Contract Change 2021 - Official thread

[MizBrown]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Yesterday I also had the same request.

 

I too refused to lift the restrictions despite assurances that the purchasers would be "responsible for sourcing any third party rights and they would shoulder all responsibility for using the image. They are currently working with a rights clearance company."

 

My response included the following: 

 

"I understand that the customer says they would shoulder all responsibility for the use if legal problems were to arise, but as I am sure you are aware litigators tend to take a “spatter gun” approach and involve all parties. In addition, whereas a few years ago I would have had some faith that Alamy would support me  as a contributor, I no longer feel that is the case, especially in view of the cynical changes that the new “Contributor Contract” includes, published today."

 

Sadly I have completely lost my belief that Alamy has any interest in its' contributors.

 

Kumar

 

 

You'd have to give them the names and contact information to get releases for people  If I have that, I could have gotten a release myself.   And I've taken photos in Mexico which has requires releases for more uses than here, or in the US or UK.   Good guess is they're paying the rights clearance company more than they're paying the photographers.   They'll probably try to get trademarked clearances but will trust that individuals will not see the ads or will not know how to claim against the people who didn't get a release.

 

I can always submit more released cat, fish, and dog photos.

 

Some time back, I read that successful ad agencies are finding that they're better served hiring photographers to photograph their ads rather than look through stock photographs for cleared photos.   This sounds like either someone trying to turn unreleased photos into gold, or an agency which doesn't want to budget much for photography but is willing to budget more for consultants.

 

 

[geogphotos]

According to the blog post the infringement team found that some Alamy contributors weren't being honest about Exclusivity.

 

Now, how does that lead to this?

 

Explain the logic. You found out who was being dishonest.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by geogphotos

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, Joe Gaul said:

however I do not believe that Alamy can compete in that market. Sad times.

Indeed. SS generate over 10x more gross sales revenue per image they host than Alamy do. It's a totally different business model, a highly efficient automated volume sales operation. Alamy aren't in the same league (or business). As Alamy's sales revenue per image hosted keeps falling Alamy is forced to squeeze its contributors to cover its overheads. IMHO Alamy need to improve their product offering, improve efficiency (reduce number of images, more automation, pay on download etc.), and stop dropping their prices. The removal of contributor reward for exclusivity and cutting % for contributors means their best contributors will now submit elsewhere too. Further weakening Alamy's position.

 

Mark

[Allan Bell]

1 hour ago, Colblimp said:

Don't hold your breath on that one... 😡🤥

 

Ain't holding my breath BUT if the Shelley "self imposed deadline" comes and goes without comment then we really know what we are dealing with.

 

That will be when the shit hits the fan as far as I am concerned.

 

Allan

 

[geogphotos]

1 minute ago, M.Chapman said:

Indeed. SS generate over 10x more gross sales revenue per image they host than Alamy do. It's a totally different business model, a highly efficient automated volume sales operation. Alamy aren't in the same league (or business). As Alamy's sales revenue per image hosted keeps falling Alamy is forced to squeeze its contributors to cover its overheads. IMHO Alamy need to improve their product offering, improve efficiency (reduce number of images, more automation, pay on download etc.), and stop dropping their prices. The removal of contributor reward for exclusivity and cutting % for contributors means their best contributors will now submit elsewhere too. Further weakening Alamy's position.

 

Mark

 

 

SS also squeezes. It isn't about 'being forced'

[Allan Bell]

1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

Allan, I simply no longer will put myself out there spending many many minutes looking at portfolios, advising newbies how to tag, caption, leave copyspace and all of that stuff. I’m spending my time doing something Alamy should do. I realize it’s hard for new people to absorb how/what to do, but from now on, that’s Alamy’s job, I’m not taking it on anymore. They desire to handle or maximize contributors, let ‘em have fun at it.

The usual forum conversations about the things I know regarding cameras, lenses and that kind of thing, I’m all in. Those are questions between each other and not in Alamy’s wheelhouse.

Mark, I think, was addressing our policing...telling people not to discuss St****mo in the forum, or not to discuss other agencies. That's really not our job, so why should we do it? I agree with him in that respect.

And yes, I’m angry.

I worked for a doctor in another lifetime. I was there 20 minutes early, cleaning and sterilizing rooms, not because I was told to, but because I wanted them clean for the patients. I often got short lunch hours because we were running late with patients. When everyone of the help walked out the door at 5pm, I was the one who was there late, sometimes 2 hours over, with a family I needed to put dinner on the table for. I was on salary, so I got no overtime. I just ate those hours.

I went to half days at one point after 5 years, because my knees swelled from arthritis so much I was limping by noon. My job kept me on my feet all day.
I went on hourly. I asked the doctor about benefits. Would I still get sick pay? Would I get paid vacation? It was ok if I didn’t, I was so grateful for part time, but I just wanted to know.

He put off answering (I need to ask my doctor friends what they do) for over a year, and I’d inquired multiple times. 
I became very ill with pneumonia and was hospitalized. The first time ever I’d missed work in 6 years. The business manager came to my room to ask my hours before cutting checks. I told her the doctor never told me if I got paid sick leave. She checked with him, he said no. That hurt me so incredibly because he, who I also considered a friend, chose the coward’s way to finally tell me that when I was most vulnerable.

I never felt the same loyalty to him again.

BTW, when the other women, my workmates, found out (one came to visit and caught me crying, pulled it out of me why) they ostracized and criticized him to his face so much that he reversed his edict and I got paid! He was in a hostile workplace!

Moral of this story is we, as a group, have been so very helpful to new people. Hours upon hours of help with the kind of advice that Alamy should be dishing out. When I’ve had a knife slipped between my 3rd and 4th ribs, I no longer feel so generous. The information is here. In Alamy’s pages, and in searching the forum threads. It’s not hard for newbies to find out what they need to know.

 

When I said technicalities I was including all that you have mention above too. Processing, keywording etc. It is all the same (technical).

 

Allan

 

[M.Chapman]

20 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

It isn't about 'being forced'

Agreed - Alamy made a choice, I could have worded it better.

 

Mark

[VIDRA]

Alamy does not value its photographers.  With the new rules there are no advantages in giving images exclusively to Alamy.  For Alamy this will mean filling up with trivial images that are available at lower prices at other sites, this lowering of the level will push to lower prices and compensation even more in a negative spiral.

[MizBrown]

1 hour ago, Mander Images said:

If the changes "will not have a significant impact on Alamy’s financial performance" then why change the structure. The new commission may attract new business but the 20% rate will only serve to alienate the small man who helped you build your business. I suggest you scrap the silver level or risk losing some of your bread and butter contributors.

 

I just looked at some stock agency information and 20% to the photographer is rather more common than not.   Basically, the people in the major markets probably would be better served with direct sales and working for clients.   Paying to put photos on line strikes me as doing business with people who hustle the wannabes.  Some will be successful.  Some won't pay for their storage fees with what they earn.

[VIDRA]

Alamy does not value its photographers.  With the new rules there are no advantages in giving images exclusively to Alamy.  For Alamy this will mean filling up with trivial images that are available at lower prices at other sites, this lowering of the level will push to lower prices and compensation even more in a negative spiral.

[villalobos]

The announcement of the new contributor contract on Twitter includes some responses from the Alamy Content Team to a few questions made by some users.  Nothing terribly enlightening, but they are a bit more engaged on that platform than on this forum.

Edited May 18, 2021 by villalobos

[MizBrown]

9 minutes ago, villalobos said:

The announcement of the new contributor contract on Twitter includes some responses from the Alamy Content Team to a few questions made by some users.  Nothing terribly enlightening, but they are a bit more engaged on that platform than on this forum.

That's probably because they pick up more new contributors there than here.  

[Bill Kuta]

Since we are anticipating a reponse from Alamy, I think we should have a list of short, specific, direct questions without emotional histrionics, like a business review of the contract.  I'll start,

 

1.  How did you come up with the jump from $250 in sales for Gold to $25,000 for platinum?

 

2.  Why are you doing away with the annual independent audit? Will anything replace it?

 

3.  Do you think that contributors can honestly certify that clause 4.1.6 applies to their images?

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Bill Kuta

[Hodderauthor]

If only Apple ran an agency. They seem to manage on a 30% cut, passing on 70% onto the contributor. 🤣

[Allan Bell]

This is only my thoughts in the reading of the contents of the "New Contract" and "Commission breaks".

 

PA are commencing their program to perform an image grab in getting contributors to resign and to continue to licence the contributors images without paying them for the privilege.

 

That is how it reads. Maybe not very soon but maybe in one or two years.

 

Allan

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Allan Bell

[John Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, Bill Kuta said:

Since we are anticipating a reponse from Alamy, I think we should have a list of short, direct questions without emotional histrionics.  I'll start,

 

1.  How did you come up with the jump from $250 in sales for Gold to $25,000 for platinum?

 

2.  Why are you doing away with the annual independent audit? Will anything replace it?

 

3.  Do you think that contributors can honestly certify that clause 4.1.6 applies to their images?

 

 

 

Good questions. Clause 4.1.6 is definitely interesting given the lively nature of the UK press.

 

I'd be inclined to substitute "quantum leap" for "jump" in question #1. 😲

[meanderingemu]

5 minutes ago, Bill Kuta said:

Since we are anticipating a reponse from Alamy, I think we should have a list of short, specific, direct questions without emotional histrionics, like a business review of the contract.  I'll start,

 

1.  How did you come up with the jump from $250 in sales for Gold to $25,000 for platinum?

 

2.  Why are you doing away with the annual independent audit? Will anything replace it?

 

3.  Do you think that contributors can honestly certify that clause 4.1.6 applies to their images?

 

 

 

 

based on 4.1.6 i guess we have to go a delete all protest images because i am sure the content is deemed offensive someone in the world

 

Gay Rights- offensive in Nigeria

Pro Palestine- Offensive in Israel

Anti Belarus Regime- offensive probably defamatory in Belarus (in fact any such protest about xxxx)

 

 

 

will be hard for Alamy to continue being a News organisation.  I guess upload more puppies 

 

[Nathaniel Noir]

1 minute ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

based on 4.1.6 i guess we have to go a delete all protest images because i am sure the content is deemed offensive someone in the world

 

Gay Rights- offensive in Nigeria

Pro Palestine- Offensive in Israel

Anti Belarus Regime- offensive probably defamatory in Belarus (in fact any such protest about xxxx)

 

 

 

will be hard for Alamy to continue being a News organisation.  I guess upload more puppies 

 

 

cat pictures are a no-brainer 

[Bill Kuta]

Personally, I could only certify the opposite to 4.1.6--somewhere in the world there is an Alamy buyer who could make a use of one of my images that could be offensive to someone else somewhere in the world. Pick any image, doesn't have to be sensitive.

[MizBrown]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_Photos

[John Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, Nathaniel Noir said:

 

cat pictures are a no-brainer 

 

"cute" cat pictures are even a safer bet 🐱

[gardenbush]

How would one terminate the contract with Alamy? Would an email to contributors@alamy.com constitute 'in writing'?

[Bill Kuta]

The contract just says "in writing" and the Definitions do not include this term. The FAQs on the website say to email contributors@alamy.com, but that could be worth the paper it's printed on. Should add this to our list of questions.

[Sally]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

60% of nothing or 50% of something ?

 

As a direct result of the email yesterday, and no one getting in touch with me to confirm my rate despite my contacting them, I uploaded a handful of news / weather pics to other agencies today.  I've allready had one use on line in the Sun.  It seems fairly simple to me, Alamy can either have 60% of nothing, or 50% of something. Tomorrow I've got another great shooting opportunity which is going to go elsewhere.

Feeling very much the same, especially when it is a shoot I have exclusive photos of. I won’t change anything this month as live news will be reported in June within the current contract. After that, it may be different.

[MizBrown]

Maybe if we each sent in a couple hundred cat photos?  I've got access to three cats but can only sign releases for two of them. 

 

My thinking on this is that jumping ship for the same rates doesn't make sense, but was the last time I got a low $$$ license before or after PA?  Hum, checks.   Last low $$$ was in February 26 2020.  PA bought Alamy in February 14, 2020, and I haven't had a sale over $50 since the one in late February 26, which was a unique photo from a series on Nicaraguan Sign Language and perhaps PA had not completely taken over at that point.   If PA is selling things cheaper than Alamy did, then, yeah.

 

Also, I'm with Betty on no longer being interested in helping newbies with information that PA/Alamy should itself pay someone to write up and post on their site. 

 

One woman I worked with in Philadelphia saw the company hire an incompetent man for project manager, and said that her parents always told her if she worked for someone, she could always be let go.   In less than a week she was out of a company where she'd been the first employee and had a better job.   The guy they hired didn't even realize he was doing a bad job and was surprised when he got fired less than six months later. 

 

I like taking photos, but maybe this novel that's been building in my head needs more attention.  Big gamble -- it might not sell, but if it does sell to a commercial publisher, I'd get more for it than I've gotten in four and a half years with Alamy. 

 

What Alamy has now, I think I'll leave in place, but I am tempted to do a cat photo binge.  Either PA can get as many sales in the low $$$ range as Alamy did (and two of those photos in one year would have put me in the Gold), or they can't.   I doubt they'd miss me if I left, though.

 

PA and the rest of the world went through the pandemic, so that might have affected prices, but prices should be going up again.   And those of us who stay exclusive should be getting higher prices if not 50% commission.  If the prices aren't higher for exclusive photos, then maybe put energy to something else.

Edited May 18, 2021 by MizBrown
found the info I needed to look for