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Hello clever people..

Could somebody suggest a workflow to this techno-idiot please ?

I am using a Fuji X-T2, Irident X transformer and PS Elelments 13.

Elements 13 isn't compatible with ACR and the X-T2 which is one reason why I am using the X transformer for RAW processing.

At the moment I import the images ( RAW + JPEG), convert the RAW to DNG with the X Transformer and go from there to Elements.

Two things strike me about this - firstly it's a bit long winded but also I end up storing the original RAF and the converted DNG of each image (+ jpegs) which to

me means that I'm filling my storage space at twice the rate that I used to do.

I'm looking for a solution that will save me time but also be more economical with my hard drives. As you probably have gathered I struggle to get my head round 

most things computer-related !

 

Thanks for indulging me,

Geoff 

 

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One word to simplify your workflow and be economical with your hard drive space if necessary: Lightroom. As it is not available any more as a standalone, the Adobe CC photography package is the only sensible option and well worth the subscription.

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You don't need to keep the DNG- you can just reprocess if you need one.

BTW LR is still available non-subscription but it won't be updated. So you could end up having to do the conversion with a new camera unless you subscribe. Presumably that's the idea- to force you into a subscription.

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39 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

You don't need to keep the DNG- you can just reprocess if you need one.

BTW LR is still available non-subscription but it won't be updated. So you could end up having to do the conversion with a new camera unless you subscribe. Presumably that's the idea- to force you into a subscription.

 

That may be ok if you never want to reprocess images. A dump the DNG or nuke the NEF philosophy perhaps. Maybe you are happy with everything first time.

 

Me I tend to reprocess frequently - a little tweak here or there on the raw file maybe, partially dependent on mood, or it may be I want to make a print or whatever. Do I really want to start from scratch again. Well no I don't. I do value my time and my work. And I keep the PSDs as well if I have worked on them. Hard drives are really cheap these days, time is valuable.

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Hardly "from scratch" when you still have the raw file. I value my time, don't need DNGs or reprocess often, and I'll stand to be corrected, but a DNG is just a copy of the RAW, isn't it?

I was answering the OP's question as he said he was filling his storage space. And I did put need in italics- I probably wouldn't do it myself. But yes, hard drive space is cheap- cheaper than software subscriptions, even?

Edited by spacecadet

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1 hour ago, spacecadet said:

Hardly "from scratch" when you still have the raw file. I value my time, don't need DNGs or reprocess often, and I'll stand to be corrected, but a DNG is just a copy of the RAW, isn't it?

I was answering the OP's question as he said he was filling his storage space. And I did put need in italics- I probably wouldn't do it myself. But yes, hard drive space is cheap- cheaper than software subscriptions, even?

 

It would be from scratch if you don't keep the sidecar file as nothing is saved into the raw file. That is one of the differences between raw and DNG and there are others. The conversion data is embedded in the DNG. I don't use DNG at all though (except for panoramas in Lightroom). I have always kept up to date with Photoshop, ACR and more recently Lightroom so DNG is unnecessary for me as I keep the raws, the sidecars and the PSDs. 

 

For an efficient workflow, one shouldn't have to be messing about going from one program to another which is where the Adobe CC package really wins out. It is totally integrated with constant updates for new cameras and features. And Lightroom CC (now Classic) has a lot of features not in the standalone version. Well worth the £2 a week I think. When I start missing £2 a week, then life will be frugal indeed. That is why I would recommend it to geoff s.

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Darktable may also be an option to process your raw images. 

it is free, supports the fuji raw format and I found a few forum posts on Fuji forum, here and here

I also use Darktable and am more than happy with it, but with my Canon raw formats not Fuji.

 

Darktable is open source and comes for free and can be downloaded from here; 

Works on all environments like a charm, Mac, Windups ;) and Linux. 

Quite a few tutorial videos on youtube as well

 

If you give it a shot would be nice to hear your experience. 

 

Edited by hdh

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Geoff S, for what its worth, this is my PP workflow:

 

LR Classic > NX2 > PhotoShop. Both my Adobe apps are on CC. I download my Sony RAW files by USB and do most of my basic editing in Lightroom, including any noise reduction I need. I save the image to my desktop as a tiff, and often drag it into NX2, where I can work on small, selected areas. The tiff is then moved into PS, where I clean up the image with the Spot Healing Brush and Clone Stamp Tool, looking carefully at each image at 100%. When I'm done, I might crop some (if I haven't cropped in LR), and I usually downsize a little. Finally, I convert the image to a jpeg, which I submit to Alamy. I work on one image at a time, taking the time that's needed. 

 

Edo

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Import to Lightroom>edit/caption/keyword >FTP straight to Alamy......

 

km

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4 hours ago, MDM said:

One word to simplify your workflow and be economical with your hard drive space if necessary: Lightroom. As it is not available any more as a standalone, the Adobe CC photography package is the only sensible option and well worth the subscription.

 

Lightroom no longer available as standalone? Did I miss something? Amazon are still selling Version 6.0 and it still appears to be available to buy directly from Adobe too. Not sure if version 6.0 supports Fuji XT-2 but I would have thought so, especially once the free of charge update from Adobe from 6.0 to LR 6.14 is installed.

 

Mark

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5 hours ago, hdh said:

Darktable may also be an option to process your raw images. 

it is free, supports the fuji raw format and I found a few forum posts on Fuji forum, here and here

I also use Darktable and am more than happy with it, but with my Canon raw formats not Fuji.

 

Darktable is open source and comes for free and can be downloaded from here; 

Works on all environments like a charm, Mac, Windups ;) and Linux. 

Quite a few tutorial videos on youtube as well

 

If you give it a shot would be nice to hear your experience. 

 

Whats the catch or downside if there is one. Nothing ever comes free. Is it ad laden etc

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3 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Lightroom no longer available as standalone? Did I miss something? Amazon are still selling Version 6.0 and it still appears to be available to buy directly from Adobe too. Not sure if version 6.0 supports Fuji XT-2 but I would have thought so, especially once the free of charge update from Adobe from 6.0 to LR 6.14 is installed.

 

Mark

 

No you're correct - apologies for my misunderstanding. LR6 is not longer supported since the beginning of the year although it is still for sale direct from Adobe. However it is already a long way behind the subscription product in terms of features and probably speed as well so is effectively a dead end. 

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5 hours ago, hdh said:

Darktable may also be an option to process your raw images. 

it is free, supports the fuji raw format and I found a few forum posts on Fuji forum, here and here

I also use Darktable and am more than happy with it, but with my Canon raw formats not Fuji.

 

Darktable is open source and comes for free and can be downloaded from here; 

Works on all environments like a charm, Mac, Windups ;) and Linux. 

Quite a few tutorial videos on youtube as well

 

If you give it a shot would be nice to hear your experience. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Futterwithtrees said:

Whats the catch or downside if there is one. Nothing ever comes free. Is it ad laden etc

 

If I recall correctly, hdh refuses to use Adobe and Apple products (as well as others) on some sort of idealistic grounds it appears. Given that stance, it is not clear how he knows it works like a charm on a Mac and how charming it is in comparison to Lightroom. I'm guessing you are unlikely to get an informed comparison unless he has changed his workflow significantly in the last 18 months. Then again one man's charm is another man's poison as somebody must have said at least once.

 

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17 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

I process in Photoshop, upload to save one copy of JPEGs on Photoshelter/my website, caption/keyword them and ftp to agencies, save RAWS in Photoshelter, on desktop external HD, and BTCloud ( 3 copies of each RAW file). Then delete from my Mac and clear from camera memory card

 

I'd strongly suggest subscribing to the monthly Adobe package rather than messing about with Elements.

 

I don't use Lightroom at all, don't use Tiffs/DNGs

 

Lightroom is a massive timesaver for raw conversion and metatdata handling in comparison to using Photoshop.  If you have CC and are not using Lightroom, you are almost certainly wasting a lot of time.

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I may be wrong but i think it is better to be comfortable with the software you have and know it inside out, rather than get software because its what everybody else uses and cannot use its full potential. Unless it has obvious shortcomings.

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49 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Thanks for your advice but I don't want to use Lightroom and am quite happy as I am. 

 

Don't mention it. Happy to be of no help whatsoever.

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35 minutes ago, aphperspective said:

I may be wrong but i think it is better to be comfortable with the software you have and know it inside out, rather than get software because its what everybody else uses and cannot use its full potential. Unless it has obvious shortcomings.

 

There may be a good reason why a lot of people use a particular software though (probably because it is very good) and staying in one's comfort zone is not always the best approach. It might mean an initial investment of time to learn something new but the benefits can be significant. 

Edited by MDM

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10 minutes ago, Futterwithtrees said:

Whats the catch or downside if there is one. Nothing ever comes free. Is it ad laden etc

To what is the catch with open source software is, some advantages and disadvantages are in this wikipedia article

if you asked me - there  is only one, catch and the disadvantages layed out in wikipedia are just a small nuisance if felt at all. 

The single catch I see is, you will have to invest a considerable amount of time (measured in hours) to download, install, learn and evaluate the software.   

If you have some hours to spend - which one would do with any other software - it may be well worth the effort. 
 

1 minute ago, MDM said:

If I recall correctly, hdh refuses to use Adobe and Apple products (as well as others) on some sort of idealistic grounds it appears. Given that stance, it is not clear how he knows it works like a charm on a Mac and how charming it is in comparison to Lightroom. I'm guessing you are unlikely to get an informed comparison unless he has changed his workflow significantly in the last 18 months. Then again one man's charm is another man's poison as somebody must have said at least once.

 

Correct, I have not compared these myself, only by looking at various forum posts, it appears to me that Darktable works in all environments.

Whether the functionality or the user interface of Darktable is to ones individual liking, is the bigger question. 

 

Also spot on that I only use free and open source software (FOSS).

This is not to be confused with freeware or free gimicks, that only come as an appetiser to make you buy the "right stuff".  

 

I use Linux and OpenBSD as operating systems (and neither MacOS or Windows)

As Software I mainly use.

- Darktable to process my raw files. 

- GIMP to "photo(shop)" things  

- Digikam to organise my collections. 

- Libreoffice to do my worksheets, lettres, documentations, articles, presentations, ... 

+many more to be listed here

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27 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

There may be a good reason why a lot of people use a particular software though (probably because it is very good) and staying in one's comfort zone is not always the best approach. It might mean an initial investment of time to learn something new but the benefits can be significant. 

Both very valid points, i was not for or against any particular piece of software, merely saying that some people are perfectly happy using what they have providing the desired results are achieved.

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1 hour ago, hdh said:

Correct, I have not compared these myself, only by looking at various forum posts, it appears to me that Darktable works in all environments.

Whether the functionality or the user interface of Darktable is to ones individual liking, is the bigger question. 

 

 

Does Darktable facilitate spot healing, cloning etc etc. Thanks I currently use "A VERSION" of Photoshop that works well for me but am always willing to learn and experiment.

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6 minutes ago, Futterwithtrees said:

Does Darktable facilitate spot healing, cloning etc etc. Thanks I currently use "A VERSION" of Photoshop that works well for me but am always willing to learn and experiment.

 

Yep, its got spot removal also including cloning. 

There are also *a lot of* etc, etc .... please click the link for a high level feature list. 

If you need even more details, here is the manual (also available in French, Italian ans Spanish

 

Last but not least some youtube vid's, as I do not really watch videos, I cannot recommend any. 

Beware that some of the videos on youtube may refer to ancient versions of Darktable. 

Probably best to select a more recent video not more than 6 month old. 

 

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-- Deleted --

Edited by fotoDogue

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13 hours ago, geoff s said:

Hello clever people..

Could somebody suggest a workflow to this techno-idiot please ?

I'm looking for a solution that will save me time but also be more economical with my hard drives. As you probably have gathered I struggle to get my head round 

most things computer-related !

 

Thanks for indulging me,

Geoff 

 

 

2 hours ago, aphperspective said:

Both very valid points, i was not for or against any particular piece of software, merely saying that some people are perfectly happy using what they have providing the desired results are achieved.

 

2 hours ago, MDM said:

 

There may be a good reason why a lot of people use a particular software though (probably because it is very good) and staying in one's comfort zone is not always the best approach. It might mean an initial investment of time to learn something new but the benefits can be significant. 

 

Just getting back to the OP's initial question and he clearly isn't happy. A Lightroom (± Photoshop) workflow is I believe by far the most efficient and cost effective workflow (including time in that assessment). There are alternatives but they lack the integration of Lightroom which combines an excellent raw converter with a very fast database for metadata and file management plus other stuff such as the Print module which most people don't use but which is well worth getting to know for anybody doing their own printing. I use Photoshop much less than I used to do but still use it for spotting and any intricate selecting and retouching. 
 

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Geoff s, Good advice above on the Adobe subscription if and only if you feel you can afford it. I use PS and Bridge to cull. What’s left is loaded to LIghtroom where I simply use the development panels. One feature I particularly like in Lightroom and I believe is better than the Photoshop version is the correction of buildings’ perspectives.  

I then open the LR developed images as Tiffs into Photoshop, and do what Ed does. Spot, crop, inspect. Sometimes use layers to adjust a few areas. (Instead of NX) Sometimes downsize. Keyword in Bridge. Then upload the jpegs. 

I save the Raw and the jpeg to 2 hard drives.

I shoot Fuji X-T2 also. And RX100 lll.

Betty

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I certainly don't class myself as a clever person but can make some workflow suggestions. If space is a problem then is it necessary to shoot both raw and jpeg? Why not raw only? Try using the free Adobe raw converter to convert your raws to dngs on import, this should also save space. My personal workflow is DXO (as a raw converter) to lightroom (which I am not a fan of) and finishing off in Photoshop. 

As has been stated above there are many ways of achieving the same result and it is just finding one that is right for you.

good luck

Joe

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