Marb Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, geogphotos said: This is ridiculous. It is simply a statement of fact that the micro business model is based on low prices. That is absolutely bound to have an effect on Alamy prices. How can you argue otherwise unless you really do not want to face reality? Well today on one of the large microstock sites I sold a single image for $21 (as well as other sales today to make it over $30) At Alamy I made £13 for a single blue moon sale. How can you say microstock is driving prices down here ? It's ridiculous. If Alamy still kept their prices high I would certainly be putting all my eggs in this basket but the reality is I sell more images, and some for HIGHER prices than here. If you can't understand where I am coming from you obviously have a rose tinted view of Alamy. Sorry but I need to earn as much as I can and Alamy simply doesn't live up to the hype and pay as an exclusive seller for me. I would love nothing more than to sell my images for a price I think they are worth, believe me. I have no idea what people are on about regarding red arrows. Are we talking display aircraft ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, wiskerke said: Btw what is the correct opposite of hear hear? wim An indecipherable murmur of discontent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southmind Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Will the red arrow be stronger than the green one ? We'll know it at the next episode of the slow month's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, geogphotos said: I am looking forward to one of the micro fans explaining how a business that started on the basis of selling images at $1 each can have any other impact except to reduce prices over the whole global stock photo industry. It seems to me that some people just don't want to face facts and continue to blame Alamy for their failure to make sales. They will simply not accept any cricticsm of micro stock yet switch to Alamy and then moan away..... Go back to micro stock if it is so wonderful. That's me done And yet (as I have said a few times) some individual micro sales can make me more than all mine bar one at Alamy. How can that be blamed for driving prices down here ? microstock didn't put a gun to Alamy's head and make them drop prices, they did it themselves. I am not a microstock "fan", just having to decide which is making me more money as I would LOVE to sell my images here for good money, but the reality (as it stands) is they don't. It seems there is a clique of folk here who will criticise whatever I say or do but there are some at least who do not have a one eyed view of Alamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Marb said: microstock didn't put a gun to Alamy's head and make them drop prices, Yes it did- ever heard of price competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Yes it did- ever heard of price competition? The large amount I get for a single sale at a micro, considerably more than here should be causing Alamy to put their prices up, not down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 What is your average sale at MS? Mine is $47 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Quote What is your average sale at MS? $0.89 It's a different business model based on high volume though. Apples and pears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I was actually asking Marb about his as he'd said he made as much from MS as from here, but he seems reticent. Interesting. Apples and pears? They're still images into which a certain amount of work goes. BTW what is the commission rate on that 89c? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I go by combined sales on microstock per month which averages between $100-200. Again, a single sale today bagged me £22.51. My only 2 sales here in 3 months made $ 11.78 and $12.85. Today I made $32.05 at a microstock site (not including other sites) How much more convincing do you need ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Marb said: How much more convincing do you need ? Being told your average gross sale, commission rate, annual RPI and acceptance rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 The magic works! Three more popped up today, including one for $190. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, wiskerke said: Btw what is the correct opposite of hear hear? wim 2 hours ago, spacecadet said: An indecipherable murmur of discontent. Shame! Shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andremichel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Brasilnut said: $0.89 It's a different business model based on high volume though. Apples and pears. Is that net or gross? At least one ms site pays just 15% commission for non exclusive images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, andremichel said: Is that net or gross? At least one ms site pays just 15% commission for non exclusive images. One of the things I was trying to elicit, but only tumbleweed at the moment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Quote BTW what is the commission rate on that 89c? Not ignoring you guys was out doing something. This amount is net. I mean it's apples and pears because in my case, with a 4,500 portfolio on a MS will license 400-500 images on an average month. On here, with a similar amount of images (many non-duplicates), I'd be lucky to license 10. That's fine though. One is volume-based and another can be upwards of $150+. On the extreme bell curves of each one can receive $100 royalties for one image (enhanced license) and on Alamy a pitifiul $1. This whole micros vs mid is a bit silly. Gonna get reds (hope so!) for this but it appears that the industry is moving towards a RF micro model with exception of a few very niche and curated agencies. My prediction for 2018, Alamy to roll out subs. The client is king, for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Brasilnut said: My prediction for 2018, Alamy to roll out subs. Nuclear-powered or conventional? Be careful what you say, this thread has mojo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Brasilnut said: Not ignoring you guys was out doing something. This amount is net. I mean it's apples and pears because in my case, with a 4,500 portfolio on a MS will license 400-500 images on an average month. On here, with a similar amount of images (many non-duplicates), I'd be lucky to license 10. That's fine though. One is volume-based and another can be upwards of $150+. On the extreme bell curves of each one can receive $100 royalties for one image (enhanced license) and on Alamy a pitifiul $1. This whole micros vs mid is a bit silly. Gonna get reds (hope so!) for this but it appears that the industry is moving towards a RF micro model with exception of a few very niche and curated agencies. My prediction for 2018, Alamy to roll out subs. The client is king, for better or worse. Please answer me this cause I don't understand, why would anyone buy an image of mine x 100 in micro? An image of mine licensed for $1400 this year, can MS match that? If no-one sells their images on MS would the customer not have to buy that same image at Alamy and therefore photographer would be king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andremichel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Brasilnut said: I mean it's apples and pears because in my case, with a 4,500 portfolio on a MS will license 400-500 images on an average month. On here, with a similar amount of images (many non-duplicates), I'd be lucky to license 10. I wonder if that 400-500 image sales are spread across 4 or 5 micro sites not just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Quote Please answer me this cause I don't understand, why would anyone buy an image of mine x 100 in micro? An image of mine licensed for $1400 this year, can MS match that? If no-one sells their images on MS would the customer not have to buy that same image at Alamy and therefore photographer would be king? 100 different buyers. There's no RM so no renewals needed from same client since licenses don't expire. Nope they can't possibly match $1400 as a one-off but perhaps over a year it may add up to that amount depending on its commercial value. The largest Micro download I've ever heard of was $120. Mine was $88. Very rare though, as stated before the average is just under $1. I'm not sure whether in the absence of choice the less expensive option the customer would be forced to pay higher for the right to buy on Alamy. Many clients on Alamy appear to be UK-based corporate editorial based and on Micros it's more of non-European small to medium designers/marketing firms, casual blogger types and smaller editorial outlets. Therefore, I don't think there's that much cross-over - perhaps someone can shed some more light on the "average Alamy client". My guess is that If no-one sells their image on MS, I believe the lowly bloggers / designers / travel agencies would likely not search on Alamy. If they're not European, they've probably never even heard of Alamy. Quote I wonder if that 400-500 image sales are spread across 4 or 5 micro sites not just one. Yes, multiple but I choose only top-tier micro sites (for some that sounds like a oxymoron lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Brasilnut said: 100 different buyers. There's no RM so no renewals needed from same client since licenses don't expire. Nope they can't possibly match $1400 as a one-off but perhaps over a year it may add up to that amount depending on its commercial value. The largest Micro download I've ever heard of was $120. Mine was $88. Very rare though, as stated before the average is just under $1. I'm not sure whether in the absence of choice the less expensive option the customer would be forced to pay higher for the right to buy on Alamy. Many clients on Alamy appear to be UK-based corporate editorial based and on Micros it's more of non-European small to medium designers/marketing firms, casual blogger types and smaller editorial outlets. Therefore, I don't think there's that much cross-over - perhaps someone can shed some more light on the "average Alamy client". My guess is that If no-one sells their image on MS, I believe the lowly bloggers / designers / travel agencies would likely not search on Alamy. If they're not European, they've probably never even heard of Alamy. Yes, multiple but I choose only top-tier micro sites (for some that sounds like a oxymoron lol) Thank you for your answer. So by selling to micro your image becomes less and less saleable whereas my RM image can be sold over and over for presumably better returns? I've no doubt some togs images are more suited to MS and can make good returns but I don't think Alamy's images are under threat by that genre because as you say we are supplying different customers and customer needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Quote Thank you for your answer. So by selling to micro your image becomes less and less saleable whereas my RM image can be sold over and over for presumably better returns? I've no doubt some togs images are more suited to MS and can make good returns but I don't think Alamy's images are under threat by that genre because as you say we are supplying different customers and customer needs. I don't have all the answers, I'm just going by with my strategy which may or may not work for everyone! What I consider to be "premium" images don't go on micros since they would be devalued. As you've stated, it's best to have them as RM for better returns and ideally multiple license renewals. More generic images lend themselves for multiple downloads for low prices on MS. One example from your port would be HWK1XG, imo. I agree that Alamy will be fine as they possess a loyal client-base (I believe), but I wonder if decision-makers are contemplating grabbing some of MS's lucrative clients by offering subs. Lots of money to be made with such clients. That way they can grab some market-share from MS. Interesting times ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Quote Would they want a property release for that image? I wouldn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilnut Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Quote But if it had the brand name beside it, it would? But then you'd airbrush it out, correct? Yes and also keywords need to be more generic as you're trying to appeal to a large audience, not just in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Brasilnut said: Yes and also keywords need to be more generic as you're trying to appeal to a large audience, not just in Scotland. The inclusion of "Scotland" widens the search base. It doesn't reduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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