Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I've been frustrated of late. I often pop in and out of peoples profiles. I often see images that I'd probably get slapped for taking, or reported to the authorities for. So how is this possible? A lot of pics of products in shops, bars, cafe's, restaurants and retail centres. I just wonder how people are able to take pictures in such places? I walked into Buchanan Galleries in Glasgow, a few weeks ago, and I didn't even have my camera on, it was slung over my shoulder, and a big bertha of a security guard ran up to me shouting "No photography in the centre!!" How are people getting shots in supermarkets? Pictures of people shopping and also pictures in IKEA of all places. I tried to take a picture of the name of a pillow (because it was funny) on my phone in IKEA, and some guy ran up to me and said I could take pictures of anything in the store. I also see pictures of staff posing in the stores for pictures. It's one getting the picture but it's another not telling them that you're going to be using the picture to earn money. How do people combat this? Small camera? sneaky shots? covert operations? If I walked into ASDA on a busy Saturday afternoon in Glasgow, and asked anyone in there if I could take their picture to then sell at a later date I'd be rushed out the store followed by an angry mob. I just don't know how you manage it... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Good advice as always. I guess asking permission and planning it goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Elliott Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Second what Philippe says. Haven't done anything in stores yet but a couple of weeks ago I wanted some shots at my local market. Just chatted away to the sellers and got permission to get my shots. One lady thought I was a known journalist, so it helped get the ball rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManWay Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hello All, I find it ironic that in this day and age when we are all subject to almost 24hr photographic surveillance - without our permission - we as photographers are assailed by more and more of these neo-Facist 'security' types. Of course if one simply wants to shoot a free pr job for a shop or supermarket or airport .... then go ahead and get permission. If one wishes to shoot proper reportage or photojournalism then one has to work as one sees it. Regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 I normally fire on the 70-200 and snap from a distance, however, I was in the town centre with my 11mm wide angle and the pictures just felt more personal. It actually looked like I was in the thick of it. The tele gives a really strange empty picture, but the closer you get somehow gives a sense of personality. Obviously getting close to anything is considered wrong by most. People's perception changes too with the size of the lens in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirco Vacca Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hello everyone, Maybe Poland is more tolerant about this but i just have my camera around my neck and shoot in supermarkets or shopping malls without anybody saying anything. I also dont do it hidden. I have images of supermarkets and shopping malls. Mirco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 In Glasgow, UK people are so opposed to this sort of thing. I was even walking down a public street and was questioned by community police officers asking what I was doing. I simply said I was taking stock photography in a public place. They said just keep your nose clean. WTF? keep my nose clean? Anyway needless to say unless you're wearing a blooming badge of some kind you get serious attention of the negative kind. That's why I asked about smaller cameras. People don't tend to bother me if I use my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirco Vacca Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I also have to admit that i had more strange looking people when i was shooting with the bigger Sony Alpha 77. Since i shoot with the nex system it is like i am invisible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 We’re being photographed all the time (I believe England has more CCTV cameras per head of population than any other country on the planet), but they don’t like the tables being turned.I know my rights, about what I can photograph and what I can’t... and I make myself visible: tripod, DSLR, no rush, no secrecy, no subterfuge. If anyone objects to what I’m doing, I’m happy to chat. If anyone threatens to “phone the police”, I say fine... and carry on.For most interiors I’ll ask permission beforehand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShep Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Since i shoot with the nex system it is like i am invisible I like the flip-out screen on the NEX 5 for this - used waist-level its a lot less confrontational than pointing a big black DSLR at someone. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gervais Montacute Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I'm not great at taking photos of people. Every time I see them later in Lightroom, it looks like I've been hiding amongst shrubbery, up a tree or behind the canned goods shelf. I haven't, I hasten to add. But it looks that way sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Patience, persistence, time and a lot of luck. Try chatting to your subjects, getting them used to your presence and on side. If there are security guards around come back later. Keep at it and you will get there. The application that you show in your Forum postings shows that you have it in you. dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Todd Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 If there are security guards around come back later. Keep at it and you will get there. dov Easier said than done. Once they have their eye on you they follow you around to make sure you don't take photos. I was even followed out to the car park once and took some shots of them following me much to their annoyance I've done PR jobs in the same shopping mall with lights, stands, tripods etc and never had any bother. I know for certain on one occasion the shop owner didn't let them know in advance I was doing it so it can just be your luck to get spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Gaul Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi Paul, a couple of weeks ago I tried, as an experiment, taking my Canon G9 into the Metrocentre (a large shopping mall) and noone seemed yo notice me shooting at all. Had I taken the SLR I'm sure security would have been all over me. A NEX6 is on the cards. However, to echo others here, I intend to take some shots of shops shortly and will chat to the owners first, explain what I am doing and perhaps offer prints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Great thread! And a lot of varied attitudes and responses. I have approached the matter in both ways. I don't like taking pictures of individuals surreptitiously - I wouldn't like anyone doing it to me (don't do to others, etc.)! But I have no qualms about people appearing in general scenes: If I take a photo of an individual - I ask! You will find that 90% of the time, people will oblige (if they say no, I don't take the photo): Interiors and people shot with (verbal) permission (in this case from both bank and main subject): Only a couple of days ago, I took a wander around town specifically looking for stock images. I was questioned by two PCSO's (they'd likely seen me taking pics of a Barclay's bank a minute before!) They said that while I didn't fit the standard profile (?!), they would still like to know what I was doing and why. So I told them, handed them a business card with a link to my Alamy portfolio, had a quick, friendly chat and off they went happy. As arterra said, make yourself as obvious as possible! Having a large DSLR stuck in front of your face lets people know that you are confident and happy in what you are doing. If you are questioned, explain what, why, etc. in a calm, friendly manner. Security guards tend to offer the most problems, often because they are unaware of the law themselves. Remember that (generally) they are only trying to do their job and probably have a b*****d of a boss breathing down their a**s!. If you know that you are in the wrong, then be polite, apologise, be prepared to delete the images if asked, and be prepared to leave. If you are confident that you are in the right, then as John says, explain so (nicely) and encourage them to call the police (again, in a nice way)! It can be stressful, but you can meet some really nice folk. I always mean to, but usually forget to ask the police if I can take their picture after they question me. Sometimes I remember! BTW, forgive the shameless self-promotion and overloading with images- you never know who'll wander by the thread looking for one of these great images to licence! I'm off now afore I get shot down in a hail of red arrows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Cool seeing the images as its the sort of thing I was on about. Good to see both sides of the spectrum with regards to respectful decline and acceptance. I think because I look like a wee boy when in fact I'm 36 years old probably goes against me. I think if you have a fear of people in general then this will only be worse when you put a camera to their face. If you're an outgoing type person that chats to loads of people then they don't seem to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 +1 except for deleting images. No-one is entitled to that, not even the police, and if they've failed to stop me taking them, they're mine. They can see them but that's all. I'd no more delete than I would have ripped a film out of the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Cool seeing the images as its the sort of thing I was on about. Good to see both sides of the spectrum with regards to respectful decline and acceptance. I think because I look like a wee boy when in fact I'm 36 years old probably goes against me. I think if you have a fear of people in general then this will only be worse when you put a camera to their face. If you're an outgoing type person that chats to loads of people then they don't seem to mind. Afterthought added prior to posting: The following more likely applies to general street photography and portraiture (not candid) rather than stock. I was given some very good advice by Keith Morris & David Kilpatrick in my portfolio review thread a few months back regarding my unfortunate tendency to pose people for news images! They really should be more candid. Paul, You may not believe this, but I am not naturally an outgoing person, I'm really not. So if I can do it...etc. I can find it incredibly difficult, but once you start, (the difficult bit) it gets hard to stop! Personally, if I'm taking pictures of a person, then I always start chatting to them first. Talk about the weather, for God's sake - we all do that - well in the UK, anyhow! Tell them that you are taking pictures for stock - news is even better, but it has to be true! Everyone wants their 15 mins. of fame: you could be the conduit to offer them that! I have the camera in full view, primed and ready with the settings I'm likely to use, but I don't even think about taking a photo before establishing some kind of rapport - however minimal. Have a biz card ready to hand out, or give them a link to the news feed where they can see their pictures. If you are abroad and don't speak the language, then (I have found) things are much easier - use sign language and make a fool of yourself (I mean a total clown if you want - this always goes down well - stupid Englishmen or Scots as a breed are always very popular!) I only have a kit lens - but I find this helps: you have to get up close and personal! Anyhow, I tend to prefer the type of images that result, in any case. As to your looks, all I can say is that both you and Cliff Richard are lucky so-and-so's! You are likely right that this doesn't work in your favour though...you are wearing long trousers now, right? Mark - you're quite right and I agree about deleting images and your right to keep them: I don't think that I ever have deleted a photo, (though a bolshy jobsworth outside the local jobcentre once insisted I had to - I told him that he was in the wrong and to call the cops!) What I meant was that my personal view is that I'd rather delete a few snatched images when taken somewhere I shouldn't have been taking photos, than keep a few shots and have the bad blood ruin my day, The older I get, the longer I want to live (most days, anyway!) and I really don't need the stress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 I watched a video on Keiths website yesterday about him just walking about and doing his thing. Seems like quite a laid back guy and was certainly food for thought. I'm sure I'll blend into my own style of how to get the best out of the locals lol. I remember passing a lovely sun filled bar with outside seating and there was a whole load of lovely women sitting drinking. I was going to ask them if I could take their picture but I got a wee bit of stage fright on approach and didn't bother. It's those images you wish you took. Time heals all photographic wounds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Photographing people at work/in the street/doing stuff is what i spend most of my time doing.... it gets easier the more you do it.......and certainly a big lens is not the way to go about it km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Photographing people at work/in the street/doing stuff is what i spend most of my time doing.... it gets easier the more you do it.......and certainly a big lens is not the way to go about it km I saw that in your video Keith you were using a much smaller camera during the day and a bigger one at night. Also that's such a nice cupboard of gear you have lol Looked like you were using the Fuji X-pro or something. Not that it matters what brand however its how people respond to it that does. Anywho I thought the video was great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Photographing people at work/in the street/doing stuff is what i spend most of my time doing.... it gets easier the more you do it.......and certainly a big lens is not the way to go about it km Have to confirm the big lens theory. Not only can you get better candid shots, but when I had that fab Canon 2.8 70-200 in downtown Toronto, I was stopped by a number of people asking who I took pictures for. When you have it, they assume you are a professional, not some creep snapping shots of kiddies. And I think it is probably harder on guys than us women as people are wary of men with cameras, especially if their are any kids around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 And I think it is probably harder on guys than us women as people are wary of men with cameras, especially if their are any kids around. When kids are about, I don't think about my photographic rights. The camera goes straight back in the bag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 If you want to be invisible, be obvious hiding in plain sight is the best strategy. If needs be, wear a hi-vis coat....no-one will notice you km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Stick at it Paul, at first I found it a bit strange taking images of people that were unknown to me when out and about at events etc, now if a person (stranger) is going to feature as a main part of my image I usually quickly ask is it ok to take your picture .. they normally say ok but I get a false look from them so I stick my thumb up and say thanks, then a split second later I take another image and get the image that I want as they are back to acting naturally. If someone didn't want me to take their picture I would respect their wishes ( unless it was a politician or someone up to no good ) I also had an encounter with a security guard last year when I was on a public footpath that go's around the outside of a yachting marina..The security guard in question wanted to look at the pictures on my camera.. as I was on a public footpath and he had no right do do so he was told to get knotted.. Oh yeah Paul, I am driving up from the south coast to Oban tommorrow night so can you order some good weather for me up in your neck of the woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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