tax? In the U.S., if you own property, a house or land, you pay yearly property tax on it. If you rent, you have no property tax. You pay your rent each month, and your utilities if they’re not included in the rent. Nowadays, most renters put down a deposit, refundable when you leave the rental if there’s no damage. But no tax. Betty ok, I’ve read up on it. My understanding is that if you live in a house or property with multiple tenants, the landlord pays it, not the tenant. Right? Hi Betty, Council tax is payable, to your local council who set the rate, if you rent or own your property. There are 8 bands and you pay according to the value of the property. The tax covers ‘Local services such as planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards.’ In a rental, If the whole property is rented out on a single contract the tenant pays. If the property is split into several units with separate tenancy agreements the landlord pays. Edited January 16, 2020 by Thyrsis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Ed Rooney said: this includes free perceptions Knowing a bit about your wry sense of humour Ed this is probably a deliberate typo, but anyway I very much like the idea of 'free perceptions'. They can't take those away can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Yeah, Harry, that one is a little funny and not deliberate. But having the system decide what I want to say is less funny. I'll try to remember to use Rx or just meds in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 11 hours ago, John Morrison said: Glad to hear you're making sense of the British way of doing things. Sort out your 'single occupancy' asap, re council tax, at your local council office, so you get the 25% discount. I don't have a TV - hurled it down the cellar steps 20 years ago - but Amazon Prime offers me the occasional film and TV series. I can watch - and re-watch - Seinfeld and Parks & recreation... "hured it down the steps" is indeed harsh criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 "Free perceptions", did'nt know he'd been arrested??😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: 'free perceptions'. I didn't know Ed was on psychoactives. Far out, Ed, man. You're probably not alone in Liverpool. Edited January 16, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCat Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Thyrsis said: Hi Betty, Council tax is payable, to your local council who set the rate, if you rent or own your property. There are 8 bands and you pay according to the value of the property. The tax covers ‘Local services such as planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards.’ In a rental, If the whole property is rented out on a single contract the tenant pays. If the property is split into several units with separate tenancy agreements the landlord pays. Sounds to me like Ed shouldn't have to pay the tax??? Unless he is renting a distinct and separate building. That doesn't seem terribly likely in a big city like Liverpool. Renters in NYC can be paying tax as part of their rent but it is possibly refundable when they do state tax returns. Paulette Edited January 16, 2020 by NYCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, NYCat said: Sounds to me like Ed shouldn't have to pay the tax??? Unless he is renting a distinct and separate building. That doesn't seem terribly likely in a big city like Liverpool. Renters in NYC can be paying tax as part of their rent but it is possibly refundable when they do state tax returns. Paulette Very unlikely. As I see it the regulations are intentionally much simpler than those relating to US property tax. The presumption is that a resident is personally liable, and as I assume Ed has had a bill addressed to him personally, that's an end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Edo, for info on the 25% discount (for single occupancy), start here. Or visit your local council offices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyrsis Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, NYCat said: Sounds to me like Ed shouldn't have to pay the tax??? Unless he is renting a distinct and separate building. That doesn't seem terribly likely in a big city like Liverpool. Paulette Hi Paulette, Assuming Ed has his own front door, bathroom, cooking facilities etc I think the property will count as an individual dwelling and be taxable. A bedsit in a shared property wouldn’t be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Watched Dan Cruickshank on the development, decline and revival of Liverpool's terraced housing stock last night. Looked to be opportunities for stock shooting around that topic, but, and it's many moons since I dwelt in Liverpool and things will be different, you might require an armed guard in some of the areas involved. Edited January 16, 2020 by Bryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Thyrsis said: In a rental, If the whole property is rented out on a single contract the tenant pays. If the property is split into several units with separate tenancy agreements the landlord pays. So - if there is only one renter of a property the landlord/owner pays no tax?? Is this some kind of government incentive/subsidy for single-renter property development/ownership and encourage multi-renter higher density rental housing? Edited January 16, 2020 by Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Devon Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, Phil said: So - if there is only one renter of a property the landlord/owner pays no tax?? Is this some kind of government incentive/subsidy for single-renter property development/ownership and encourage multi-renter higher density rental housing? Its not the landlord/owner why has to pay council tax. You pay if you own or rent a home - You pay it to cover the council services that you receive. Its based on 2 adults living in a property - so there is a discount if there is only a single adult https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/who-has-to-pay Interestingly.... I see diplomats are not classified as Adults! Jools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Phil said: Is this some kind of government incentive/subsidy for single-renter property development/ownership and encourage multi-renter higher density rental housing? No. It's the latest version of a centuries-old system of local taxation based on rental value. In fact, it's older than the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinS Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 47 minutes ago, Phil said: So - if there is only one renter of a property the landlord/owner pays no tax?? Is this some kind of government incentive/subsidy for single-renter property development/ownership and encourage multi-renter higher density rental housing? Phil, There seems to be an increasing trend here in the US for "user pays" in things like parks, museums, some roads, etc. We now pay to visit the Maine State Museum here to see our own stuff. Same with State Parks in this state. More to the point, I'm sure that landlords in the UK pay tax on the property they reside on. Rather than have a landlord pay tax and pass the cost on to the tenant, the tenant pays directly. This seems cleaner to me than making the owner pay for services the tenant receives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, spacecadet said: No. It's the latest version of a centuries-old system of local taxation based on rental value. In fact, it's older than the USA. Understand. Just seems somewhat inequitable that a single renter pays the tax instead of property owner whereas rentals split among several tenets the property owner pays the tax if I'm understanding it correctly. We have "property appraisal" authorities to determine property taxable values and the tax rates that ignores if the property is rental or not. Here the "council/property" tax is always paid by the property owner. Of course the tax is reflected in rental rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, KevinS said: . This seems cleaner to me than making the owner pay for services the tenant receives. Perhaps - but IMO property taxes are a direct cost of property ownership unrelated to owner or tenet community services which either pay for separately based on need or want. Property values in many areas usually appreciate - sometimes substantially. If the tenet pays the tax directly instead of the owner the tenet doesn't t get to participate in the properties value appreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Phil said: Just seems somewhat inequitable that a single renter pays the tax instead of property owner whereas rentals split among several tenets the property owner pays the tax if I'm understanding it correctly. I don't think you are, and the fairness of the council tax is generally accepted, but 20 minutes ago, Phil said: Of course the tax is reflected in rental rates. that's what makes it equitable. The landlord recovers his payment by adding it to the rent. 23 minutes ago, Phil said: ignores if the property is rental or not. So does council tax. It is based ultimately on rental value but that's not the same thing. If you're really interested see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rates_in_the_United_Kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyrsis Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 As spacecadet says, if there are several tenants the landlord will pay the council tax and get this back from the tenants in their rent. The tax is per property so there would be no easy way of splitting the amount due between several people. If you own or rent a property you are liable to pay the tax yourself. And if you are a landlord but your property is vacant for any reason you are liable to pay the tax, even though no-one is using the services the tax pays for!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 I paid my Council Tax today. Went to their office (One Stop) and arranged for the 25% reduction and paid for three month. It comes to a very reasonable 98 Sterling a month and I'm happy to do my part in keeping up the services in this city, my city now. I also got more familiar with my UK bank account today and will soon be able to change my phone plan to be able to call the States. So things are moving forward. I had a bump in the road with my Rx again today but it will be worked out. I go in for a checkup tomorrow. Thank you to all my fellow UK residents in the forum for your very helpful advice. Edo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty LaRue Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Here, if I own a rental house, I pay property tax. So I would figure that in when I set the monthly rental rate. But it wouldn’t matter if one person rented or a family of five. The owner pays one non-discounted price, (yearly) does the math by dividing by 12, then passes it on with the monthly rental price. So a discount like Ed is eligible for in Liverpool (or UK) never applies. State taxes and sales taxes takes care of fire services, libraries and such. Parks are covered unless National parks, those are federal, some are free, most aren’t these days. When we lived in another town years ago, we fished on a big lake 10 minutes from home. Also water skied. It was free, but there was a small fee for camping. Now, there are fees to fish or use the lake at all. When I’ve driven down and gone in to photograph, I tell the gatekeeper my purpose, and he allows me in free. You can’t go home again. Nothing stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said: You can’t go home again. That must make commuting a nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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