Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Railway byelaws: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf I can't find any mention of photography. They could apply some of the byelaws when you are on site to restrict your photographic activity (health and safety in particular) but I can't see any restrictions relating to photographs that would apply after you have left the site. this link http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx?cd=1 yes chris - thats the link that started all this - but its only a statement and nothing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 For example, the one photograph of mine that is to be removed is a grab shot of a steam locomotive which happened to pass through Bristol Temple Meads while I was waiting for a connecting train. I did not delay my journey to take the photograph so I was not loitering and had a valid ticket so was not trespassing. Is the station identifiable? If not, the only way they found it is by its name. You know what they say about omitting location from keywords if it's not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I might also submit a Freedom of Information Request (FOI) to Network Rail asking for a breakdown of licences issued to photographers by station. I might also ask for details of the photography related IPR that they hold. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/FOI/ great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/5165-network-rail-the-rail-transport-company/?p=87612 NR say they're not subject to the FOI but claim to respond to requests as if they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 A picture of Gare du Nord Paris? Gare du Nord?? Paris?? France?? Do they manage Gare du Nord? Do their funny laws have any jurisdiction in France? Please guys leave the EU. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Does anybody know under what byelaws Network Rail are doing this? (Similar question to that relating to the National Trust). It can't be a contractual restriction (like say when you buy a ticket for a sporting event or concert) because some of my photos were taken from a position where I didn't need to have bought a ticket. Railway property is covered by the Railway Byelaws https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf When you buy a ticket you agree to the terms and conditions defined by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf As far as I can tell, neither has anything to say about photography. However, the byelaws prohibit loitering and the Railways Regulation Act of 1840 prohibits trespassing. My guess is that Network Rail can set conditions for enthusiasts who wish to hang around at the ends of platforms photographing trains as they are giving them permission to loiter. Whether they can apply those conditions to photographs taken by ticket-holding passengers while making a journey might be a different matter. For example, the one photograph of mine that is to be removed is a grab shot of a steam locomotive which happened to pass through Bristol Temple Meads while I was waiting for a connecting train. I did not delay my journey to take the photograph so I was not loitering and had a valid ticket so was not trespassing. Yes, I found that too and posted above. They have byelaws that they can apply while you are there to restrict your activity (quite rightly if used reasonably), but there is no byelaw that I can see that would restrict the use of photographs that you have already taken. (I'm just trying to eliminate various possible angles that they might take). And when I am on the concourse at Kings Cross I haven't bought a ticket so I haven't entered into a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 just sent my FOI request - kept it simple - I've asked for list of all image libraries that have been asked to remove images - and how many images by library they have asked to be removed - should get the ball rolling don't forget to write to the Minister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/5165-network-rail-the-rail-transport-company/?p=87612 NR say they're not subject to the FOI but claim to respond to requests as if they were. Not true. They became subject to the FOI after 24 March 2015. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/FOI/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I haven't bought a ticket so I haven't entered into a contract. You may have agreed to the conditions of entry. The consideration is the value you derive from being in the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I haven't bought a ticket so I haven't entered into a contract. You may have agreed to the conditions of entry. The consideration is the value you derive from being in the station. Nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 i wouldn't argue amongst ourselves - unless your a lawyer pressure is what works - make a noise, write,complain, etc etc make it public tell the press etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Westmacott Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I've had the email and had 36 images removed all of St Pancras, Eurostar and Waterloo. But having a quick search I've got more that have survived the cull, I wonder what they were searching for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Estall Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just entered "Liverpool Street Station" as an Alamy search; pages and pages with over half images of interiors. What criteria at work here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 i wouldn't argue amongst ourselves - unless your a lawyer pressure is what works - make a noise, write,complain, etc etc make it public tell the press etc .. send in photos.. I'll be writing this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Railway byelaws: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf I can't find any mention of photography. They could apply some of the byelaws when you are on site to restrict your photographic activity (health and safety in particular) but I can't see any restrictions relating to photographs that would apply after you have left the site. this link http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx?cd=1 yes chris - thats the link that started all this - but its only a statement and nothing more Sorry thought you hadn't seen it, I have asked Alamy for a contact who has asked for removal, then maybe someone can check the legal justification and get a definitive "why images can be put on social media by anybody etc" but any freelance photographer can't put it on alamy, let alone sell it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I haven't bought a ticket so I haven't entered into a contract. You may have agreed to the conditions of entry. The consideration is the value you derive from being in the station. Nonsense! You're entitled to disagree, of course. Which part do you disagree with- the conditions of entry or the consideration? IANAL but I think I can answer either. In any case I was surmising as to NR's justification. An opinion is hardly nonsense.....unless you know better. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just entered "Liverpool Street Station" as an Alamy search; pages and pages with over half images of interiors. What criteria at work here? I've had the email and had 36 images removed all of St Pancras, Eurostar and Waterloo. But having a quick search I've got more that have survived the cull, I wonder what they were searching for? Just checked my images and all have "network rail" as a tag along with the name of the station. Do yours have the same tag? The only other relevant tag is "Lime Street Station" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdh Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 same here, pictures removed . Cannot write to an MP either, as I am a German sitting in Germany. Looking forward to seeing what the outcome of Alamys review is. I also removed keywords from pictures that were not yet removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelal Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 A search for 'King's Cross Station' brings up 6007 images. Many are excellent interior shots of this beautifully rebuilt station. NR should be encouraging photographers to publicise this architectural jewel instead of an antagonising and banning them. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdh Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just entered "Liverpool Street Station" as an Alamy search; pages and pages with over half images of interiors. What criteria at work here? I've had the email and had 36 images removed all of St Pancras, Eurostar and Waterloo. But having a quick search I've got more that have survived the cull, I wonder what they were searching for? Just checked my images and all have "network rail" as a tag along with the name of the station. Do yours have the same tag? The only other relevant tag is "Lime Street Station" I had "London Bridge" as keyword. the one removed is F6ta3m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Estall Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 nope, "Network Rail" not in any of my entry fields. In the search for "Liverpool Street Station" only the last few pages offer Lime Street Liverpool. In all there are 3,012 results, well over 1,000 would be interiors of Liverpool Sation, London. Amazing I ever sold any! There must be a demand... Do Network Rail have any way of selling photos of these properties and hence raise revenue? or is this just a function of throwing their weight about/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have had 29 removed, many of which have had sales. On one occasion I asked for, and was given, permission. Should have got it signed off I guess. dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Mine from the Paris Gare du Nord had St Pancras in the keywords. My guess: the intern did it. wim edit: My caption (in caption-speak): Paris Gare du Nord Station with travelers under train departure board with Paris to London Eurostar schedule time table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I've had 14 images removed, but I fail to see how the front of a chain shop (in a concourse) can be a breach of NR's intellectual property. Still, I was thinking I should make more images to reflect the takeover of Scotrail by Albelli, so that's some fruitless effort saved, I'd have been mad if I'd gone to the bother and the pics had been removed afterwards. I just noticed last week that there are big signs all over a bus station I pass through regularly forbidding all photography, which didn't look new, but I only just noticed them. It put me in mind of big notices I saw in a UK station (but I can't remember which one) that I passed through in the last couple of years) saying they welcomed photography 'unlike other stations', as they had "nothing to hide". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have 5 deletions. It's coincidental but only one shows a train. The others are mostly of commuters within the station concourse. I wonder how the laws in Scotland may differ from those of the rest of the UK regarding IPR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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