John Mitchell Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 54 minutes ago, losdemas said: Tending to agree... Me too. Number of licenses plus the trend -- e.g. below average, average, above average -- are the most helpful things to hear about, along with any better than average ($100+) sales. Think I'll make this my policy (no gross $) from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 8 hours ago, losdemas said: Tending to agree... +1 I think. Although it was interesting to see how the averages compared with mine, I never quoted my own, and by now of course we all know how they compare. So just a note on how averages are holding up is enough, I think. I probably used to withhold figures out of embarrassment really. No need to be embarrassed with a number with no $ sign in front. Perhaps whoever starts the threads in future can just add- "just the numbers" or some such phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 9 hours ago, spacecadet said: +1 I think. Although it was interesting to see how the averages compared with mine, I never quoted my own, and by now of course we all know how they compare. So just a note on how averages are holding up is enough, I think. I probably used to withhold figures out of embarrassment really. No need to be embarrassed with a number with no $ sign in front. Perhaps whoever starts the threads in future can just add- "just the numbers" or some such phrase. We could always have a parallel "How embarrassing was your month?" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Good idea therefore i am going with .. 2 x sales Very below average Fees low to middle Done ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandyD Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, geogphotos said: I disagree with this. I find it informative to see how much somebody has earned in gross figures and then see how many images they have and what they are like.It also shows an approximate RPI if you add up the totals. With that information you can compare you own results with others and attempt some sort of conclusions. Reporting above or below average is essentially meaningless because every month can only be one of three things and each individual will assess it differently. I am also rather embarrassed at times when reporting my gross sales but that is the reality of the situation we are in. If I conclude that others are doing better (and worse) I get an insight into how I might do better. I agree with Geog on this one...it has some interesting metrics, and when sampled, well it's incredibly useful information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I agree that seeing the $ amounts alongside sales numbers, etc. can be useful, especially for new contributors. I certainly don't mind sharing my gross income amounts (embarrassing or not). Perhaps the cat is already out of the bag, and it's no longer possible to catch her and put her back in. If there were a "contributors only" section of the forum, then the problem would be solved. But we've been there many times to no avail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandyD Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, John Mitchell said: I agree that seeing the $ amounts alongside sales numbers, etc. can be useful, especially for new contributors. I certainly don't mind sharing my gross income amounts (embarrassing or not). Perhaps the cat is already out of the bag, and it's no longer possible to catch her and put her back in. If there were a "contributors only" section of the forum, then the problem would be solved. But we've been there many times to no avail... Being a stats nerd...I have been tracking a sampling, I am happy to share those metrics with anyone....it helps me know what I need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, John Mitchell said: I agree that seeing the $ amounts alongside sales numbers, etc. can be useful, especially for new contributors. I certainly don't mind sharing my gross income amounts (embarrassing or not). Perhaps the cat is already out of the bag, and it's no longer possible to catch her and put her back in. If there were a "contributors only" section of the forum, then the problem would be solved. But we've been there many times to no avail... Exactly. I've pursued this before, but, as you suggest, Alamy have made it clear that they do not want a private section of the forum for members to discuss things like this. A shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, losdemas said: Exactly. I've pursued this before, but, as you suggest, Alamy have made it clear that they do not want a private section of the forum for members to discuss things like this. A shame. Totally a shame. I guess they see more cons than pros to having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandyD Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, John Mitchell said: Totally a shame. I guess they see more cons than pros to having one. anything to stop us from organization a private thread somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reimar Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, MandyD said: I agree with Geog on this one...it has some interesting metrics, and when sampled, well it's incredibly useful information I am going to join the more info is more group. Above or below average doesn't mean much to me. I usually skip posts that give no specifics. I don't see the harm in being specific. I think alamy like to post gross sales milestones for some people. Why not us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, John Mitchell said: Totally a shame. I guess they see more cons than pros to having one. I can't imagine what the cons could be. But I also surmise that they don't see revealing our sales prices as a problem. After all, if a small buyer said to Alamy, "Hey, I'm paying X but s/he's paying Y" Alamy would likely say, "Yeah, but they're buying 100/whatever images per month". I'm with Reimar on this - the average for an individual means next to nothing to me. I'm interested in net earnings (my averages are definitely on the low side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, MandyD said: anything to stop us from organization a private thread somewhere else? There is already a FB group. Not sure it's kosher to discuss it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 6 hours ago, geogphotos said: I disagree with this. I find it informative to see how much somebody has earned in gross figures and then see how many images they have and what they are like.It also shows an approximate RPI if you add up the totals. With that information you can compare you own results with others and attempt some sort of conclusions. Reporting above or below average is essentially meaningless because every month can only be one of three things and each individual will assess it differently. I am also rather embarrassed at times when reporting my gross sales but that is the reality of the situation we are in. If I conclude that others are doing better (and worse) I get an insight into how I might do better. I can't see any point in pretending that things are better than they are or trying to hide the true situation. +1 +1 +1 wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 7 hours ago, geogphotos said: I can't see any point in pretending that things are better than they are or trying to hide the true situation. -1 I can see many. But then I have a vivid imagination. ;-) Like: it makes them feel good. Makes others miserable. Gets you free beer in the pub. Gets you free whatever at home. Cheaper than going to a movie about a photographer. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nacke Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Cryptoprocta said: I can't imagine what the cons could be. But I also surmise that they don't see revealing our sales prices as a problem. After all, if a small buyer said to Alamy, "Hey, I'm paying X but s/he's paying Y" Alamy would likely say, "Yeah, but they're buying 100/whatever images per month". I'm with Reimar on this - the average for an individual means next to nothing to me. I'm interested in net earnings (my averages are definitely on the low side). Contributors do not have enough information to cause a client to say "Hey, I'm paying X but s/he's paying Y." I am not suggesting that contributors post all sales information, the information that Alamy provides or that contributors post on the form would have very little effect on the daily business of Alamy, in my opinion. P.S. June was just OK, but July is looking up and this year the license fees have improved a bit. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACC Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, geogphotos said: The main purpose of the forum is that it helps Alamy. It means that newbies are helped, and questions get answered. It takes pressure off Contributor Relations or whatever it is called now. Also, a lot of potential conspiracy theories get challenged and laid to out in the fresh air rather than festering away and multiplying in the darkness! Whether helping newbies and answering questions helps us as individuals depends on your opinion, but I am grateful to receive help and so like to try and reciprocate. Personally I have had enough of private forums - I much prefer this one with Alamy's usually light-touch oversight. Back to the topic. I'd like it personally if everybody posted 'number of sales + gross'. I find it useful to know what figures we are working with and what can be achieved by those better/more successful than me. Rather than us all putting up our numbers individually with subjective comments I’d like to see alamy publish some data. Anonymised analysis ie count of contributors who sold 0-25, 26-50, 50+ images for gross revenue <100, <200, <300 etc. Per month and per year categories. Plus some trending going back 1year, 5 years, 10 years. That would be way more useful than us trying to draw conclusions from a subset of contributors who visit this forum, Have alamy ever been approached to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I've found the sales figures very useful. It helps me to identify which contributors are the most successful on Alamy and then try to learn from their portfolio and give additional weight to their forum postings. So, in the spirit of mutual co-operation, I tend to post my volume, gross, and net. 18 minutes ago, geogphotos said: I totally understand and appreciate any non-sharing. +1 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 OK. 9 sales, $244 gross, 2 small distros. I don't work out my monthly net, just what goes in the bank, so just stating distro numbers. BTW what's with the flock of reds on some innocuous posts?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said: June was just OK, but July is looking up and this year the license fees have improved a bit. Chuck Very happy with June - record number of sales if not record income - and I agree, July is looking good and average fees do seem to be going up. Five quite nice ones already today before coffee break (well, third coffee break) Most of the improvement for me is coming from quite recent images - those who stop contributing due to falling sales may well be starting their own downward spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, spacecadet said: OK. 9 sales, $244 gross, 2 small distros. I don't work out my monthly net, just what goes in the bank, so just stating distro numbers. BTW what's with the flock of reds on some innocuous posts?! Flock of Reds - weren't they big in the 80s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike ford Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 30/06/2018 at 15:28, Alan Beastall said: UK weather. "Its Spring and the grass needs cutting". Used twice for $198 and again in my back garden. So there is no reason to travel far to get saleable images. Alan made me smile alan cheers fab pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 hours ago, funkyworm said: It is interesting to see the exact figures, but those who do post them are publishing details of their income on to a public forum, i.e. accessable by anyone. Which means... anyone. And whilst I think the vast majority of contributors have nothing to hide from the taxman or benefits authorities or, or, or... it also doesn;t take to long to think of people for whom details of our individual income is none of their business. That has never been an issue for me, because I was a teacher, and all anyone had to do was look up the relevant government website and they'd know what I earned down to the last penny. e.g. https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/61ef278b-c5a0-4a55-b834e9ead0fd3912.pdf That said I agree with Iain: sharing is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Cryptoprocta said: That has never been an issue for me, because I was a teacher, and all anyone had to do was look up the relevant government website and they'd know what I earned down to the last penny. e.g. https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/61ef278b-c5a0-4a55-b834e9ead0fd3912.pdf That said I agree with Iain: sharing is optional. I think Funky means to refer to photographers running their own businesses- self-employed so not taxed at source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Phil Robinson said: Flock of Reds - weren't they big in the 80s? They appear to be making a comeback. Odd that this would be a touchy discussion for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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