RF and DACS

[John Mitchell]

A question for those who license their images mainly as RF: How does it affect your DACS claim if you file it yourself?

 

Does Alamy supply enough info for you to include RF licenses in your annual DACS claim?

 

 

[spacecadet]

As I understand it Alamy doesn't supply any license info. Unless you let them claim and take their cut you don't get anything for RF images.

If you self-claim obviously you can only claim for what you find yourself, so it's only worth letting Alamy doing it if the RF claims would take it into a higher category.

Thinking of taking images over to RF?

[Reimar]

No.  Only iQ sales of RF images have sufficient info.

Since DACS is intent on withholding UK tax from me against our Canadian tax treaty, I'm softening on letting alamy handle the hassle.

[John Mitchell]

No.  Only iQ sales of RF images have sufficient info.

Since DACS is intent on withholding UK tax from me against our Canadian tax treaty, I'm softening on letting alamy handle the hassle.

 

As discussed earlier, this doesn't make sense. DACS does not withhold UK tax from my payment.

 

I have never listed any RF sales in my DACS claim -- i.e. mine have all been RM. Could that be making a difference in our situations, for some obscure reason?

[Klinger]

DACS takes 20% for the UK government in my payments last two years. I'm in the USA.

 

I file myself and do detailed reporting using this link https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=photo+yournamehere

 

yes you need the + in that link. For some it might be less effort and easy reporting to just let Alamy do the work. I have many RF sales from other sources. Some done by myself. Used to have some to Canada on my own also.

 

I copy the ISBN numbers and proof that I sold licenses to images in that publication.

 

I did gather some data for myself from Alamy, I assume it works, I get paid?

 

Not saying it's the answer for everyone, just that it works for me and yes they take 20% unless you file a special form to the USA IRS and they OK it and forward to the UK tax bureau. I sent my w-9 my EID and a form, DACS says I still needed the approved form from the IRA or I'm going to be charged the 20%

[Marianne]

When I have RF images that were licensed to the UK, if they are iQ sales they have info but for all of them I do a reverse image search and I also search by my name on the amazon UK site for books. Recently, I started using Pixsy and they found some more uses for me that qualify. But a lot of my RF images can't be found. Since I have licensed images directly and via other sites for UK books and magazines, so far I'm doing it myself. 

 

Re Tax Withholding: If you're in the US, the form you need to file with the IRS which they then send to HM Revenue and Customs costs $85 and has to be filed anew every year. I was going to do it the first year I collected from DACS but when I realized the cost, I figured that I should see how much I collected first figuring it wouldn't be over $425, the break-even point. So far it's cheaper to pay the 20% than file. Looking forward to the day when it's worth filing to get the tax back. 

 

EDIT: Actually I was wrong about the RF sale I alluded to earlier, it was for a different image. The image in the book hasn't been invoiced yet. It would be so nice if we knew where our work was going - and even nicer if the publishers self-billed properly. I found a re-use of two of my RM images in searching for DACS, and that's where RM is definitely preferable to RF. 

[John Mitchell]

When I have RF images that were licensed to the UK, if they are iQ sales they have info but for all of them I do a reverse image search and I also search by my name on the amazon UK site for books. Recently, I started using Pixsy and they found some more uses for me that qualify. But a lot of my RF images can't be found. Since I have licensed images directly and via other sites for UK books and magazines, so far I'm doing it myself.

 

Re Tax Withholding: If you're in the US, the form you need to file with the IRS which they then send to HM Revenue and Customs costs $85 and has to be filed anew every year. I was going to do it the first year I collected from DACS but when I realized the cost, I figured that I should see how much I collected first figuring it wouldn't be over $425, the break-even point. So far it's cheaper to pay the 20% than file. Looking forward to the day when it's worth filing to get the tax back.

 

With more personal use sales showing up, I'm more inclined than ever to make my images RM. In searching for DACS, I found one of my RF images in a book and also two companion calendars (in the 1,000 Places to See Before You Die series) and it was licensed for only $35. Comparing that to a similar book sale (DK Eyewitness Guide) with one time use only where the photo was used as a page in the book and also in the frontispiece, they paid for each use $70 + $30, not a stellar sale but still better than $35 for an image they can now use over and over again.

I might be inclined to convert more images to editorial RF if Alamy started supplying complete info with RF sales so that we could file our DACS claims easily. Perhaps this is something that Alamy should consider if they now prefer us to offer images as RF. Just a thought...

[hotbrightsky]

Here is some advice from DACS for photographers wishing to make their own claim, but whose agencies insist on withholding the necessary licensing information. They accept sales reports in place of ISBN/ISSN information:

 

 

Publications:

• To claim directly for agency sales download a sales report listing all your sales prior to December 2015 (for the Payback 2016 campaign).
• Go through these sales reports and look for any UK books or magazines. UK must be stated in order for it to be eligible for a claim.
• Count the number of these and use this information to complete your Payback claim form.
• In the example fields on your Claim Form either enter ISBN numbers and titles if you have them or ‘Sales report 2015’.
• We accept sales reports in lieu of examples. Once your claim has been submitted please forward your sales report, with eligible publications highlighted, to payback@dacs.org.uk to validate your claim

TV:

• ​For the TV section please add up TV licenses covering 2015 and add these to your direct claim. The TV channel must be stated on the sales report.
• As an example enter ‘Sales report 2015’ in the example field.
• ​We accept sales reports in lieu of examples. Once your claim has been submitted please forward your sales report, with eligible publications highlighted, to payback@dacs.org.uk to validate your claim.

You can add other agency sales to the same claim and also works you have licensed yourselves.

 

In short there is no excuse for Alamy claiming their 50% cut, especially if they use the same method with no additional research expense.

[John Mitchell]

Alamy says that their clients prefer RF licensing, which is understandable, but do they actually buy more RF than RM images given that Alamy is very good at designing "hybrid" RM licenses with flexible usage terms. That's the question that comes to my mind.

[Cryptoprocta]

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

[John Richmond]

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

I regularly have sales to an UK gardening magazine and they are always reported as worldwide.  Makes me wonder how many other UK sales are similarly reported.

[regen]

"I regularly have sales to an UK gardening magazine and they are always reported as worldwide. Makes me wonder how many other UK sales are similarly reported."

 

Many magazines are available for sale in the all or some parts of the world which is maybe why they report as worldwide. Alamy is the only agency i work with that does not give me sufficient info for DACS claim wether its books,mags or TV. They are also the only agency which retains 50% plus expenses but refuses to tell me how much they retain for expenses.

 

Regen

[M.Chapman]

Here is some advice from DACS for photographers wishing to make their own claim, but whose agencies insist on withholding the necessary licensing information. They accept sales reports in place of ISBN/ISSN information:

 

 

Publications:

• To claim directly for agency sales download a sales report listing all your sales prior to December 2015 (for the Payback 2016 campaign).
• Go through these sales reports and look for any UK books or magazines. UK must be stated in order for it to be eligible for a claim.
• Count the number of these and use this information to complete your Payback claim form.
• In the example fields on your Claim Form either enter ISBN numbers and titles if you have them or ‘Sales report 2015’.
• We accept sales reports in lieu of examples. Once your claim has been submitted please forward your sales report, with eligible publications highlighted, to payback@dacs.org.uk to validate your claim

You can add other agency sales to the same claim and also works you have licensed yourselves.

 

In short there is no excuse for Alamy claiming their 50% cut, especially if they use the same method with no additional research expense.

 

Note: I believe the above doesn't apply if you want to put in an additional claim for part of the DACS extra 10% pot. The Excel spreadsheet entitled "Payback 2017 Publication History Claim Form.xlsx" from DACS requires the book or magazine title and ideally the ISBN or ISSN number to be entered for every publication that you want to include in your claim. I get the impression DACS are forwarding our forms to CLA who will (automatically?) cross-reference the entries against the CLA's list of photocopied publications to determine the share of the 10% pot. If the publication name or ISBN/ISSN number is omitted then they won't get a match.

[Stokie]

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

 

Obviously worldwide can include the UK, so I always include those sales in my DACS spreadsheet claim.

 

John.

[Allan Bell]

 

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

 

Obviously worldwide can include the UK, so I always include those sales in my DACS spreadsheet claim.

 

John.

 

 

 

+1

 

Allan

[John Mitchell]

 

 

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

 

Obviously worldwide can include the UK, so I always include those sales in my DACS spreadsheet claim.

 

John.

 

 

 

+1

 

Allan

 

 

I don't include them because "Worldwide" isn't shown in the "Region" column. I only see UK, EU, US, and ROW.

 

If I did include every sale that mentioned "Worldwide" in the licensing terms, my DACS claim would be much, much larger than it is now.

[John Mitchell]

 

Interestingly, although DACS say it must be UK - when I got Alamy's figures, they were considerably higher than my own, and in fact corresponded with 'worldwide' reports on my sales csv.

(Still, my take doing it myself was more than 50% of Alamy's submission would have been)

 

I enquired about that to both Alamy and DACS (in a cc'd email) and got no reply from either.

I regularly have sales to an UK gardening magazine and they are always reported as worldwide.  Makes me wonder how many other UK sales are similarly reported.

 

 

However, those worldwide UK gardening mag sales should show up as "UK" in the "Region" column of your sales report. No?

 

I just make my way down the "Region" column and delete everything but UK sales -- i.e. US, EU and ROW. I then delete the newspaper, website, etc. licenses, leaving only books and mags. .

[Betty LaRue]

Since I'm converting a certain number of my images to RF, I'm turning my DACS claim over to Alamy. Let them sort it out.

 

Reason? Just look at all the posts about figuring it out over the last few years. Claiming, and all that's involved, has always bee hard for me. I didn't even claim last year for that reason.

50% is better than nothing.

Betty

[hotbrightsky]

 

Note: I believe the above doesn't apply if you want to put in an additional claim for part of the DACS extra 10% pot. The Excel spreadsheet entitled "Payback 2017 Publication History Claim Form.xlsx" from DACS requires the book or magazine title and ideally the ISBN or ISSN

 

 

That may be correct. I remain unconvinced that Alamy's staff actively research ISBN/ISSN numbers to justify their percentage.

[John Mitchell]

Since I'm converting a certain number of my images to RF, I'm turning my DACS claim over to Alamy. Let them sort it out.

 

Reason? Just look at all the posts about figuring it out over the last few years. Claiming, and all that's involved, has always bee hard for me. I didn't even claim last year for that reason.

50% is better than nothing.

Betty

 

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to spreadsheets, Betty, but I always always find DACS claims easy as pie, especially now that I've got everything set up from previous years. I spent less than an hour preparing and filing my claim for 2016.

 

That said, I don't have any RF sales to worry about.

[tarsierspectral]

Since I'm converting a certain number of my images to RF, I'm turning my DACS claim over to Alamy. Let them sort it out.

 

Reason? Just look at all the posts about figuring it out over the last few years. Claiming, and all that's involved, has always bee hard for me. I didn't even claim last year for that reason.

50% is better than nothing.

Betty

Since I've claimed in the previous years, everything is already set up in he DACS system, so all I have to do is hit the next button, it takes half a minute to submit.

[John Mitchell]

 

Since I'm converting a certain number of my images to RF, I'm turning my DACS claim over to Alamy. Let them sort it out.

 

Reason? Just look at all the posts about figuring it out over the last few years. Claiming, and all that's involved, has always bee hard for me. I didn't even claim last year for that reason.

50% is better than nothing.

Betty

Since I've claimed in the previous years, everything is already set up in he DACS system, so all I have to do is hit the next button, it takes half a minute to submit.

 

 

Same here. My take on the "Worldwide" thing is that books and mags published in a specific country or area -- in this case the UK -- will  ask for "Worldwide" rights to cover international distribution. The "Region" column in the sales report indicates where the book or magazine has actually been published -- UK, EU, US or somewhere in the rest of the world ROW.