Richard Gray

Contributors playing the Live News system?

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I've been wondering this for a while, but just checking the Live News photos now, aren't some contributors playing the system a bit by submitting single photos from the same event in independent submissions, knowing that each photo will get its own feature on Live News? This obviously clutters up the feed so other sets of photos perhaps get overlooked.

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I've followed my own LN subs and images do sometimes come in individually or in small groups, then consolidate together after a few minutes. I don't know if this is automatic, or if sometimes the editors have to lend a hand. Maybe this could account for some of what you're seeing.

Of course if it is deliberate, by spreading them out you'd risk delaying your sub when minutes count.

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27 minutes ago, Richard Gray said:

I've been wondering this for a while, but just checking the Live News photos now, aren't some contributors playing the system a bit by submitting single photos from the same event in independent submissions, knowing that each photo will get its own feature on Live News? This obviously clutters up the feed so other sets of photos perhaps get overlooked.

I suspect it’s more a case of errors not making the headline exactly the same for each photo - easily done. What I have seen is that the news team group them together.

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Posted (edited)

People often upload as they go for news events, and the LiveNews desk consolidate them as and when.

As far as I know, the LiveNews team isn't 24/7, so sometimes these can stockpile before someone is able to bundle them together.

Edited by TeeCee
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I always send in a first image as and when it's checked and ready to upload. I follow this with subsequent images as they are ready in maybe twos or threes. The reasons for this are twofold, One- the first image is a placeholder which if it's the first of that news item uploaded, could be the difference between a sale or not and, Two- it gets the images up as quickly as I can without waiting until the whole batch is ready. Speed is the essence apparently. :)

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I upload as the event unfolds, sometimes one, three, etc.  As others have said in this thread, the news team groups all the images together from the same event after a few images from the same event have been uploaded.

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6 hours ago, Richard Gray said:

I've been wondering this for a while, but just checking the Live News photos now, aren't some contributors playing the system a bit by submitting single photos from the same event in independent submissions, knowing that each photo will get its own feature on Live News? This obviously clutters up the feed so other sets of photos perhaps get overlooked.

 

 

I uploaded two separate Live News submissions yesterday from the same event.Different uploads, different headlines.  The first batch was a celebrity who is running for governor. The second batch was the event itself. I post-processed the celebrity photos first because I thought there might be more interest. I wouldn't call this "playing the system." I was just trying to make it easier for anyone looking for one aspect or another.

 

I did notice two stray images with, apparently, no headline and no captions. I presume this was a mistake on the photographer's part and they seem to have been removed today.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, as others have said, Live News tends to be uploaded as and when images are available. To hold them back and submit in a single submission could be the difference in missing a sale as you could miss a publisher's deadline or another photographer, possibly at a different agency, gets an image in quicker.

 

The Live News team do aggregate the submissions, especially if you keep the headline (and even caption - although I guess caption could change depending on what (and who) is in the pictures.) the same. 

Edited by Matt Ashmore
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On 5/7/2018 at 00:32, fotoDogue said:

 

 

I uploaded two separate Live News submissions yesterday from the same event.Different uploads, different headlines.  The first batch was a celebrity who is running for governor. The second batch was the event itself. I post-processed the celebrity photos first because I thought there might be more interest. I wouldn't call this "playing the system." I was just trying to make it easier for anyone looking for one aspect or another.

 

I did notice two stray images with, apparently, no headline and no captions. I presume this was a mistake on the photographer's part and they seem to have been removed today.

If they are two different angles, then that's fine, they deserve two different headlines. I do the same when I'm covering music events with two bands: I post two sets for the two different bands. That's different to my question. I noticed it last week with multiple single-issue "weather" shots. And these are not that time sensitive. Yes, I've been seeing stray images lately too, which again clutters up the system and makes it more difficult for customers to see good news images.

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4 minutes ago, Richard Gray said:

I noticed it last week with multiple single-issue "weather" shots. And these are not that time sensitive.

 

They are if another contributor sends a "weather" shot on the same day.. and their shot makes it to the news desk at the Sun (for example) before yours and the next run of the newspaper goes to the presses in half an hour.

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21 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

Yes, as others have said, Live News tends to be uploaded as and when images are available. To hold them back and submit in a single submission could be the difference in missing a sale as you could miss a publisher's deadline or another photographer, possibly at a different agency, gets an image in quicker.

 

The Live News team do aggregate the submissions, especially if you keep the headline (and even caption - although I guess caption could change depending on what (and who) is in the pictures.) the same. 

Even accepting that getting one image in early might improve your chances very fractionally, isn't this at the cost to customers not interested in that particular story and to fellow photographers because it clutters up the news feed and makes it more difficult to find other images. In other words, it's probably not good for Alamy (which is why they aggregate them later), which in the end is not good for everyone submitting to Alamy. 

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1 minute ago, Richard Gray said:

Even accepting that getting one image in early might improve your chances very fractionally, isn't this at the cost to customers not interested in that particular story and to fellow photographers because it clutters up the news feed and makes it more difficult to find other images. In other words, it's probably not good for Alamy (which is why they aggregate them later), which in the end is not good for everyone submitting to Alamy. 

 

This is how the News Desk earn their living.. monitoring and updating these things. Besides, I believe (although others know better) that the news team send images directly to news desks that they believe the publications would be interested in and so the "tidiness"of the actual news feed could be less relevant.

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9 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

They are if another contributor sends a "weather" shot on the same day.. and their shot makes it to the news desk at the Sun (for example) before yours and the next run of the newspaper goes to the presses in half an hour.

That's a bit of a theoretical situation. Another theoretical situation might be where the second image that you delay submitting because you wanted to send in your first image quickly is the one that the Sun editor would have chosen before the deadline, but didn't because he didn't see it in time. Lots of ifs, buts and maybes. My main point is the clutter it creates, which is not good for Alamy and so not good for everyone else.

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Guilty as charged here, I rarely upload live news, but speed is of the essence and I will process the best shot first and then upload it, followed by a few others if I deem them worthy. I generally shoot raw and it takes a few minutes to process a shot, probably not the best workflow for live news, but the habit of a (digital) lifetime.

 

What I have noticed is that some folk upload umpteen similars, but that's their lookout, can't do their CTR any good, but not hurting anyone else. Maybe they cull the excess after the event?

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40 minutes ago, Bryan said:

What I have noticed is that some folk upload umpteen similars, but that's their lookout, can't do their CTR any good, but not hurting anyone else. Maybe they cull the excess after the event?

 

Live News images were going straight on sale as stock once too old to be current news... but that functionality seems to have been reversed now if what I'm seeing is consistent. So at this point yes, I do cull images. Or more often, re-edit and upload netter versions of the same images for stock and delete the originally uploaded version.

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This issue has got me thinking.  Most of my work is live news.  Normally I select and edit a small group of images and upload them.  Yesterday I covered the Story about the lady who had compensation and an apology from the PM for rendition In hindsight I would have been better submitting one or two images quickly followed by the rest a few minutes later.  I will give that a try next time.  

My other “problem” with live news related to speed of turnaround is often when I later review my images I realise I could have selected better images.  But I guess that will come with experience...

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Timing seems to be key.  I uploaded only 4 news photos on Sunday during the heatwave.  Two of them found their way into a newspaper the next day.  I must have got the timing just right since there must have been loads of weather photos that day.

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From my experience even if you submit your live news pix in different batches, they will be merged... as I use the same caption for all images of the same event.

 

I usually send a few images as soon as they have been processed in LR and then sometimes add a few, if I feel they add to the story. As said a few minutes later they are merged with the first submission.

 

This is imho the way it should be as I don’t believe having several batches will benefit myself or Alamy...

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11 minutes ago, Michael_Jacobs said:

From my experience even if you submit your live news pix in different batches, they will be merged... as I use the same caption for all images of the same event.

 

I usually send a few images as soon as they have been processed in LR and then sometimes add a few, if I feel they add to the story. As said a few minutes later they are merged with the first submission.

 

This is imho the way it should be as I don’t believe having several batches will benefit myself or Alamy...

 

 

In the past when I sent a couple of different stories with different headlines in the same batch they would be separated out. More recently (today and last week) they are just getting lumped together on the live news page.

 

To be honest, I have the feeling that the vast majority of people looking at the live news page are contributors checking to see if their images have got through OK, so I am not going to loose any sleep over it either way.

 

As for gaming the system. I think more often than not it is a genuine mistake or other circumstances are at play. I know I have found myself in the middle of the stadium holding my laptop high above my head sending images one by one because the connection was so dodgy. One premier league club once had such a bad connection that you would see photographers hanging around outside one of the houses opposite the stadium because the owner of the house had neglected to put a code word on his household wifi.

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On 06/05/2018 at 20:24, Sultanpepa said:

I always send in a first image as and when it's checked and ready to upload. I follow this with subsequent images as they are ready in maybe twos or threes. The reasons for this are twofold, One- the first image is a placeholder which if it's the first of that news item uploaded, could be the difference between a sale or not and, Two- it gets the images up as quickly as I can without waiting until the whole batch is ready. Speed is the essence apparently. :)

I’m not sure about the ‘place holding’ thing. I’ve had to cope with some very slow upload speeds recently, which means that the first few photos start showing on the Live News system before the upload is finished. Once it has finished, the whole lot moves to the time of the last one uploaded. So, uploading one and then adding others won’t keep you in the same place. I suppose an early image might be sent out by the News team, but then presumably they have to send the rest separately if others come in later. 

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On 5/12/2018 at 17:00, funkyworm said:

 

 

In the past when I sent a couple of different stories with different headlines in the same batch they would be separated out. More recently (today and last week) they are just getting lumped together on the live news page.

 

To be honest, I have the feeling that the vast majority of people looking at the live news page are contributors checking to see if their images have got through OK, so I am not going to loose any sleep over it either way.

 

As for gaming the system. I think more often than not it is a genuine mistake or other circumstances are at play. I know I have found myself in the middle of the stadium holding my laptop high above my head sending images one by one because the connection was so dodgy. One premier league club once had such a bad connection that you would see photographers hanging around outside one of the houses opposite the stadium because the owner of the house had neglected to put a code word on his household wifi.

 A few places recently seem to have put some form of ftp blockers in place. No idea how that works on a technical level, but I wasn't the only one experiencing it, in two different venues. Strange as it may be, when once would assume that fast ftp'ing out of images would actually benefit the organisers. There have also been tales of photogaphers using signal blockers to prevent others from filing. To say it in the words of that orange man across the pond - SAD! B)

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