Martin P Wilson Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 ... Most of the anguish on the forum relates to the concern that QC criteria being applied to mobile images will be lower than that applied usually and that all these images appear side by side in search results with little distinction or easy way to filter. Perhaps Alamy could give us some reassurance here. At the end of the day the TECHNICAL QUALITY of phones will be lower, at least for a few years yet. A phone camera cannot achieve even the quality of many cameras on the unapproved list. So for Alamy to accept them they have to lower the technical threshold so it is the inconsistency and double standards that I object to. I predicted months ago Alamy would have to go to crowd sourcing and to accept mobile phone images - I have NO PROBLEM with the images that are achievable on a phone; I have seen some fabulous images from phones but I would not expect to put them up on my wall as a large statement piece. The direction that mass market stock, and news, photography is going I believe it is effectively dead (or will be within 2 years) as a viable source of income. It will not provide a viable return on investment on professional camera kit. I seriously believe it will end up like clip art and be something no one pays for; and I don't think it will be long. I remember clip art collections getting sensible prices, then "free" stuff started appearing on disks on front of magazines and then it was suddenly gone as a product, probably happened in less then two years even before the Internet. As a result of the collapse of my Alamy income in 2013, despite more considered effort I am well into rethinking where I go with my photography and writing. I now do not envisage submitting much, if any, new stock to Alamy. Perhaps occasional live news stuff for a while but I will keep a watching brief. All that said some photographers will continue to make excellent incomes but they will have something special but above all they be great at marketing and promoting their personal brand. Look at artists - are Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst really the most talented artists of their generation? I suspect they will be forgotten in a generation or less. To make a decent income from photography it will be back to assignment work and in-depth or long-term projects for which the vast majority, especially the "want it now" brigade (all ages) will not have access or patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Lawrence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 ... Most of the anguish on the forum relates to the concern that QC criteria being applied to mobile images will be lower than that applied usually and that all these images appear side by side in search results with little distinction or easy way to filter. Perhaps Alamy could give us some reassurance here. At the end of the day the TECHNICAL QUALITY of phones will be lower, at least for a few years yet. A phone camera cannot achieve even the quality of many cameras on the unapproved list. So for Alamy to accept them they have to lower the technical threshold so it is the inconsistency and double standards that I object to. I predicted months ago Alamy would have to go to crowd sourcing and to accept mobile phone images - I have NO PROBLEM with the images that are achievable on a phone; I have seen some fabulous images from phones but I would not expect to put them up on my wall as a large statement piece. The direction that mass market stock, and news, photography is going I believe it is effectively dead (or will be within 2 years) as a viable source of income. It will not provide a viable return on investment on professional camera kit. I seriously believe it will end up like clip art and be something no one pays for; and I don't think it will be long. I remember clip art collections getting sensible prices, then "free" stuff started appearing on disks on front of magazines and then it was suddenly gone as a product, probably happened in less then two years even before the Internet. As a result of the collapse of my Alamy income in 2013, despite more considered effort I am well into rethinking where I go with my photography and writing. I now do not envisage submitting much, if any, new stock to Alamy. Perhaps occasional live news stuff for a while but I will keep a watching brief. All that said some photographers will continue to make excellent incomes but they will have something special but above all they be great at marketing and promoting their personal brand. Look at artists - are Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst really the most talented artists of their generation? I suspect they will be forgotten in a generation or less. To make a decent income from photography it will be back to assignment work and in-depth or long-term projects for which the vast majority, especially the "want it now" brigade (all ages) will not have access or patience. I fully agree with this. I believe that the key issue is that clients is demanding, year by year, lower prices, and for some of their needs iPhone images will suit perfectly now or in a short period of time. It is sad but “The Times They Are A-Changin”, as always, and we need to adapt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan_Andison Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Very likely. I'd already set up a couple of direct contacts to sell mountain imagery.... I think I'll be moving towards expanding this this year as well as working on more creative imagery that I've been sending elsewhere. I was working on a batch of Istanbul shots for here but my heart isn't in it. I think I'll move on to my studio stuff again. To be honest, I don't know why I'm getting so frustrated with this place, it's not like I get much from them compared to elsewhere. In fact, they've probably done me a favour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Very likely. I'd already set up a couple of direct contacts to sell mountain imagery.... I think I'll be moving towards expanding this this year as well as working on more creative imagery that I've been sending elsewhere. I was working on a batch of Istanbul shots for here but my heart isn't in it. I think I'll move on to my studio stuff again. To be honest, I don't know why I'm getting so frustrated with this place, it's not like I get much from them compared to elsewhere. In fact, they've probably done me a favour! Alamy have certainly done me a favour as they have caused me to accelerate my decision making and other plans. As you say, my angst wasn't justified by the returns Alamy is now giving me; a few years ago, OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Brook Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The smartphone replaces or compliments the Lomo, Polaroid, cheap film compact, 35mm SLR loaded with very grainy film, funny old cameras with ancient lenses (as used by Bill Brandt), the early Leica went it wasn't a banker's toy, and any kiind of camera that frees you up for a while, gets you to see world differently - always loved by creative photographers, even those who know their studio lighting, optics and 10x8 camera movements back to front. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Lawrence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Alamy was never a photographic library because it opened its doors to every Tom, Dick or Harry who, irrespective of image content, could pass QC . I think Alamy has degenerated into a Car Boot Sale. Allegedly I am told that the Alamy management team would not know the difference between a dropped front and a tilted back. I am now so pleased I am no longer a supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihai Popa Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Many customers need images to illustrate their products on social networks. We need to understand this and compete with other photo-crowding apps. iPhone was chosen as the main platform for Stockimo due to good camera performance and many handsets already available on the market. Main issue in my opinion is that there is no split between mobile and professional camera content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Scammell Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I do not put my best work here. I would be crazy to do so. I send it elsewhere. With 45 million images on this site it simply isn't worth it. Alamy gets the stuff that I wouldn't put in my other picture libraries. Am I going to upload iPhone images? You bet. Why not? I find iPhone photography fun and liberating. I couldn't give a toss if a magazine decided to purchase one of my iPhone pics that is heavily filtered, full of grain and with blown highlights. I'd be more concerned with the amount they have paid for it (by the way I had my first iPhone image that I uploaded yesterday evening rejected a few mins ago.) Does it annoy me? Nope. I happened to take the image whilst enjoying a good pint in my local. Am I happy with the changes? No. I think it could have been handled in a far more professional way. Nevertheless Alamy have realised that there is a huge revenue stream that they can tap into - and I do not blame them whatsoever. Alamy is a business first and foremost not a repository for 'fine art' images. It's a case of pile it high and flog it cheap. If contributors really don't like it then they can leave. Not nice - but it's the simplest way for those who are vehemently complaining about changes. Sorry to be blunt but it really is a case of suck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Morley Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have recently been researching my wife’s great grandfather’s working life as a photographer working from the 1870s onwards. In the early part of his career he was working as a portrait photographer using the wet plate process. When the dry plate was invented it was a revolution, a bit like digital when compared with film. Suddenly, photography was so much easier to do and there was a great increase in the number of photographers setting up as professionals. But there was an great increase in markets for professional photographers, too, and the standard of living for photographers went up.I started out as an industrial photographer, using 5 x 4 and 6x6 in 1970. Over the years the market changed and I adapted, firstly with architectural photography, then landscape, continuing to use large and medium format. There were always good markets paying well. If one market dried up another could be found...... until digital came along! Fortunately, I am now retired and can now indulge myself shooting personal projects. But I really sympathsise for those continuing in the photographic profession, as diversifying is not as easy as it was, and renumeration is now so poor.I now enjoy using digital cameras, with their versatilty and easily-achieved quality. But now that ‘everyone and their dog’ can now use a digital camera or camera phone, the continuing downward trend of prices that results from oversupply is very worrying. Alamy has not helped with their implementation of iphone image sales. There really must be a clear distinction between iphone images, and the ‘quality’ images that have been through the traditional QC, as there is between Archival/Reportage, and the general collection. Also, Alamy, is it feasible to have some distinction on pricing between iphone images and ‘quality’ images? Otherwise I think it inevitable that prices will drop further when millions of iphone images are on the Alamy site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Edwards Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I just hope Alamy will not loose more clients than they'll gain by going the mediocre route. I truly wonder what Alamy's archive will look like in two years time, now that every 10 year old apparently got the message on his facebook that they can earn a few dollars AND perhaps see their "piece of art" published. Well, I certainly would have liked the idea to be a "pro photog" at the age of ten Cheers, Philippe See to be honest Philippe the photography snobbery and dividing it up into classes theme in this thread is actually embarrassing. Most people are assuming that all that's going to be uploaded to Stockimo is pure dross. That's probably thee most offensive mindset to have and not to mention that it shows real fear of the unknown and a stubbornness to go with the flow or accept it. Why is it so difficult to absorb that someone with an iPhone can't be classed as a photographer, let alone a 10 year old one? My 14 year old daughter uses my camera sometimes. I embrace it, I let her do what she wants. With the theme of this thread I should be telling her to get better gear, take pics for over ten years and then come back to get your 'photographer' badge. There's a few that need to get off their high horse and come back down to earth. It's not the same world it was 10 years ago. It's starting to sound a lot like a gentleman's club in here where the women and children are retired to the colouring in room while the experience of man and his photography is glorified and no-one should be allowed in. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shergar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What disappoints me is once again Alamy is following the rest. According to James West . Only if you’d been on a mission to the moon would you have missed the phenomenal success of Instagram .. Wouldn't it be nice for once to see a thread start "Wow thats a great idea no one else is doing that". He says "Smartphone Photography is everywhere" seems to me it has been for years but only now does Alamy decide to feed from the trough. Lets face it for the 50% Alamy gets, most of us earthlings could manage to follow the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrioticAlien Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 So today as is said in past comments i would try it today. So today I was in raining/overcast typical London day, took a photo on my friends iPhone 4 not sure if it was a "s" yes I used a iClone! (Feel like I deserve a gold medal) and never again! The image quality was both thumbs down. I didn't even attempt to submit it. I remember when sony Ericsson brought the c905 out with 8MP sensor the same year I brought my first DSLR a sony alpha a350 then I came up with a crazy idea for my art project. i was about 13 at the time. I remember comparing them both to the same picture same setup as close as I could do for the same tests at the time. Still the DSLR was better! its still the same with my current setup vs mobile. My old palm pre 3 had a better feeling camera but unfortunately that phone is deceased. I have a s4 honestly that camera is really nice, okay there are faults but hey you can do manual if you root it (might be standard now, not sure). I'll only submit photos to my facebook on it and really any future phone camera I use. I will still drag my Alpha around.... Don't get me wrong I support this idea (please see my previous comments to see what I mean) maybe I will upload photos from my phone if alamy will support other phone(s) and other O.S. e.g. Andriod and windows, since some windows phones can produce far better and higher quality shots than an iPhone. I'm still going to stick with my Alphas or whatever DSLR regardless of what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Todd Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Very likely. I'd already set up a couple of direct contacts to sell mountain imagery.... I think I'll be moving towards expanding this this year as well as working on more creative imagery that I've been sending elsewhere. I was working on a batch of Istanbul shots for here but my heart isn't in it. I think I'll move on to my studio stuff again. To be honest, I don't know why I'm getting so frustrated with this place, it's not like I get much from them compared to elsewhere. In fact, they've probably done me a favour! Alamy have certainly done me a favour as they have caused me to accelerate my decision making and other plans. As you say, my angst wasn't justified by the returns Alamy is now giving me; a few years ago, OK. I've managed to get access to an iPhone to test the system and uploaded a few images last night. From now on this is the only way I'll submit images to Alamy as it's easier than QC and avoids the sin bin. The normal way is too much work for too little return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMelbourne Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Looks like the old RF debate might rear it's ugly head again. Just had a look at Stockimo RF only and it raises the question in that if anyone and his dog goes down this free for all route then there are going to be some serious breeches of RM/RF scenarios. Although I think that this episode in Alamy's progression is ill thought out and very likely to have an initial negative effect on customers I have downloaded the app and uploaded a few old photos off of my camera roll. Having just spent 4 days lugging my D3 around Cyprus and with my soon to be redundant RX100 still with Sony cos' I think it's crap, I would like to point out that all I needed was my iphone with it's very limited camera and 2 minutes every now and then to upload to Stockimo. What saddens me is that although Alamy is prepared to drop it's standards and subsequent reputation in favour of mass image overload, and even more dross, is that I have a considerable amount of photos that I have taken over the last 40 ish years that I can't use. These include shots taken during the Falklands crisis on 35mm film, various shots of the Phantoms and Buccaneers etc on the last but one Ark etc. Also, in recent years, walkabout shots taken on various digital 6mp compacts such as my press days best friend Fuji F30 thats take better shots than the modern RX100 (imo). And......it's great opening the floodgates but what happens when the taxman starts to go through the lists of casual contributors (and I am sure he eventually will) to all these people that are earning an income from Alamy/Stockimo? There will be taxes to pay, national insurance class 2 that was not deferred because of not registering etc. Still I suppose it will help alleviate the national debt sooner or later. As for me. I enjoy Alamy, it gives me an outlet for my holiday snaps (even more so now) but it is only a small fraction of my photography income so for my it really does not matter. My serious kit earns it's money on a regular basis but as far as Alamy is concerned once my considerable backlog of Canada, Dublin, Cyprus, London China and Japan et al then it is the iphone for me. I suspect the same for many others and therefore it will be Alamy's loss when it hits 100 million + iphone images with only c40 million high quality images taken with 'real' cameras. Stockimo should be totally seperate from the Alamy archive. Good idea but horrendously implemented. rant over Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Stockimo is inceasing by 1000/day, not a flood yet, fingers crossed that it remains a slow and inconvenient process compared with batch uploads. The compact I had in 2006 could have beaten the current offerings. I'd have too much professional pride to upload most of the stuff that is up at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Todd Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The ones I uploaded were of the same subject but they had to be uploaded, captioned and tagged one by one with no way of batching them or retaining the caption or tags to use on the next one etc. I couldn't resist putting them into photoshop to manipulate and crop before putting them back onto an iPad to upload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydingo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If I can upload an image taken with an iPhone and it's of acceptable quality, why can't I now upload (and have accepted) a scan from an old Olympus Trip 35 at a similar quality? I truly don't understand the difference . . . dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If I can upload an image taken with an iPhone and it's of acceptable quality, why can't I now upload (and have accepted) a scan from an old Olympus Trip 35 at a similar quality? I truly don't understand the difference . . . dd Perhaps Alamy want to create a curated collection of contempory, up to date and unusual images. Maybe they don't want it filled up with non QC compliant images from everyone's back catalogue going back to the dawn of digital photography and earlier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gervais Montacute Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Very likely. I'd already set up a couple of direct contacts to sell mountain imagery.... I think I'll be moving towards expanding this this year as well as working on more creative imagery that I've been sending elsewhere. I was working on a batch of Istanbul shots for here but my heart isn't in it. I think I'll move on to my studio stuff again. To be honest, I don't know why I'm getting so frustrated with this place, it's not like I get much from them compared to elsewhere. In fact, they've probably done me a favour! Alamy have certainly done me a favour as they have caused me to accelerate my decision making and other plans. As you say, my angst wasn't justified by the returns Alamy is now giving me; a few years ago, OK. I've managed to get access to an iPhone to test the system and uploaded a few images last night. From now on this is the only way I'll submit images to Alamy as it's easier than QC and avoids the sin bin. The normal way is too much work for too little return. What sort of return do you envisage from this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Todd Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Do Lee filters, in fact do any filter manufacturers make filters for iPhones ? If not , where does this leave all the creative landscape photographers ? Do they have to find a library that appreciates their work, or do they sell their own images to clients who appreciate quality ? Very likely. I'd already set up a couple of direct contacts to sell mountain imagery.... I think I'll be moving towards expanding this this year as well as working on more creative imagery that I've been sending elsewhere. I was working on a batch of Istanbul shots for here but my heart isn't in it. I think I'll move on to my studio stuff again. To be honest, I don't know why I'm getting so frustrated with this place, it's not like I get much from them compared to elsewhere. In fact, they've probably done me a favour! Alamy have certainly done me a favour as they have caused me to accelerate my decision making and other plans. As you say, my angst wasn't justified by the returns Alamy is now giving me; a few years ago, OK. I've managed to get access to an iPhone to test the system and uploaded a few images last night. From now on this is the only way I'll submit images to Alamy as it's easier than QC and avoids the sin bin. The normal way is too much work for too little return. What sort of return do you envisage from this? Not much really but I don't earn that much from Alamy going the long way round. This would just be an easy way to get stuff up that might buy me a coffee now and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If I can upload an image taken with an iPhone and it's of acceptable quality, why can't I now upload (and have accepted) a scan from an old Olympus Trip 35 at a similar quality? I truly don't understand the difference . . . dd In my view, the development is not about cameras, or stock, or licenses, or fees. I think it's about markets, speed, and access to new suppliers. The pictures created with smartphones are different to those created by people using Olympus Trip 35s or Canon 5Ds, or to those made by "photographers". Smartphone pics are about real life, provided by people who are "in life" (rather than by those "photographing" life). This is visual "life-sharing", and that is something very different. Smartphone pictures that are extremely easy and fast to source in any situation, there are no (almost) technology barriers, and content is likely to be very different to stock created by "photographers". There are also MANY more potential suppliers, and these suppliers don't have to be "photographers" (in the older sense...have interest, have equipment etc). I see this as the next step that connects us all, not just photographers, to the world of picture sharing in professional media. Mark ps. I don't have a smartphone, but I am tempted, not for income expectations, but to try out some TOTALLY new approaches I would not do with my film or digital cameras. Somehow, the development is becoming interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydingo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If I can upload an image taken with an iPhone and it's of acceptable quality, why can't I now upload (and have accepted) a scan from an old Olympus Trip 35 at a similar quality? I truly don't understand the difference . . . dd Perhaps Alamy want to create a curated collection of contempory, up to date and unusual images. Maybe they don't want it filled up with non QC compliant images from everyone's back catalogue going back to the dawn of digital photography and earlier! Perhaps . . . okay, so I'll not use a backlog of Olympus Trip pics, but I'll go out and take some "contemporary, up to date and unusual images" with my Olympus and scan and submit them (if I can find it) . . . now what's the difference? Why, I'll even filter it to buggery to make it look like an iPhone pic, as if that really means anything . . . so seriously, what is the difference? dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If I can upload an image taken with an iPhone and it's of acceptable quality, why can't I now upload (and have accepted) a scan from an old Olympus Trip 35 at a similar quality? I truly don't understand the difference . . . dd Perhaps Alamy want to create a curated collection of contempory, up to date and unusual images. Maybe they don't want it filled up with non QC compliant images from everyone's back catalogue going back to the dawn of digital photography and earlier! Perhaps . . . okay, so I'll not use a backlog of Olympus Trip pics, but I'll go out and take some "contemporary, up to date and unusual images" with my Olympus and scan and submit them (if I can find it) . . . now what's the difference? dd You and I can't submit our film and digital images via the smartphone channel. We can't submit at the same speed, volume, or effort. Perhaps we don't have our cameras at hand when we see the urinal explode at the local restaurant.......whatever. Unless you and I have our cameras everywhere, I mean EVERYWHERE, in all (or at least most) life situations, then the smartphones may open up different opportunities. Fact is, many people who are not photographers have smart phones. They have these phones in situations where they are unlikely to have a camera. That means more opportunity. I have small cameras (Leica Ms). But I can't carry these everywhere either (but more places than my old Canons). I can carry my phone almost everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihai Popa Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I got one image out of six approved on Stockimo. I'll wait for more photos to be uploaded so I can understand the trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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