Verticals

[Michael Ventura]

28 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I used to like the revolving back on my Mamiya RB67, it made verticals very easy. Mind you that wasn't exactly a camera to be used hand-held. I preferred the square format of the Hasselblad, and that certainly could be used hand-held, a jewel of camera. I used the Kenro masks to crop for 645 when necessary, the only problem was if you had to show contact sheets and had shot knowing that some distractions were going to be cropped out left or right or top and bottom. 6x7 trannies had more impact on the lightbox but the Hasselblad lenses were much sharper. I like Arca-Swiss compatible L-grips on my cameras, makes verticals easy if you're using a tripod or a monopod.

Yes! Loved my RZ67 and the rotating backs....had almost forgotten about the feature.

[Normspics]

I always used to shoot vertical and horizontal of each subject, alas as I age I seem to forget more these days. I do like how having verticals on my Alamy portfolio page adds a bit of visual interest, breaks up the horizontal grid.  Nice thought provoking thread Betty.

 

25% of my sales year to date are verticals

Edited October 28, 2020 by Normspics
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[Vincent Lowe]

4 hours ago, Robert M Estall said:

I never met any other photographer who embraced 220 film. It just made so much sense in so many ways.

 

I had a 220 back for my long departed Bronica SQ.  I had no problems with monochrome as I processed my own but I gave up on colour as the so-called 'professional' colour labs couldn't seem to handle it.  I had four films come back full of dust and scratches, from four different labs, two local in Manchester and two mail order.  The final straw was one that came back also covered with an oily deposit - I kicked up an unholy row with the manager over that one! 

 

I gave up after that and stuck to 120 for colour.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Vincent Lowe
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[DDoug]

3 hours ago, Robert M Estall said:

Most current cameras fall into the hand naturally to shoot horizontals and pay little attention to how they are going to work moving to the vertical shooting. A lot of that and photographers would soon be in need of physiotherapy. I once had a neat Fuji roll film camera which produced a vertical 4.5 x 6cm image when held in what appeared to be the natural horizontal shooting position. I liked it but didn't use it as much as I meant to. It got 15 shots from a standard 120 roll and 30 from a 220 roll. I never met any other photographer who embraced 220 film. It just made so much sense in so many ways.

I also used a Fuji 645. A photographer I knew referred to it as my "point and shoot Hasselblad." I also used mostly 220 in that and a Pentax 645 I once had. Given that 35mm had the emulsion spread out over sprocket holes, leader and tail, with all of it packaged in a can within a can, it was quite wasteful. Using 220, which has a paper leader and tail and is packaged in foil, the cost worked about the same per frame as mounted 35mm for around 3X the film area.

[Ed Rooney]

I started a count of my horizontal and vertical sales, but so few were verticals that I gave it up as pointless. 

 

I did take note that in the past year far and away most sales are still of NYC. The good news is that my second best selling location is . . . Liverpool. 

[Betty LaRue]

2 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

I started a count of my horizontal and vertical sales, but so few were verticals that I gave it up as pointless. 

 

I did take note that in the past year far and away most sales are still of NYC. The good news is that my second best selling location is . . . Liverpool. 

That's great. I remember all your wants/needs regarding choosing a place, so it’s good you’ve found some fertile ground. It will be nice when you can do a bit of roaming, that is, if Covid ever calms down. Now you have winter facing you.

Not sure about you, but the older I get, the less I tolerate the cold. I’ve never tolerated heat well.

[Normspics]

4 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

I started a count of my horizontal and vertical sales, but so few were verticals that I gave it up as pointless. 

 

I did take note that in the past year far and away most sales are still of NYC. The good news is that my second best selling location is . . . Liverpool. 

Ed just have to turn that camera upwards, new opportunities await

[Ed Rooney]

Bill Brooks posted, "I always shoot a vertical and a horizontal of the same shot whenever possible." I see "whenever possible" as the key part of that statement. Often, one of the compositions is forced. 

 

Betty, I've liked all the places I've passed through in the last two years — Brooklyn, San Miguel de Allende, Montreal, Lisbon, Seville, Galway, Sligo, and now Liverpool. Healthcare and legal residency have been the important issues. It's about to be winter in all parts of the Northern Hemisphere. Winter in Montreal is harsh; summer is Seville is also harsh. It rains a lot here in Liverpool but the climate is mild, never really cold or hot.  I'd be more content if I could understand Scouse. 

[M.Chapman]

On 28/10/2020 at 12:23, Michael Ventura said:

Yes! Loved my RZ67 and the rotating backs....had almost forgotten about the feature.

 

Does anyone make a digital camera with a square digital sensor + crop option (Sq/Horiz/Vert) set in camera?

 

Mark

Edited October 29, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Does anyone make a digital camera with a square digital sensor

I think you know the answer but pretty sure the answer's going to be 'no', the cost of making a square sensor would be prohibitive given that it would need to be square on the 'long' side to make any sense, so 36mm x 36mm for full frame DSLR equivalents. You could argue that an APS-C option of 24mm x 24mm might also work, it would certainly give the quality that would fulfil most stock requirements but to make any sense at all the entire camera would need to be designed around not needing to turn the camera on its side, so a Rolleiflex style camera perhaps. In 2016 Hasselblad floated the idea of the V1D but this became the X1D with a conventional medium format rectangular sensor so even they chickened out. What price a removable Hasselblad back with a digital 56 x 56mm square sensor to be used on all those classic film Hasselblads? Well, let's start at $10,000....

 

Actually shooting with mirrorless cameras set to 1:1 can be fun, especially shooting RAW so that the full-frame is available if you change your mind later.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[spacecadet]

In 2008 David K cropped one of my old 4:3 digipix to square for a Photokina report on...........Hasselblad. Worked a treat.

[Marianne]

I remember the first time I set one of my mirrorless cameras to square because I was shooting for calendars and was happily surprised to discover that my RAW files had the full uncropped image. It's a nice feature. 

[Inchiquin]

8 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

 

 

 I'd be more content if I could understand Scouse. 

 

 

Don't worry - nobody can.

 

Alan

 

[Inchiquin]

Both the vertical and the horizontal of this shot have sold separately. They were taken at the same time but from a very slightly different angle. The horizontal (which I prefer) sold for high $$, whereas the vertical sold for $$$$.

 

A very good advert for taking both.

 

 

Alan

 

Edit: PS I should add that cropping the horizontal would not have resulted in such a pleasing composition as the vertical, and it's unlikely that I would have thought to take a wider horizontal than the one I shot. So I would probably have missed out on a bumper sale.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Inchiquin

[Phil Robinson]

I shoot a lot of verticals and a quick look over recent sales suggest they make up about 40% of sales. 
I always use a camera with a battery pack on the bottom - not for the extra battery but for the vertical shutter release and controls. It really makes taking verticals easier and once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.

[John Mitchell]

9 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

.  I'd be more content if I could understand Scouse. 

 

Once you've mastered Scouse, you can start on Newfoundlandese. 😎

[Ed Rooney]

I'm a vertical. But it's late, so I'm about to become a horizontal. 😴

[Betty LaRue]

13 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

Bill Brooks posted, "I always shoot a vertical and a horizontal of the same shot whenever possible." I see "whenever possible" as the key part of that statement. Often, one of the compositions is forced. 

 

Betty, I've liked all the places I've passed through in the last two years — Brooklyn, San Miguel de Allende, Montreal, Lisbon, Seville, Galway, Sligo, and now Liverpool. Healthcare and legal residency have been the important issues. It's about to be winter in all parts of the Northern Hemisphere. Winter in Montreal is harsh; summer is Seville is also harsh. It rains a lot here in Liverpool but the climate is mild, never really cold or hot.  I'd be more content if I could understand Scouse. 

I don’t do accents well. At all. And from what I gather, Scouse is close to a language of its own. I’d probably be more lost than you.

[DDoug]

21 hours ago, Phil Robinson said:

I shoot a lot of verticals and a quick look over recent sales suggest they make up about 40% of sales. 
I always use a camera with a battery pack on the bottom - not for the extra battery but for the vertical shutter release and controls. It really makes taking verticals easier and once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.

Ditto the verticals, a holdover from when clients used to say "shoot more verticals" along with reminding me to have more shots with people in them. I don't carry the vertical battery grip much because of weight, but do like the vertical controls on occasion.

On the other subject, I figure I'll finally start to become a European when I come to understand why a country the size of Sacramento County needs its own language. Till then I'll stick to the opinion that Lëtzebuergesch is more of a secret code than a language, something the Luxemburgers speak among themselves when they don't want to be understood by outsiders.

[M.Chapman]

On 29/10/2020 at 17:22, Harry Harrison said:

I think you know the answer but pretty sure the answer's going to be 'no', the cost of making a square sensor would be prohibitive given that it would need to be square on the 'long' side to make any sense, so 36mm x 36mm for full frame DSLR equivalents. You could argue that an APS-C option of 24mm x 24mm might also work, it would certainly give the quality that would fulfil most stock requirements but to make any sense at all the entire camera would need to be designed around not needing to turn the camera on its side, so a Rolleiflex style camera perhaps.

 

There's some logic to using a square sensor as the field of view of a lens is circular and the largest "rectangular" area that can be fitted into a circle, is a square.  So a square sensor would get the most out of the lens. I suggest the "full frame" version wouldn't be 36mm x 36mm (which would go outside the edge existing full frame lens's FOV), Instead it would have the same diagonal as 36mm x 24mm format, which is 30.5mm x 30.5mm.  The 30.5 x 30.5mm sensor would need about 8% more silicon/sensor than the 24 x 36 mm so the main cost driver wouldn't be the lower chips/wafer but would be the popularity ( = volume of manufacture) of cameras containing a square sensor. It might be popular in the Pro sector as all the camera's controls would remain in the same location whether shooting landscape or portrait so there would be no need for extra shutter release buttons and bulk on battery grips etc.

 

Mark (just musing)

Edited October 30, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

It might be popular in the Pro sector

Yes, just musing as you say, and there is certainly logic to your 30.5 x 30.5 format, but I don't think that those 'Pro' buyers will want to pay a premium price for potentially a smaller 30.5 x 20.3 frame in the 3:2 crop. I think it would need a breakthrough in the technology for making larger sensors for it to be viable but a compact, easy to hold, interchangeable lens, square format digital camera with a large screen on the top, like a Hasselblad, and a standard EVF viewfinder on the back , would be a delight to use I would have thought. Unlike a reflex film camera in the Hasselblad/Rolleiflex mould the viewing image on the top screen could be laterally corrected which would certainly make following a moving subject easier.

[Harry Harrison]

...actually even though we're just musing, any 36 x 36 or 30.5 x 30.5 format camera would miss out on the major Unique Selling Point of 6 x 6 cms film cameras - the shallow depth of field. No, I've changed my mind, I won't be saving up for one., I'll just spend the money on film instead!

Edited October 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[Phil Robinson]

17 hours ago, DDoug said:

Ditto the verticals, a holdover from when clients used to say "shoot more verticals" along with reminding me to have more shots with people in them. I don't carry the vertical battery grip much because of weight, but do like the vertical controls on occasion.

On the other subject, I figure I'll finally start to become a European when I come to understand why a country the size of Sacramento County needs its own language. Till then I'll stick to the opinion that Lëtzebuergesch is more of a secret code than a language, something the Luxemburgers speak among themselves when they don't want to be understood by outsiders.

See also Schweizerdeutsch, and Welsh