Good visibility - requirements

[Sultanpepa]

How many keywords are needed to achieve "good visibility"?

 

[Allan Bell]

50 I believe. But I do not bother with it. Just keyword images with what you see. Do not think visibility is working anyway.

 

Allan

 

 

[Joseph Clemson]

I think it depends on the combination of tags and supertags. In some experiments I have conducted I have achieved 'good visibility' with 43 tags when 10 are supertags. I've not yet worked out what permutations reach that goal.

 

I've been experimenting on a few images on getting keywords to get them into the green region and I can tell you, I find it hard work. Putting in appropriate keywords to reach above 40 without spamming is not an easy task IMHO.

[Phil Robinson]

I think the term 'good' visibility should be replaced with 'lots of' visibility - not a good thing for your ranking if they are visible to people who don't want to see them.

I tried at first to get lots of my images to turn green - I now find myself deleting some of the tags I added back then, because they are simple irrelevant.

'Visibility' is irrelevant. Add the keywords you think apply to the image, as has always been the case.

 

I started doing it so I could see which of my newly-uploaded images had been done and which still needed work. I now do things differently - just because it hasn't turned green doesn't mean it needs more work.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Phil Robinson

[Patrick Cooper]

I'm surprised that one of my last submissions with over 50 tags didn't get the green bar (it's still orange.) As usual, I wasn't spamming.

[Kukkudrill]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Cooper said:

I'm surprised that one of my last submissions with over 50 tags didn't get the green bar (it's still orange.) As usual, I wasn't spamming.

 

Did you set supertags? Add location data and categories?

[Patrick Cooper]

33 minutes ago, Kukkudrill said:

 

Did you set supertags? Add location data and categories?

 

Yea I think I may have forgotten to set the supertags. Easily fixed.

[Sultanpepa]

Reason I asked was I didn't realise there was an intermediate level. I thought there was only "poor" and "optimized". All bar one that I have are poor, with only one optimized. Now I know that "optimized" is not strictly speaking a good thing but I think I should aim for "good". It can be difficult to think up tags but maybe I should put in more effort. Tagging is not my favourite pastime. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Sultanpepa

[RedSnapper]

Easy to find out

 

Chose one image

Fill in  these  'optional' fields (MR/PR/Date Taken/Location/Primary Category..)

Add 10 supertags

The add more regular tags....

You'll find that once you get to 40 tags the bar will turn green

 

simple

 

km

 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by RedSnapper

[Betty LaRue]

Agree with Keith. 40 tags, 10 supertags, then fill out everything on the Optional page will get you “good”.

40-43 tags will still leave you room to later batch select a few images to add something you may have forgotten.

Betty

 

 

 

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Sultanpepa said:

Reason I asked was I didn't realise there was an intermediate level. I thought there was only "poor" and "optimized". All bar one that I have are poor, with only one optimized. Now I know that "optimized" is not strictly speaking a good thing but I think I should aim for "good". It can be difficult to think up tags but maybe I should put in more effort. Tagging is not my favourite pastime. 

 

The magic number does seem to be 40 tags. Getting to green can be a long haul. I've always been an economical keyworder, but I'm now trying to add more tags to my images. I've recently doubled my number of "good or optimized" images from two to four.

 

 

[Sultanpepa]

5 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

Easy to find out

 

Chose one image

Fill in  these  'optional' fields (MR/PR/Date Taken/Location/Primary Category..)

Add 10 supertags

The add more regular tags....

You'll find that once you get to 40 tags the bar will turn green

 

simple

 

km

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Agree with Keith. 40 tags, 10 supertags, then fill out everything on the Optional page will get you “good”.

40-43 tags will still leave you room to later batch select a few images to add something you may have forgotten.

Betty

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

 

The magic number does seem to be 40 tags. Getting to green can be a long haul. I've always been an economical keyworder, but I'm now trying to add more tags to my images. I've recently doubled my number of "good or optimized" images from two to four.

 

 

 

40's the magic number then? Ok thanks I'll give it a try.

[spacecadet]

Two thirds of my images have poor visibility.

Fortunately no-one has told the buyers.

[John Mitchell]

2 hours ago, Sultanpepa said:

 

 

 

40's the magic number then? Ok thanks I'll give it a try.

 

Try counting backwards. It can make the job easier.

[Phil Robinson]

I think all the terms used in this visibility thing are, at best, misleading.
The whole Alamy ranking system works on accurate keywording and no spamming, penalising contributors who use irrelevant keywords by pushing their images further down search results.

All the language around this visibility issue is saying 'more is better'. 

For me, 'optimised' should mean that all the relevant fields have been filled in and you have SOME added tags and supertags. The idea that adding 50 keywords is very good and only adding 12 is poor completely contradicts everything Alamy have been telling us for years. Some images need 50 keywords (not many of mine) but some simple images only need a few. 
If you think a tag is relevant and someone using it as a search term would want to see that image, add it.

If you find yourself desperately trying to think of new terms that sort of fit the image, simply to change an orange bar to a green one, don't.

[Davey Towers]

I agree Phil. Out of my small port I would say 20% are "Green", and that was only because when the system changed everyone went into a panic with updating keywords/tags. I gave up in the end as when I searched "Orange" images they mostly appeared within one or two pages of the images visible! Most of my port are food related and at the end of the day there's only so many tags I can think of for a bacon sandwich.......and it's not 40!!!

[Sultanpepa]

8 minutes ago, Phil Robinson said:

I think all the terms used in this visibility thing are, at best, misleading.
The whole Alamy ranking system works on accurate keywording and no spamming, penalising contributors who use irrelevant keywords by pushing their images further down search results.

All the language around this visibility issue is saying 'more is better'. 

For me, 'optimised' should mean that all the relevant fields have been filled in and you have SOME added tags and supertags. The idea that adding 50 keywords is very good and only adding 12 is poor completely contradicts everything Alamy have been telling us for years. Some images need 50 keywords (not many of mine) but some simple images only need a few. 
If you think a tag is relevant and someone using it as a search term would want to see that image, add it.

If you find yourself desperately trying to think of new terms that sort of fit the image, simply to change an orange bar to a green one, don't.

 

Whilst I agree with what you're saying Phil, I'm guessing that many of my images are poorly tagged and could do with many more added to give them a better chance. If I aim for 40 tags and fall short then at least I have tried to give an image its best chance. The secret must be not to add irrelevance.

[spacecadet]

Most of my new ones are lucky to get 30 these days. That leaves space for batch copying of old tags from similar images.

It seems Alamy isn't going to solve the problem of being unable to edit legacy images with more than 50 tags in any practical way.

In a pig's eye am I going to pick them off one by one to get below 50.

Edited October 29, 2017 by spacecadet

[Phil Robinson]

19 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Most of my new ones are lucky to get 30 these days. That leaves space for batch copying of old tags from similar images.

It seems Alamy isn't going to solve the problem of being unable to edit legacy images with more than 50 tags in any practical way.

In a pig's eye am I going to pick them off one by one to get below 50.

That's a good point about leaving space.

I frequently find myself wanting to add a tag or supertag to a batch of photos, only to be told that ONE of them already has the maximum (and it takes hours to find which one).

I now usually stop at 8 or 9 supertags just in case I think of something else later that I want to add to a large number of images.

[spacecadet]

Good plan, because when you have a batch selected you can't unsuper an individual supertag to make space for a new one..

Edited October 29, 2017 by spacecadet

[John Mitchell]

6 hours ago, Phil Robinson said:

I think all the terms used in this visibility thing are, at best, misleading.
The whole Alamy ranking system works on accurate keywording and no spamming, penalising contributors who use irrelevant keywords by pushing their images further down search results.

All the language around this visibility issue is saying 'more is better'. 

For me, 'optimised' should mean that all the relevant fields have been filled in and you have SOME added tags and supertags. The idea that adding 50 keywords is very good and only adding 12 is poor completely contradicts everything Alamy have been telling us for years. Some images need 50 keywords (not many of mine) but some simple images only need a few. 
If you think a tag is relevant and someone using it as a search term would want to see that image, add it.

If you find yourself desperately trying to think of new terms that sort of fit the image, simply to change an orange bar to a green one, don't.

 

Right, more is definitely not always better. The trick, of course, is to find as many relevant keywords as possible for each image, not just keep packing them in to reach some mystical state of "optimization". With some images, it's possible to come up with dozens of relevant tags, and with others only a handful. It depends on the subject and type of image. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by John Mitchell

[MircoV]

I believe it is not and hard task to get 40 keywords. I mean I agree you should put only relevant keywords. That logic like the earth is round. But I think next to the most important tags that shows the main subject you should put also keywords of subjects in the image elsewhere. The supertags are created to highlight the main keywords or the most important ones. If there is a trash bin in the background I will add the keyword. If there are some yellow leaves on the ground I will add it. If the sky is blue I will add blue sky. There are buyers that would like to have an image that shows those for any kind of reason that only they know. That why they are not supertags. If you tag all emotions... all things... important colors... etc you will reach easy green and you are keywording rightfull. Key is to know which keywords should be supertags and what should be in the caption. The most important that shows directly main subject should be supertags and possible added as sentence in the caption.

 

Mirco

[John Mitchell]

18 minutes ago, MircoV said:

I believe it is not and hard task to get 40 keywords. I mean I agree you should put only relevant keywords. That logic like the earth is round. But I think next to the most important tags that shows the main subject you should put also keywords of subjects in the image elsewhere. The supertags are created to highlight the main keywords or the most important ones. If there is a trash bin in the background I will add the keyword. If there are some yellow leaves on the ground I will add it. If the sky is blue I will add blue sky. There are buyers that would like to have an image that shows those for any kind of reason that only they know. That why they are not supertags. If you tag all emotions... all things... important colors... etc you will reach easy green and you are keywording rightfull. Key is to know which keywords should be supertags and what should be in the caption. The most important that shows directly main subject should be supertags and possible added as sentence in the caption.

 

Mirco

 

Not long ago, I would have totally disagreed with you -- e.g. about keywording the trash bin hidden in the background. However, it seems that things are changing. With so many images of the same subjects now on Alamy (plus recent apparent modifications to the ranking process, etc.), the details in images are probably much more important than they used to be. Better to have your image with a trash bin or yellow leaves in it come up in a search than not at all. Perhaps (?) this is what the mysterious new "discoverability" thing is all about.

[MircoV]

Thanks John for your adding :). Additionally I can say.that the above mention situation my.image will.be always come below images that have the keyword trash.bin.as supertag or in the caption.

 So my.trash bin will be just as an addition.to my main.subject.

 

Mirco

[John Mitchell]

1 hour ago, MircoV said:

Thanks John for your adding :). Additionally I can say.that the above mention situation my.image will.be always come below images that have the keyword trash.bin.as supertag or in the caption.

 So my.trash bin will be just as an addition.to my main.subject.

 

Mirco

 

That makes sense. I've been doing the same with some of my latest images. The downside to all of this is that it's going to mean spending a lot more time on tagging.

 

BTW, are we getting paid extra for this?

Edited October 29, 2017 by John Mitchell