Inchiquin Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 A couple of months ago DK posted about a plan by Historic Scotland to provide a "photographer's permit" membership and to discuss the idea with their English counterpart English Heritage. I doubt if anything will be happening yet, but what is the current situation with photographs on EH property? I was prompted to consider this when I visited one last week and was encouraged to join EH. It seems like a good deal and I'm tempted to do so, but there would not be much point if photography is restricted and its use policed in the way the NT do. There are plenty of unreleased shots on Alamy taken on EH property so can I assume that EH have a relaxed attitude to editorial use, or have they just not got round to sending threatening letters to Alamy yet? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Haunts Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Good question. I would also like to know how this applies to National Trust as I have a membership with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Haunts Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 ok after a little good kung foo, here is National Trusts photographic policy. http://www.nationaltrustimages.org.uk/photographic-access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Haunts Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 For English Heritage, there is a little info here but not much. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/contact-us/enquiries/commercial-photography/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Good question. I would also like to know how this applies to National Trust as I have a membership with them. National Trust are a PITA. If you have photos taken on NT property Alamy will eventually get round to telling you to remove them. For English Heritage, there is a little info here but not much. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/contact-us/enquiries/commercial-photography/ This doesn't really cover editorial-style photography, unfortunately. There may have been some discussion about this on the old forum, but we can't search there... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMelbourne Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 In summary: It costs £75 for a limited period. You must me a member of a professional body (or ARPS minimum). Hold a least £2,000,000 public liability insurance. You can market the images yourself but not via any other agency other than NT. You must send edited and keyworded images direct to NT. You will get 50% commission of certain sales. You must be a paid up member of NT before applying. You must make a prior appointment with the property for each shoot. It's just an agency run by the NT that charges you a fee to use photographs of subjects that arguably we already own. If you take photo's from outside on public land there is nothing they can do about it. Work it out. Andy EDIT: It is only for an outside license and does not cover internal shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 In summary: It costs £75 for a limited period. You must me a member of a professional body (or ARPS minimum). Hold a least £2,000,000 public liability insurance. You can market the images yourself but not via any other agency other than NT. You must send edited and keyworded images direct to NT. You will get 50% commission of certain sales. You must be a paid up member of NT before applying. You must make a prior appointment with the property for each shoot. It's just an agency run by the NT that charges you a fee to use photographs of subjects that arguably we already own. If you take photo's from outside on public land there is nothing they can do about it. Work it out. Andy EDIT: It is only for an outside license and does not cover internal shots Does this relate just to property with buildings or is it all NT land? If the latter, then it is incredibly restrictive - large sections of the UK coastline for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMelbourne Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 It is for "some" paid entry sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Looking at their website it's certainly not very clear - I mean in relation to whether or not a permit is required on any NT property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gaffen Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I cancelled my membership of the National Trust, due to their agressive policy on photographers. They made me remove images from Alamy. English Heritage seem much more relaxed about images taken on their properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I cancelled my membership of the National Trust, due to their agressive policy on photographers. They made me remove images from Alamy. English Heritage seem much more relaxed about images taken on their properties. John. Were the images you were forced to remove solely of buildings or were there general landscapes on NT properry without NT buildings as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 I just found this on the EH website (under terms & conditions for using their website so it's no wonder I didn't spot it before): "photographs taken at English Heritage sites may not be exploited in any commercial context without the prior written consent of English Heritage". Clear as mud. Define "commercial context".... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 NT policy crackers. They would make much more from the entry payments of potential stock shooters than they ever will from flogging photos. Further, how do they police overseas shooters/agencies? Paying £75 for the opportunity to take a stock shot makes no sense at all. It gives my inordinate pleasure when I flog a picture of a NT property from without their bounds. I am a long term member of this misguided organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 In summary: It costs £75 for a limited period. You must me a member of a professional body (or ARPS minimum). Hold a least £2,000,000 public liability insurance. You can market the images yourself but not via any other agency other than NT. You must send edited and keyworded images direct to NT. You will get 50% commission of certain sales. You must be a paid up member of NT before applying. You must make a prior appointment with the property for each shoot. It's just an agency run by the NT that charges you a fee to use photographs of subjects that arguably we already own. If you take photo's from outside on public land there is nothing they can do about it. Work it out. Andy EDIT: It is only for an outside license and does not cover internal shots Does this relate just to property with buildings or is it all NT land? If the latter, then it is incredibly restrictive - large sections of the UK coastline for example. I believe that "property" means buildings etc where you pay to enter. Open landscapes don't count as property, that is NT land. Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Lawrence Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Does NT mean National Twits ? Answers on a postcard please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gaffen Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I cancelled my membership of the National Trust, due to their agressive policy on photographers. They made me remove images from Alamy. English Heritage seem much more relaxed about images taken on their properties. John. Were the images you were forced to remove solely of buildings or were there general landscapes on NT properry without NT buildings as well? The were of buildings I cancelled my membership of the National Trust, due to their agressive policy on photographers. They made me remove images from Alamy. English Heritage seem much more relaxed about images taken on their properties. John. Were the images you were forced to remove solely of buildings or were there general landscapes on NT properry without NT buildings as well? They were of buildings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Thanks Pearl and John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lewis Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hi All Not just EH and the NT has anyone been asked to remove any other stately house images lately ??? regards Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 has anyone been asked to remove any other stately house images lately ??? Chatsworth. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lewis Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kilpatrick Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Ref the Historic Scotland thing - a week after the meeting, they amalgamated with the department of works (monuments thing, can't remember it's name) and that immediately occupied all their attention and still is. However, they did understand the editorial stock issue and would be likely to support photographers shooting pictorial stock (i.e., what photographers have done since the art was invented). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allison J Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The National Trust manages these heritage sites, bequeathed to them and bought by them with donations from the public I find their policy extremely irritating, perhaps even outrageous. I started looking into the matter some time ago as a I have a a lot of images taken in parkland. I looked to using them "for commercial gain" and after enquiries thought life is too short for this. This thread is making me re think John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The NT is misusing a byelaw intended for a different purpose to protect the monopoly of their picture library. It may be that they well know their position is indefensible in law, which is why they are strongarming agencies instead of mounting a prosecution. I for one would consider pleading not guilty if prosecuted (I'd pass the hat round here for my defence- you have been warned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 When I lived in England, I remember thinking all these Heritage rules echoed back to the middle ages when the gentry and the church totally controlled the peasants. We seem to be having a version of that here in the USA, where the 1% (the very very rich) are making all the rules; we're killing our traditional middle class. A new skyscraper, just south of central park, is about to open; they have some flats that are selling for one-hundred million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidC Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Don't you call us peasants Ed - just because you've booked your new flat.........'twas ever thus - I can just remember those wealthy GI's in the mid 1940's.......chewing gum, nylon stockings - the buggers even had chocolate ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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