CarloBo Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I received this today from Alamy: Dear Carlo, We’ve received an email from the artist in your image XXXXX that was submitted by you to Alamy. He said that he did not give any permission to take and publish this picture. He has asked us to delete this image. Before taking a photo of someone you are required by French law to ask the individual’s permission. If you want to publish it in any way you have to ask their permission for each specific usage. Any object that is created by or is the copyright of an artist, or designer must have permissions to be published in specific contexts.Would you like us to delete this or would you like us to speak to the artist directly to resolve this? Please let us know as soon as you can. ************* It's a photo of a man painting some graffiti during a public performance. According to this: http://ambafrance-us.org/spip.php?article640 I should probably delete all photos I've taken in France. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpics Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 What was the graffiti artist's name? I had an email from someone asking the same but as he posed for it, I just ignored it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I'm not a lawyer so if it was mine I'd delete and move on, disappointing as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If it applies at all, it only applies in France, so if you apply a territorial restriction Alamy should allow it. As to its being in public or not, Alamy isn't going to get into that argument although you can try pointing it out. Quite worrying though, if Alamy is entertaining the possibility of being sued in France. How could the artist have found the image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If it applies at all, it only applies in France, so if you apply a territorial restriction Alamy should allow it. Quite worrying though, if Alamy is entertaining the possibility of being sued in France. How could the artist have found the image? surely it wouldn't only apply in France as French law states you must ask a persons permission to actually take the photo in the first place, a territorial restriction will not get around this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Er, French law only applies to France. Publishing the image can only be an offence in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Er, French law only applies to France. Publishing the image can only be an offence in France. true but would it make a difference if you are French and therefore should not have taken the image in the first place, therefore it doesn't matter what restrictions you place on it?! Curious as there is a similar law in Germany although not quite so strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I was assuming that the OP is not a French resident. If the picture was taken in a public place then it doesn't apply anyway, but Alamy may not want to deal with that. However MS is obviously aware of the privacy law, so they may listen to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Baker Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I would agree with previous posters. The artist can't insist the file be deleted on a UK-based server. Simply put on a non-France restriction. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 As usual Alamy is taking a (very) precautionary stance to protect itself. But apparently the complaint is about someone's likeness, not their IP, so the scope must be quite limited, one imagines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MircoV Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I really can not inmagine that tourists walking in France can not make a photo of anything just because a person is standing there. The Police could then directly forbid having a camera on the streets. Every tourist has a camera and on every camera are photos including people. Not to avoid. So i am standing in front of a statue but a person is sitting in front of it eating a sandwich. I need first to ask the person to take the photo of the statue? Even just for private use? I can not believe it. And therefore i think just restrict France. No weapons, no alcohol and no cameras in the streets soon. Mirco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I really can not inmagine that tourists walking in France can not make a photo of anything just because a person is standing there. The Police could then directly forbid having a camera on the streets. Every tourist has a camera and on every camera are photos including people. Not to avoid. So i am standing in front of a statue but a person is sitting in front of it eating a sandwich. I need first to ask the person to take the photo of the statue? Even just for private use? I can not believe it. And therefore i think just restrict France. No weapons, no alcohol and no cameras in the streets soon. Mirco It doesn't apply to public places. This is the OP's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MircoV Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I really can not inmagine that tourists walking in France can not make a photo of anything just because a person is standing there. The Police could then directly forbid having a camera on the streets. Every tourist has a camera and on every camera are photos including people. Not to avoid. So i am standing in front of a statue but a person is sitting in front of it eating a sandwich. I need first to ask the person to take the photo of the statue? Even just for private use? I can not believe it. And therefore i think just restrict France. No weapons, no alcohol and no cameras in the streets soon. Mirco It doesn't apply to public places. This is the OP's point. Ok. I was not sure if the OP situation was public. Thanks. Mirco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The OP says it was, Alamy don't know that. presumably he will let them know, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I really can not inmagine that tourists walking in France can not make a photo of anything just because a person is standing there. The Police could then directly forbid having a camera on the streets. Every tourist has a camera and on every camera are photos including people. Not to avoid. So i am standing in front of a statue but a person is sitting in front of it eating a sandwich. I need first to ask the person to take the photo of the statue? Even just for private use? I can not believe it. And therefore i think just restrict France. No weapons, no alcohol and no cameras in the streets soon. Mirco It doesn't apply to public places. This is the OP's point. Article 9 of the civil code "It should be borne in mind that the protection of privacy afforded by article 9 of the Civil Code is quite wide, since it operates both in a public and in a private place, unlike certain provisions of criminal law." from linked article. There is also the various judgements under ECHR for privacy in public. privacy in publication, not in simply taking a picture. The OP is offering images for publication. Most won't object but France does have serious privacy laws and also much tougher labour laws covering 'hire' of models in images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nir Alon Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think it would be very beneficial if Alamy formally joined this thread for clarification on French law and Alamy policy in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I stand corrected. So there's still a potential civil , not criminal, liability. It hinges on what is portrayed being a reflection of a person's private, as opposed to their public life. I wouldn't imagine this could apply in this case- the artist is performing in public, something they are accustomed to doing, not collecting his children from school or doing his shopping. But Alamy probably isn't going to get into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 "The right of your own image (Droit d’image) In France each individual has the exclusive right to their image and of who uses their image. Not only publishing the image but even taking the photo of someone, the photographer has to have the individuals permission under French Law. The fact that the person accepts to be photographed doesn’t mean that they accept to have their image published. A minor aged between 12 to 14 years old can be considered responsible enough to decide whether he/she gives the right to use his image. Circumstances where the public right of information might be stronger than the individual’s right of one’s image When someone places himself or herself is in a public place then there is already a measure of tacit consent already presumed but this is reflected in each individual case. Normally the person only has a right of complaint if he/she is a principal subject in the photo. If someone is in a photo but not an essential element – or when the person is not recognizable – or is an accessory by chance – say in an image of a public monument, or statue, then it is generally considered that consent is not necessary, even though people have taken photographers or publishers to court over this. The same goes when the person is part of a crowd. But again each case is taken on its own merits, as to what is considered a crowd or an accessory or not. But in all circumstances the persons dignity must be respected. quote from https://photothisandthat.co.uk/2012/02/15/the-french-privacy-law/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Walker Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I'm guessing the artist is not registering his earnings to whatever the French tax authority is. Hence not wanting an image of him/her at work published. Just a thought ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 A lot of my skiing photos were taken in France, mainly featuring my own family members. So NO, Alamy should not delete all photos taken in France. Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBo Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 Thanks for your replies, i've used a precautionary and time saving approach and told Alamy they can remove the photo. But I'm disappointed it's not the first time Alamy deletes some photos of mine due to potential copyright problems, last time it was a Moulin Rouge photo. Now they have 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBo Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 What was the graffiti artist's name? I had an email from someone asking the same but as he posed for it, I just ignored it. I have no idea, pretty much unknown I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 It's a shame you've given in so easily, because no liability could ever attach to you, and the French courts are unlikely to come after you outside France. I suppose we all have a collective responsibility to stick up for our livelihoods- q.v Network Rail. Did you not tell Alamy it was in a public place? One thought is that any image can be resubmitted. I still wonder how he found himself, unless he regularly trawls the Internet for images of places he has performed. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBo Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 It's a shame you've given in so easily, because no liability could ever attach to you, and the French courts are unlikely to come after you outside France. I suppose we all have a collective responsibility to stick up for our livelihoods- q.v Network Rail. Did you not tell Alamy it was in a public place? One thought is that any image can be resubmitted. I still wonder how he found himself, unless he regularly trawls the Internet for images of places he has performed. Sad. "In the absence of a precise legal definition of "private life" the notion has been spelled out by the courts, which have held that a person’s private life includes his or her love life, friendships, family circumstances, leisure activities.." and "It should be borne in mind that the protection of privacy afforded by article 9 of the Civil Code is quite wide, since it operates both in a public and in a private place, unlike certain provisions of criminal law." Alamy is not able to give any legal adivce, they know it's a public place. Do I have time to read the French law code and understand its possible even remote implications? Nope, it's not worth my time for one photo only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydingo Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Alamy did offer to speak to the artist directly to resolve the situation . . . I would certainly have let them do that before deciding on any further action. dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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