John Mitchell Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Recent speculation about lithium-ion batteries in the cargo hold of Malaysia Airlines 370 being a possible cause of the recent crash has got me thinking. Has anyone ever had a lithium-ion camera or laptop battery overheat and catch fire? Might airlines start banning them altogether, even in airplane cabins? If so, it would be very problematic for travelling photographers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan_Andison Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Recent speculation about lithium-ion batteries in the cargo hold of Malaysia Airlines 370 being a possible cause of the recent crash has got me thinking. Has anyone ever had a lithium-ion camera or laptop battery overheat and catch fire? Might airlines start banning them altogether, even in airplane cabins? If so, it would be very problematic for travelling photographers. Also anyone with a mobile phone as they also use the same type of batteries. Camera ones, as a rule, are a little more robust. They have a hard plastic shell whereas mobile phones often have a thickish metal foil wrapper that can be easily pierced. Once pierced, they can burst into flames. In the UK now, you can only send parcels (by air) with these batteries if they are inside the actual equipment and not lose in a box (unless you are a wholesaler and they have special docs to complete I think). This would suggest their concerns are with the batteries being pierced and catching fire, the equipment would provide additional protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 When I go to the Post Office to send ANYTHING...even an medium size enveleope,the clerk will ask,'Anything liquid,fragile or perishable? Any batteries?'Once I've said no to all,then I have to sign the electronic device as 'No.' I've always had a concern with those batteries. I put a small one in backwards into one of my cheapo ebay faux Pocket Wizards and within seconds it started smoking. So I now ship cameras by UPS ground. Does anyone know if draining the battery prior to shipping should be done? Years ago someone suggested that. Last time when I went out of town I ordered extra batteries and just had them sent to my destination. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Lithium batteries are known to be vulnerable to overheating and are relatively inflammable. There was a major recall some 10 years ago of batteries in Dell, Sony, Apple, Toshiba, Hitachi etc products. That said, many billions are produced annually and are transported and used without problem. I think that you have more chance of winning the lottery than having an issue with your battery. Our thoughts are with the poor souls, and their families, on the ill fated Malaysian flight. dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So I now ship cameras by UPS ground. Does anyone know if draining the battery prior to shipping should be done? My understanding is that the electrolyte is the inflammable component. dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi2ap Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This was recently posted on the 43 Rumors website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Lowe Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 See here ..... http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_of_lithium_ion_batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrioticAlien Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sony, HP and some other laptop brands once issued a waning a few years ago for some ion battery's since they could catch fire. All Battery's can blow up, I knew a friend who left a li-po battery on a dashboard of car one day. on a very hot day blew the car up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Lithium batteries can be dangerous if not treated with respect. i.e. overcharging, shorting terminals etc. When one of the above occurs there is a chemical reaction which is self sustaining even when the power to the battery is cut off. The reaction builds up heat and at temperatures above 160 degrees C the Lithium breaks down and releases gaseous oxygen, which increases pressure within the battery causing the case, either soft or hard, to burst and fire ensues. Because the Lithium is producing gaseous oxygen it immediately bursts into flame. It is not the oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere the causes the initial conflagration. There are also toxic by-products to be aware of so try not to breath the resulting smoke and fumes if you should be unfortunate enough to encounter a burning Lith battery. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 With lithium ion batteries being so hazardous,you'd think a company would try and create a safe replacement. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 With lithium ion batteries being so hazardous,you'd think a company would try and create a safe replacement. L Good idea by the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Lithium batteries can be dangerous if not treated with respect. i.e. overcharging, shorting terminals etc. When one of the above occurs there is a chemical reaction which is self sustaining even when the power to the battery is cut off. The reaction builds up heat and at temperatures above 160 degrees C the Lithium breaks down and releases gaseous oxygen, which increases pressure within the battery causing the case, either soft or hard, to burst and fire ensues. Because the Lithium is producing gaseous oxygen it immediately bursts into flame. It is not the oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere the causes the initial conflagration. There are also toxic by-products to be aware of so try not to breath the resulting smoke and fumes if you should be unfortunate enough to encounter a burning Lith battery. Allan Speaking of possible chemical reactions: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrioticAlien Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 With lithium ion batteries being so hazardous,you'd think a company would try and create a safe replacement. L maybe they will bubble rap all cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Energy density. If you want a battery to last for hundreds of exposures, live with the risk. Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Energy density. If you want a battery to last for hundreds of exposures, live with the risk. Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. After recent problems with lithium-ion batteries in aircraft cargo holds, I have a feeling that there will be a rush to develop a less volatile alternative that will last for 100's of exposures. Personally, I wouldn't want to fly on a commercial jet with hundreds of pounds of lithium-ion batteries in the cargo bin like Malaysia 370. Can't comment on your last line. Is it Shakespearean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. Can't comment on your last line. Is it Shakespearean? Brits have their own slang. http://www.reddit.com/r/answers/comments/fftx6/can_a_uk_bloke_explain_ooh_err_missus_to_me/ As a native speaker of English you obviously expect to understand everything. Being Danish I know that I don't. The Internet is my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 In the early days of Li-ion batteries my father had the battery in a Nikon Coolpix, and its replacement, overheat enough to distort the camera body; that was while the battery was in the camera. Would have been about contemporary with a spate of similar battery issues in other settings: laptops etc I am sure there will already be effort going into alternative high power density electricity storage; cars, hand tools etc all currently relyon batteries that use nasty materials. But I suspect that high power density and highly reactive materials go hand in hand, I am not an electro-chemist but will have a word with a chemical engineer friend who has worked with battery manufacturer when I next see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. Can't comment on your last line. Is it Shakespearean? Brits have their own slang. http://www.reddit.com/r/answers/comments/fftx6/can_a_uk_bloke_explain_ooh_err_missus_to_me/ As a native speaker of English you obviously expect to understand everything. Being Danish I know that I don't. The Internet is my friend. My parents were both British, and I lived in London for a while as a kid. Nevertheless, I sometimes need the services of a translator. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Watkins Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Meanwhile, the double entendrified "strap-ons" appears to be universally understood. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Todd Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Energy density. If you want a battery to last for hundreds of exposures, live with the risk. Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. After recent problems with lithium-ion batteries in aircraft cargo holds, I have a feeling that there will be a rush to develop a less volatile alternative that will last for 100's of exposures. Personally, I wouldn't want to fly on a commercial jet with hundreds of pounds of lithium-ion batteries in the cargo bin like Malaysia 370. Can't comment on your last line. Is it Shakespearean? I wouldn't like to fly with that cargo either but I don't recall ever being told what would be in the hold when booking my flights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Energy density. If you want a battery to last for hundreds of exposures, live with the risk. Otherwise we're back to strap-ons, ooer missus. After recent problems with lithium-ion batteries in aircraft cargo holds, I have a feeling that there will be a rush to develop a less volatile alternative that will last for 100's of exposures. Personally, I wouldn't want to fly on a commercial jet with hundreds of pounds of lithium-ion batteries in the cargo bin like Malaysia 370. Can't comment on your last line. Is it Shakespearean? I wouldn't like to fly with that cargo either but I don't recall ever being told what would be in the hold when booking my flights Yes, airline passengers certainly don't have many rights these days. Not only are we crammed into our seats like factory-farm chickens, but we also aren't told what dangers might be lurking beneath our feet. Who knows what the heck they've got stowed away down there in the cargo bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWatkins Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Does anyone know if draining the battery prior to shipping should be done? Definately not. Li-ion and Li-polymer batteries should never be allowed to drop below 3v per cell. If they do, they are at risk of swelling and bursting into flames when next charged. They should ideally be stored (and presumably posted) at half charge. I know this because I give li-po batteries some serious work to do racing electric model cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyn Llun Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm old enough to remember lead-acid batteries in my Mecablitz and Braun flashguns. They had to be charged and the acid topped up with distilled water from time to time. I still have the little squeezy bottle with a long thin nozzle that came with the Braun packs for that purpose. It sits in my toolbox now filled with oil for lubricating those important little places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm old enough to remember lead-acid batteries in my Mecablitz and Braun flashguns. They had to be charged and the acid topped up with distilled water from time to time. I still have the little squeezy bottle with a long thin nozzle that came with the Braun packs for that purpose. It sits in my toolbox now filled with oil for lubricating those important little places. I'm old enough to remember the days we ran on coal gas. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I remember the gasman turning my gran's pilot light off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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