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Maybe I'm not as well organised as most, but I do find it useful to check my keywords some while after processing. I try to get the bulk of the keywording done in Lightroom, but, inevitably, I find additional relevant things to add once they are uploaded.

 

I recently uploaded a few batches of images and keyworded them in one session. Checking over them this morning I found three incomplete captions, several missing important keywords and a spelling error. No doubt other inadequacies have escaped under the radar.  :unsure:

 

 

 

Edited by Bryan

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I don't have a huge number of images yet, so I do go back over them occasionally to tweak captions and tags.

I'm probably a bit of a dinosaur and don't tag in Lightroom, rather just do the edits and get the images uploaded and through QC, then dip in and out when time permits to get tagging and captions in place. I also only upload relatively small batches so the task doesn't get too daunting. Can't think of anything worse that being confronted by a hundred pictures or more that need to be cleared. I think with small batches there is also less chance of errors creeping in.

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I empathise with you. On this rainy day I am going back over the Live News images I uploaded last month. It's laborious work, but I've found massively inadequate captions with little or no detail about the image, all sacrificed for speed of upload at the time. Keywording properly now will convert these news images into good solid stock for the future, so I consider it is time well-spent, even though it is tedious and time consuming.

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- and remarkable how much better one has become at keywording during the last 3-4 years. I often go back and improve substantially at random or when my attention is drawn to a certain image or subject.

Edited by Niels Quist
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I do all my tags and captions in AIM after the snaps pass QC. My reason is that I'm not comfortable dealing with visual imagery and information research in the same work period. I'm sure I could do the keywording in LR, and I've thought about it, but I don't see that it would save me much time. 

 

When I'm walking around shooting this and that, I'm a photographer. When I edit in LR and PS, with a possible stop in at Nik, I'm a painter. When I do the tags and write the captions, I'm a researcher and writer. Different parts of the brain being used, I think. 

 

I usually take a look at the data when an image gets zoomed, but I've not gone back to redo large batches.

 

Edo

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I recently had Alamy send me a copy of all my metadata (4,000 images) as a spreadsheet which made it easy to scan through the whole lot. I was surprised to find that I'd unintentionally left some fields blank (number of people, releases, property and releases) on about 20 images. It only happened on images I've tagged using the new AIM and is caused by failing to scroll the "optional" window back up to the top when swapping between images. :( 

 

I soon got them fixed and will need to be more careful in future.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

I do all my tags and captions in AIM after the snaps pass QC. My reason is that I'm not comfortable dealing with visual imagery and information research in the same work period. I'm sure I could do the keywording in LR, and I've thought about it, but I don't see that it would save me much time. 

 

When I'm walking around shooting this and that, I'm a photographer. When I edit in LR and PS, with a possible stop in at Nik, I'm a painter. When I do the tags and write the captions, I'm a researcher and writer. Different parts of the brain being used, I think. 

 

I usually take a look at the data when an image gets zoomed, but I've not gone back to redo large batches.

 

Edo

I see where you are coming from with this approach Edo, but, speaking with the zeal of a late convert, the keyword editor in LR is so much easier to use than that in AIM. LR is a database with a raw converter bolted on, and I find it possible to compartmentalise the keywording chore before starting any image processing. 

 

I still fall into the trap of occasionally forgetting that AIM does not automatically  close down one image when another is selected, and find myself having to do remedial work, deleting irrelevant keywords, and that's assuming that I have become aware of the error.

 

I also share Mark's concern over the optional nature of the people and property fields. No doubt there are skeletons in my cupboard due to having missed these essential steps.

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I do bulk keywording as part of my upload/download process from my SD card into Lightroom. I may then tweak batches of them in LR after I've culled a shoot, but I don't usually fine tune each photo until after I've processed them. I check each processed image before upload to Alamy or elsewhere to make sure that there aren't any irrelevant or missing keywords so each image has only the keywords that are specific to it.  Since different sites have different requirements and limits - for example, I also upload to fine art sites - I usually have to tweak both captions and keywords a bit for each site. 

 

Despite my best efforts, there is always something I've forgotten or missed so I periodically go in and check the live images, although now with the new tag system here, it feels daunting. But I know that while a picture is worth a thousand words, it is the keywords that get those pictures to show up in the first place.

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I really need to look into LR keywording - at the moment my workflow and logic are very similar to Ed Rooney, but I appreciate LR can offer much more.  The problem is finding the time to learn it - whenever I learn a new skill/workflow it slows me down a couple of weeks while it becomes natural and at the moment life is not giving me any space lol

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We all tend to getting immersed in our own workflow. If I ever settle anywhere, I will look into keying in LR. But I don't do bulk editing: I deal with each image one at a time. I pay minimum attention to sales and price -- that's Alamy's department. I never think in terms like "perfect" or "great" or "art." I'm in the image production business, and I try to produce very good stock photographs. Sometimes I fall short of that goal. 

 

I'm truly amazed that some people can come up with 50 tags; I have not got a single image that has 50 tags -- not one, and not even close. Still I'm doing OK. Buyers find my images. 

 

This tread did get me to go back and check my keywords on earlier submissions. God, what a tedious job! :(

 

 

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Keywording is very tedious and I'm not that confident with them.  Hoping someone someday will devise a system so that keywords will be applied automatically - I like to dream;)

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19 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

I'm truly amazed that some people can come up with 50 tags; I have not got a single image that has 50 tags -- not one, and not even close.

I perpetually run out of tags!  I do a lot of City of London skyline panoramas, which often include multiple buildings with several names: for example, The Cheesegrater is also known as The Leadenhall Building and 122 Leadenhall Street.  Include Tower 42 previously known as the National Westminster Tower and popularly the NatWest Tower, or the Heron Tower which is also known as Salesforce Tower and 110 Bishopsgate and you can see the tags getting used up very rapidly.

 

My problem more often is keeping within the overall character limit.  I am not sure what this is, but it may be 600.  And keeping to the character limit per tag can also be challenging, particularly for St Basil's Cathedral in Red Square, Moscow, which has several alternative names which include its actual official name which is:  "Cathedral of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos on the Moat" - including this within a single tag was a challenge on which I (and AIM) entirely failed :D

 

Graham

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41 minutes ago, Graham said:

I perpetually run out of tags!  I do a lot of City of London skyline panoramas, which often include multiple buildings with several names: for example, The Cheesegrater is also known as The Leadenhall Building and 122 Leadenhall Street.  Include Tower 42 previously known as the National Westminster Tower and popularly the NatWest Tower, or the Heron Tower which is also known as Salesforce Tower and 110 Bishopsgate and you can see the tags getting used up very rapidly.

 

My problem more often is keeping within the overall character limit.  I am not sure what this is, but it may be 600.  And keeping to the character limit per tag can also be challenging, particularly for St Basil's Cathedral in Red Square, Moscow, which has several alternative names which include its actual official name which is:  "Cathedral of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos on the Moat" - including this within a single tag was a challenge on which I (and AIM) entirely failed :D

 

Graham

Cathedral of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos on the Moat does show up as a search term but you would need to include it in the caption rather than as a tag.

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On 12/09/2018 at 04:13, Bryan said:

I see where you are coming from with this approach Edo, but, speaking with the zeal of a late convert, the keyword editor in LR is so much easier to use than that in AIM. LR is a database with a raw converter bolted on, and I find it possible to compartmentalise the keywording chore before starting any image processing. 

 

I still fall into the trap of occasionally forgetting that AIM does not automatically  close down one image when another is selected, and find myself having to do remedial work, deleting irrelevant keywords, and that's assuming that I have become aware of the error.

 

I also share Mark's concern over the optional nature of the people and property fields. No doubt there are skeletons in my cupboard due to having missed these essential steps.

I know I keep banging on about Alamy Lightroom Bridge, but another advantage of using it is that it creates smart collections and they include images where there is missing data.

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1 hour ago, Sally said:

I know I keep banging on about Alamy Lightroom Bridge, but another advantage of using it is that it creates smart collections and they include images where there is missing data.

I don't suppose there is anything as useful as a youtube video specifically focused on using Lightroom and Bridge to keyword for stock?

 

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On 12/09/2018 at 10:24, Starsphinx said:

I really need to look into LR keywording

 

 

It's a part of the  Alamy workshop that i run in Cirencester.......at least in passing....it's a whole workshop in itself

 

km

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On 9/13/2018 at 07:08, Graham said:

I perpetually run out of tags!  I do a lot of City of London skyline panoramas, which often include multiple buildings with several names: for example, The Cheesegrater is also known as The Leadenhall Building and 122 Leadenhall Street.  Include Tower 42 previously known as the National Westminster Tower and popularly the NatWest Tower, or the Heron Tower which is also known as Salesforce Tower and 110 Bishopsgate and you can see the tags getting used up very rapidly.

 

My problem more often is keeping within the overall character limit.  I am not sure what this is, but it may be 600.  And keeping to the character limit per tag can also be challenging, particularly for St Basil's Cathedral in Red Square, Moscow, which has several alternative names which include its actual official name which is:  "Cathedral of the Intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos on the Moat" - including this within a single tag was a challenge on which I (and AIM) entirely failed :D

 

Graham

 

That's certainly food for thought, Graham. And I will give it some.

 

Edo 

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On 13/09/2018 at 12:07, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

Keywording is very tedious and I'm not that confident with them.  Hoping someone someday will devise a system so that keywords will be applied automatically - I like to dream;)

You might want to take a look at this You Tube video by Jim Keir, rwho had built a plugin to help with keywording. It complementshu Alamy Lightroom Bridge plug-in.

 

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I do most of my keywording in Photo Mechanic before uploading, but I usually add more tags in AIM. When I revisit old images, I always find plenty of boo-boos and think of additional words and phrases. Like everything else in life, it's a work-in-progress.

 

There's obviously still a lot to learn about how the brain handles language. The whole left brain/right brain thing has always sounded a bit too clear-cut (bad pun, sorry) to me. The brain may be more holistic than we now think when it comes to processing words and images.

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2 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

I do most of my keywording in Photo Mechanic before uploading, but I usually add more tags in AIM. When I revisit old images, I always find plenty of boo-boos and think of additional words and phrases. Like everything else in life, it's a work-in-progress.

 

There's obviously still a lot to learn about how the brain handles language. The whole left brain/right brain thing has always sounded a bit too clear-cut (bad pun, sorry) to me. The brain may be more holistic than we now think when it comes to processing words and images.

Try having a brain that works in a weird way and is subject to bits of synesthesia (temperature is colour and I have been known to describe an excuciating pain as "sweet")  some of the things I would keyword are so weird nobody would ever get them lol - I have to concentrate on trying to work out what other people will search for

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2 hours ago, Starsphinx said:

Try having a brain that works in a weird way and is subject to bits of synesthesia (temperature is colour and I have been known to describe an excuciating pain as "sweet")  some of the things I would keyword are so weird nobody would ever get them lol - I have to concentrate on trying to work out what other people will search for

 

I've read that Vincent Van Gogh and a number of other famous artists experienced synesthesia, so you're in good company. Perhaps it's the rest of us who are weird.

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