What Sells and Why?

[John Richmond]

9 hours ago, IKuzmin said:

John, I wonder how you follow changes in scientific names that occur increasingly often (am not sure about plants but that's the case for animals which I photograph and micro-bugs which I work with)? Perhaps Alamy offers one of the most convenient interfaces for curating portfolio but still I always feel bad when all of a sudden discover that some species or even genus name has changed, and I have to dig my port to enter relevant changes in captions and keywords. Much worse in other agencies that do not offer such option after submission.

I have the same problem though I'm only with Alamy.  As soon as I discover a name change I change the scientific name in my image captions and keywords.  I also leave the old name in the keywords (not the caption) as buyers will still search for the old name.  It's a nightmare at times to keep up to date but necessary.

[Ed Rooney]

 

Jeff, you might want to read the rest of my original post.

[gvallee]

9 minutes ago, John Richmond said:

I have the same problem though I'm only with Alamy.  As soon as I discover a name change I change the scientific name in my image captions and keywords.  I also leave the old name in the keywords (not the caption) as buyers will still search for the old name.  It's a nightmare at times to keep up to date but necessary.

 

Ditto here. The bird taxonomy world is in upheaval in Australia. A complete nightmare.

 

[Ed Rooney]

 

 

Hmm. Don't know most birds from a bear or a snake or a tree or a bush. Herring gulls I know. But if I address one as Larus argentatus they answer with a raspy choking call.

[JaniMarkus Hasa]

Lucky for me, I have two daughters studying biology in University. Not that I take too many bird images, but when I do, I just send them to my daughters for identification. Then I check from wikipedia what's the English name for the creature. Apparently they all start with "common".

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by JaniMarkus Hasa

[gvallee]

On 30/03/2023 at 18:58, JaniMarkus Hasa said:

Lucky for me, I have two daughters studying biology in University. Not that I take too many bird images, but when I do, I just send them to my daughters for identification. Then I check from wikipedia what's the English name for the creature. Apparently they all start with "common".

 

 

And some birds called 'common' sometimes are stunning.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by gvallee

[Ed Rooney]

 

JMH, maybe I should list myself as a common Brooklyn guy?

[JaniMarkus Hasa]

9 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

 

JMH, maybe I should list myself as a common Brooklyn guy?

 

As much as I know about your background, that would be quite an underestimation.

[Ed Rooney]

3 minutes ago, JaniMarkus Hasa said:

 

As much as I know about your background, that would be quite an underestimation.

 

What? You've been looking at my criminal records?

[Ed Rooney]

 

To be serious, JaniMarkus, you must have a wonderful educational system in Finland. Every Fin I've spoken to in NYC spoke better English than I do. 

[John Mitchell]

I think that Jeff is correct. At this point, anyone who wants to significantly increase their income will have to drastically increase the number of images that they have in their collection, by whatever means works for them. At my stage of life, I'm mainly interested in continuing to generate a little extra income to supplement my pensions, etc. and have some fun in the process. I suspect that a lot of long-time (and long-in-the-tooth) contributors feel the same way. 👴👵

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by John Mitchell

[Brian Yarvin]

13 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

I think that Jeff is correct. At this point, anyone who wants to significantly increase their income will have to drastically increase the number of images that they have in their collection, by whatever means works for them.

 

Could somebody please tell my how this works? I always thought that what was needed was an increase in demand. I can't imagine that buyers will head over Alamy, see that another ten million images have been added and say "hey! ten million more images on Alamy, I'll buy ten million times more!" How does an increase in supply increase demand?

[M.Chapman]

15 minutes ago, Brian Yarvin said:

 

Could somebody please tell my how this works? I always thought that what was needed was an increase in demand. I can't imagine that buyers will head over Alamy, see that another ten million images have been added and say "hey! ten million more images on Alamy, I'll buy ten million times more!" How does an increase in supply increase demand?

 

If a contributor increases the size of their portfolio of saleable images faster than other contributors do, then they might get a larger number of sales as their "slice" of the pie. However, although it's practical to quickly double the number of images (and potential income) when the one's portfolio is small, it becomes impossible to grow the portfolio fast enough to offset the falling revenue/sale if you already have a portfolio of many thousands of images (IMO) - Unless perhaps some sort of automation is used to harvest or generate images from elsewhere, keyword and upload to Alamy?

 

Mark

Edited March 30, 2023 by M.Chapman

[Ed Rooney]

3 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 I suspect a lot of long-time contributors feel the same way.

 

Yes, and I thought I made that clear in my original post.

[Brian Yarvin]

37 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

If a contributor increases the size of their portfolio of saleable images faster than other contributors do, then they might get a larger number of sales as their "slice" of the pie. However, although it's practical to quickly double the number of images (and potential income) when the one's portfolio is small, it becomes impossible to grow the portfolio fast enough to offset the falling revenue/sale if you already have a portfolio of many thousands of images (IMO) - Unless perhaps some sort of automation is used to harvest or generate images from elsewhere, keyword and upload to Alamy?

 

Mark

 

It can only work in an area like lifestyle - where clothes and hairstyles change as fast as photographers can shoot them - or travel - where a small group of fit and motivated (by what? I have no idea) contributors can shoot up a storm. But even if you joined this crowd, you don't just compete on volume. If I suddenly shot a bunch of actor/models doing whatever is cool at this moment (pickleball? Sourdough baking?) or flew off to Bangkok or Lima and came back with a thousand images, would they be displayed alongside photographs by those with established higher rank? Would there chances of selling be equal to the big names?

 

Expanding your collection doesn't work unless you start contributing work in entirely different subject matter - and even that won't work if every conceivable subject is already competitive.

 

As for "automation," we've already got plenty of it. Keywording libraries, batch processing and CGI. Already, many of the top sellers are digital art instead of photos, and submissions to several of Alamy's close competitors are keyworded automatically via AI. 

 

Increasing sales can only mean creating and submitting images that are more appealing to buyers than what we're uploading now and then hoping that the sites we upload to recognize this and show it to customers. (Actually, Alamy is better at this than anybody, let's cut them some slack.)

[Shergar]

Some advice once read!

 

mix of with & without people ☑

mix of overall & close-ups ☑

most well composed & multi-colored ☑

mix of appropriate verticals & horizontals ☑

 

if you:

keep adding variety ☑

maintain quality & salability ☑

reasonably keyword ☑

then once you reach

volume ☑

of 10K images, you should IMO have multi sales.

[John Mitchell]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

 

If a contributor increases the size of their portfolio of saleable images faster than other contributors do, then they might get a larger number of sales as their "slice" of the pie. However, although it's practical to quickly double the number of images (and potential income) when the one's portfolio is small, it becomes impossible to grow the portfolio fast enough to offset the falling revenue/sale if you already have a portfolio of many thousands of images (IMO) - Unless perhaps some sort of automation is used to harvest or generate images from elsewhere, keyword and upload to Alamy?

 

Mark

 

Yup, the race is on! 🏇

 

This doesn't do it for me, but I think a lot of contributors, especially younger ones, will be rapidly beefing up their collections with AI-generated images. It will be interesting to see where that goes -- fleeting fad or the way of the future?

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by John Mitchell

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, Brian Yarvin said:

 

It can only work in an area like lifestyle - where clothes and hairstyles change as fast as photographers can shoot them - or travel - where a small group of fit and motivated (by what? I have no idea) contributors can shoot up a storm. But even if you joined this crowd, you don't just compete on volume. If I suddenly shot a bunch of actor/models doing whatever is cool at this moment (pickleball? Sourdough baking?) or flew off to Bangkok or Lima and came back with a thousand images, would they be displayed alongside photographs by those with established higher rank? Would there chances of selling be equal to the big names?

 

Expanding your collection doesn't work unless you start contributing work in entirely different subject matter - and even that won't work if every conceivable subject is already competitive.

 

As for "automation," we've already got plenty of it. Keywording libraries, batch processing and CGI. Already, many of the top sellers are digital art instead of photos, and submissions to several of Alamy's close competitors are keyworded automatically via AI. 

 

Increasing sales can only mean creating and submitting images that are more appealing to buyers than what we're uploading now and then hoping that the sites we upload to recognize this and show it to customers. (Actually, Alamy is better at this than anybody, let's cut them some slack.)

 

With so many competing images I think intelligent (not AI) keywording and tagging has a big effect on placement. Partly it's about driving up CTR and hence ranking, but also the use of phrases is crucial on Alamy IMO. 

 

Mark 

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

2 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

It can only work in an area like lifestyle...
Expanding your collection doesn't work unless you start contributing work in entirely different subject matter - and even that won't work if every conceivable subject is already competitive.

False & false, professor.

 

"ALL" selected

 

steak (464668)

rare steak (40546)

rare steak serving (1745)

rare steak serving hand (44) returned, actual # maybe 1 or 2 !!

 

STOP THINKING ONE WORD SEARCHES

 

I recently walked the streets of Mexico City.
I NEVER thought "Mexico City" search.
I RARELY took or sought "Mexico City" iconic shots.
I ALWAYS thought "Mexico City + _______ + _______ + _______"

guess what?!!  That possibility is EVERYWHERE, EVERY STEP,
oh thank you lord

 

I cannot debate it beyond this, one either gets it or doesn't...

No one may ever specifically seek "rare steak serving hand"
or "Mexico City + X + Y +Z" but if one has large variety
of such rarities, they will be searched, they will be licensed...

   🤑    🤑    🤑    🤑    🤑 

START THINKING MULTI WORD SEARCHES, MATES

Edited March 30, 2023 by Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg

[Phil]

4 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

At my stage of life, I'm mainly interested in continuing to generate a little extra income to supplement my pensions, etc. and have some fun in the process. I suspect that a lot of long-time (and long-in-the-tooth) contributors feel the same way. 👴👵

 

Hah!  Careful - I resemble that remark!   👴

[Phil]

42 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

START THINKING MULTI WORD SEARCHES, MATES

 

"Long-tail keywords"

[Brian Yarvin]

Admiral Greenberg:

 

It's tempting to say "too much thinking and not enough shooting!!" But I won't. Instead I'll ask why go to Mexico City when so much of what is iconically Mexican can be had anywhere? It's the same with that steak - you have no real way of knowing what the intention of those searches was. Were they looking to promote beef consumption? Sell restaurant equipment? Convey a general sense of deliciousness? 

 

While I don't deny that I am "false & false" - I do think there's a slice of experience there worth noting. I've done those shoots and seen the results. 

 

The problem remains the same; in online search, a handful of collections will dominate and if you're not in them, your images are very unlikely to be considered, no matter how you've keyworded them. Cramming elements into the shot ("steak," "hand," "knife," "plate," "grill," etc...) won't give you better rank. 

[Marianne]

Over the past year my biggest seller was hands! Three different images sold multiple times (three different concepts, shot intentionally). One sold for the eighth time this week. 

 

Concept and travel images seem to be evenly split. Mostly US travel. My only UK images are from a 2007 Edinburgh trip (before I'd ever heard of stock. They still sell on occasion. Continental European rarely sells. Iceland's done a little better (had a zoom this week, fingers crossed).

 

The New England states are my biggest sellers, especially coastal New England (3 sales this month). My home state of New York (the suburbs, not the city) is second. Trips out west have done quite well, and the south and midwest do OK too. 

 

I've had a few botanical image sales recently, including one floral image that sold twice in the past few months. They usually sell for books and tend to bring higher prices.

 

When I travel, I'm looking for "pretty pictures," and they do seem to sell, but I also try to be intentional and grab those non-touristy pics that sell, like signs and transportation images. Signs would be #4 on my bestseller list for the past year. I don't have many of them (I feel odd taking pix of stores when I'm not on vacation, which I know I need to get over, since there are certainly plenty within a reasonable drive of my home).

 

From time to time, I've taken pictures of things that are trending and had a few sales, though I do better with those on sites that sell in volume, since they are short lived so the quick volume helps. 

 

When I was with Live News (Like Edo, I also didn't bother reapplying), I had the occasional sale, but found that the time difference in the US meant my images were almost always a day old even when I uploaded them right away, and US News didn't do all that well anyway. Many however, have sold on the secondary market and some, e.g. from Hurricane Sandy, which didn't sell right away (despite the trouble I went through to find a place with electricity and internet in order to upload them), have become evergreen - insurance companies always need disaster images, as do the yearly "prepare for hurricane season" stories. 

 

I even sold one background this year - I think it's the first time I've sold one on Alamy. I don't usually even bother uploading them here. They are huge sellers elsewhere, so I assumed they wouldn't sell here, but with prices all over the place, maybe I should upload more. 

 

[Nodvandigtid]

5 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

How does an increase in supply increase demand?

You're right it doesn't - increase supply, supply curve to right and price falls (simply laws of demand and supply) 

It's back to what is being supplied and if there is a market for it and if a buyer wants it and if your pictures are high enough up in the search rankings .................................................. etc etc 

 

Good luck to all tomorrow - the last day of the month is upon us.

 

[Bryan]

There is another question that could be appended to Edo's original, and that is who sells and why ? 

 

Searching out photos in the papers I have seen names come and go. Leaving aside live news shooters, where current market research and knowledge is key, (and some specialist areas) there are some long standing successful contributors.

 

They produce generally beautiful well crafted images covering a wide range of subject matter displaying a genuine talent for producing images that are  aesthetically pleasing and/or that tell a story. I often wonder what has happened to some of these people who have slowly disappeared from view, while others persist. Maybe the worsening contractual and market conditions have driven them out, or perhaps age or ill health has taken its toll ? 

 

There are some of us, myself included, that get by with a blend of enthusiasm and technical knowledge, coupled with an acquired skill in key wording, who make modest returns but who will never make the big time. I know my place !