New generation

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

On 01/05/2023 at 07:04, Allan Bell said:

More money can be had from teaching...

Allan My Main Man,

 

this is a thought I've had but never acted on:

offer ?bored? children of The Wealthy a

few hours stock shooting local itinerary
at say $200-500* per hour with promise

of getting their work published in future.
Child or teen has option of learning to

process their images, submitting to
Alamy (& others via me**)

**have to clear permission from others

*$200-500/hr is meaningless to The Rich

I'll probably never pursue this but does

anyone know of such schemes...?

if child remains interested, it could expand

to travel itinerary, expenses covered + fees

when Wealthy Family goes on holiday...

Edited May 7, 2023 by Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg

[geogphotos]

30 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

Allan My Main Man,

 

this is a thought I've had but never acted on:

offer ?bored? children of The Wealthy a

few hours stock shooting local itinerary
at say $200-500* per hour with promise

of getting their work published in future.
Child or teen has option of learning to

process their images, submitting to
Alamy (& others via me**)

**have to clear permission from others

*$200-500/hr is meaningless to The Rich

I'll probably never pursue this but does

anyone know of such schemes...?

if child remains interested, it could expand

to travel itinerary, expenses covered + fees

when Wealthy Family goes on holiday...

 

 

Sounds to me like a recipe for bankruptcy once bored children get bored of you and complain to rich parents that they have been cheated, taken advantage of, abused, badly treated, poorly taught, never had proof of promised publications, been led a lie by bad man who knew better all along and was only interestd in their money.

 

The above will be used as evidence of your real intention 😀

Edited May 7, 2023 by geogphotos

[Rebecca Ore]

47 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Sounds to me like a recipe for bankruptcy once bored children get bored of you and complain to rich parents that they have been cheated, taken advantage of, abused, badly treated, poorly taught, never had proof of promised publications, been led a lie by bad man who knew better all along and was only interestd in their money.

 

The above will be used as evidence of your real intention 😀

 

Cornell University's MFA in poetry is one of the better MFA programs in the US.  90 to 95% of the graduates stop writing poetry a year after graduation.  I'm not sure what Yale's success rate is for poetry, but for fine arts, about a third of their graduates get NYC gallery representation.  I knew of someone in the movie industry who did one script (don't know if it made it to principle photography or not) and started giving weekend script writing seminars to 200 or so people a weekend at $500 each.   I figured he made more money from that hustle than he could have made from having a script actually produced. 

 

The people who are workshop perpetual attendees are often most interested in attention from the more famous.  A friend said a number of them wouldn't write anything new, just see what various famous writers said about one poem that had shown promise in the early 1960s.  I've been the senior project reader for a would-be fantasy novelist who was a promising journalist.   She'd had all sorts of writing workshops that never taught her basics for writing fiction.  It's a racket.  She did get a job as a technical writer for that university.

 

  One guy ran into his former UNC MFA instructor and she asked about his writing.  "Not doing any."  "But if you're still reading, the course was worth it."  Teachers who use their former students as an audience are legion. 

 

I tell anyone who wants to be a writer to get any kind of job writing -- tech writing, copy writing, ads, reporting -- and go from there.   UPenn didn't have an MFA program and had, at one point, good advice about not going for an MFA without getting published first.  No longer up, just too honest. 

 

For a lot of people, these classes are a way of acquire names to drop or a way to justify spending all one's time on an art for two years.   From what I heard, UNC Charlotte theater majors who specialized in tech (lighting, sound, set work, costume construction) got jobs far more than the kiddies who specialized in acting or script writing. 

 

If you want the adoration of wannbes studying to get money from their parents to live as an artist for two years, fine.   It does work, and some profs find it can get them laid..   I just didn't want to be in that world, so ran off to the DC area to do tech editing, then took an early retirement.

 

 

[Steve F]

I've been practicing New Generation on my guitar recently 😆

 

 

[Allan Bell]

17 hours ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

Allan My Main Man,

 

this is a thought I've had but never acted on:

offer ?bored? children of The Wealthy a

few hours stock shooting local itinerary
at say $200-500* per hour with promise

of getting their work published in future.
Child or teen has option of learning to

process their images, submitting to
Alamy (& others via me**)

**have to clear permission from others

*$200-500/hr is meaningless to The Rich

I'll probably never pursue this but does

anyone know of such schemes...?

if child remains interested, it could expand

to travel itinerary, expenses covered + fees

when Wealthy Family goes on holiday...

 

Hi Jeff Just to let you know I did NOT give you the red arrow. Have a green one to cancel it out.

 

Allan

 

Whoever gave you the red arrow will give me one now.

 

ITMA

 

OH! And thank you for making me your Main Man.

 

IHA (It's Him Again)

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Allan Bell

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

On 07/05/2023 at 17:25, geogphotos said:

 

 

Sounds to me like a recipe for bankruptcy once bored children get bored of you and complain to rich parents that they have been cheated, taken advantage of, abused, badly treated, poorly taught, never had proof of promised publications, been led a lie by bad man who knew better all along and was only interestd in their money.

your imaginings sounds so sad

are these your tutor-student experiences?

😫___ 😫___ 😫
I think in 'Merica most tutor-student experiences are positive.

I'm just giving it a stock shooting twist & applying it to children of The Rich...

If kid don't like it then it stops after Lesson #1 $200.

For tutor, its a side gig in addition to normal stock shooting, etc.

The promise is to get published, something almost everyone here has achieved.
It is NOT promise of income, The Rich don't care about nor need it...

Edited May 8, 2023 by Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg
good old geogster don't get it

[Johnnie5]

“During a gold rush, sell shovels.” This saying arose following the California gold rush of the mid-19th century when it became clear that few prospectors made money panning for gold while the suppliers who sold them shovels and picks profited nicely.

[Rebecca Ore]

6 hours ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

'm just giving it a stock shooting twist & applying it to children of The Rich...

If kid don't like it then it stops after Lesson #1 $200.

For tutor, its a side gig in addition to normal stock shooting, etc.

The promise is to get published, something almost everyone here has achieved.

 

Whoever gave you a red arrow doesn't understand your sense of humor or is teaching workshops for supplemental income. 

 

I explained US adjunct faculty life to my British friend and she thought there had to be something illegal about it.  Not in the US.

 

A lot of people do love name dropping.  Paying to take lessons from a famous or known in the right circles artist/poet/writer is a thing.   And a lot of publications don't pay but serve as tenure trading stamps.   Almost zero poetry magazines pay much of anything, but publishing in some of them will get you a university creative writing job.  Same photography, I suspect.

[geogphotos]

20 hours ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

your imaginings sounds so sad

are these your tutor-student experiences?

😫___ 😫___ 😫
I think in 'Merica most tutor-student experiences are positive.

I'm just giving it a stock shooting twist & applying it to children of The Rich...

If kid don't like it then it stops after Lesson #1 $200.

For tutor, its a side gig in addition to normal stock shooting, etc.

The promise is to get published, something almost everyone here has achieved.
It is NOT promise of income, The Rich don't care about nor need it...

 

 

You should do this through Tik-Tok channel.

[Betty LaRue]

On 08/05/2023 at 14:47, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

your imaginings sounds so sad

are these your tutor-student experiences?

😫___ 😫___ 😫
I think in 'Merica most tutor-student experiences are positive.

I'm just giving it a stock shooting twist & applying it to children of The Rich...

If kid don't like it then it stops after Lesson #1 $200.

For tutor, its a side gig in addition to normal stock shooting, etc.

The promise is to get published, something almost everyone here has achieved.
It is NOT promise of income, The Rich don't care about nor need it...

When I began painting watercolors, I eventually sold without trying. Sales came from word of mouth. (Okay, the gals I worked with at the doctor’s office asked me to bring my paintings for them to see. A few bought something. The doctor bought some large ones, hung them on the office hallway walls. Patients saw them, more sales & commissions.)

I did later take two classes from different artists. The classes didn’t make my talent better or worse, but I learned a lot about color mixing & what papers to use for the particular painting I wanted to do for best results. Also what brand paints were best, which ones were opaque or translucent. I would have eventually discovered these things on my own, but mistakes might have happened during the learning process. Those revelations made it worth taking the classes, and it was fun to be around like-minded people.

I have never painted to sell or make money. It was and is a creative urge, self-fulfillment. I have a few stacks of paintings tucked away in drawers.

[Inchiquin]

9 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

 

I have never painted to sell or make money. It was and is a creative urge, self-fulfillment.

 

 

Absolutely. And for me, that's all it needs to be. I write music but few people like it. I don't care because I do it for myself, not for them. The urge to create is the only motivation I need.

 

Alan

[geogphotos]

Going back to Jeff's idea.

 

My hunch is that if any of us advertised courses to educate people about stock photography very few people under say 35 would be interested.  Just a hunch. 

[Steve F]

8 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

Going back to Jeff's idea.

 

My hunch is that if any of us advertised courses to educate people about stock photography very few people under say 35 would be interested.  Just a hunch. 

 

Yes I can imagine so if we told them about the returns and amount of effort needed...

[geogphotos]

26 minutes ago, Steve F said:

 

Yes I can imagine so if we told them about the returns and amount of effort needed...

 

 

That has gone through my mind when I have occasionally thought about doing some sort of Intro to Stock talk or course. I wouldn't want to lead people down what is most likely to be a blind alley in terms of making any money form it. 

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

Going back to Jeff's idea.

My hunch is that if any of us advertised courses to educate people about stock photography...

except my scheme is specifically aimed at The Rich who will pay $200+/hr
& wish to be published with little or no concern for income...

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

3 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

I write music...

my long lost musical mate!!

I assume this means melodies.

I also have hundreds of melodies but I am

cursed with wishing to see one or more of

them obtain public recognition...

but my playing skills remain novice for decades...

And I currently have melody + lyrics
a kind of Marriage Proposal Anthem

I want to pay to be recorded in the

style of Baroque Rock a la The Left Banke

but strong female singer like Maureen McGovern

a la The Morning After...
I want results as lyric scroll video for Youtube

& see if it goes viral...

I don't know how to find recording musician-singer...
Help me Inchiquin Help...

[Rebecca Ore]

7 hours ago, geogphotos said:

Going back to Jeff's idea.

 

My hunch is that if any of us advertised courses to educate people about stock photography very few people under say 35 would be interested.  Just a hunch. 

 

Next door neighbor in Philadellphia took a overpriced program on photography (would have been cheaper and better from the local two year community college).  She heard a lot of nonsense about how much she could make from knowing Photoshop.  Worked assisting a couple of photographers in NJ.  They did not pay her $35 an hour.  

 

Doesn't matter the age.  The charisma of the teacher matters (we in the US never use the word "tutors" except one on one help on a temporary basis).

 

Most people pay money to fantasize about being artists, not tech writers, though there is still a romance about journalism, so all the J programs in the US end up producing each year the number equal to the total of actual working journalists in the US, if I'm remembering correctly.   Three tenure track creative writing jobs a year and way more than that by several zeros wanting a TT position.

 

There are some good programs.  And some programs that attract the better students.   A friend suggested that I try teaching creative writing at UPenn which did get students who went on to do things.   The Drexel professor who was trying to get me to teach creative writing there said, "Oh, but that's so elitist."

 

The arts and the technical fields and the sciences just are elitist.  

 

My fears when signing up with Alamy was that this was going to ruin a perfectly nice hobby.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Rebecca Ore
clarification, I hope

[Inchiquin]

6 hours ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

my long lost musical mate!!

I assume this means melodies.

I also have hundreds of melodies but I am

cursed with wishing to see one or more of

them obtain public recognition...

but my playing skills remain novice for decades...

And I currently have melody + lyrics
a kind of Marriage Proposal Anthem

I want to pay to be recorded in the

style of Baroque Rock a la The Left Banke

but strong female singer like Maureen McGovern

a la The Morning After...
I want results as lyric scroll video for Youtube

& see if it goes viral...

I don't know how to find recording musician-singer...
Help me Inchiquin Help...

 

I'm not sure I can help very much Jeff. I don't play an instrument so I have to do it all on the computer, note by note. My singing ability is limited so I need to process it heavily with software to make it (hopefully) palatable. I write the lot - not just melodies but accompaniments, lyrics, whatever. It can take me months to complete just one piece. But I'm just writing in a vacuum. I have no expectation of achieving anything other than personal satisfaction at my creations. I think it's good but it only seems to appeal to a tiny subset of my friends. You can hear everything I've completed here: The Rheingold Trauma

 

Alan

[Betty LaRue]

21 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

 

I'm not sure I can help very much Jeff. I don't play an instrument so I have to do it all on the computer, note by note. My singing ability is limited so I need to process it heavily with software to make it (hopefully) palatable. I write the lot - not just melodies but accompaniments, lyrics, whatever. It can take me months to complete just one piece. But I'm just writing in a vacuum. I have no expectation of achieving anything other than personal satisfaction at my creations. I think it's good but it only seems to appeal to a tiny subset of my friends. You can hear everything I've completed here: The Rheingold Trauma

 

Alan

I listened I like it. You are talented. It’s not my genre of music, but I think it’s good. Nothing wrong with your voice!

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

22 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

...hear everything I've completed here: The Rheingold Trauma

Inchy you Music Meister,

Your "Ballad of Deep Lock" triggered

a memory of "Tuesday Afternoon"

Both are haunting !!

If you ever decide to make a few

bucks recording work of others,

I'll throw $100US your way,

although I guess it would take

more than a couple hours the

way you work...?

My song is simple pop-folk-rock...

[John Mitchell]

I don't have a genre of music, I listen to all kinds, from Gregorian Chants to Jimi Hendrix. I really liked the 'Ballad of Deep Lock' -- it reminds me of some of the old Beatles songs and melodies, but more haunting and complex. Very nice, Alan (with one "el"). 👍

[Jose Decio Molaro]

On 07/05/2023 at 20:12, Steve F said:

Eu tenho praticado New Generation na minha guitarra recentemente  😆

 

 

I'm still with Led Zeppelin ... I don't want to upgrade

[Steve F]

11 hours ago, Jose Decio Molaro said:

I'm still with Led Zeppelin ... I don't want to upgrade

 

I'm a 90s boy, this is what I grew up with... 🙃

Manic Street Preachers, Oasis, Suede, Supergrass, Pulp, The Verve, Stone Roses, Radiohead, Nirvana, Reef, Smashing Pumpkins, Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, REM

[Russell Watkins]

As I approach my 60th year (eff me!) I've developed a new love for electronic music. I grew up with Led Zep, Talking Heads, The Stranglers, and later, Pixies. I really wasn't into electronic music like Kraftwerk or Suicide then although I enjoyed synths in the context of a "guitar band". But now I've revisited it and I put what little talent I have into making music on the computer, including the iPad.

 

I have spent more money on synths, MIDI controllers and software than I have on photographic gear. And Apple have just announced that they're porting their main DAW (digital audio workstation) Logic Pro to the iPad ecosystem which is going to shake things up a bit. Making music on the iPad has been a lot cheaper than on the desktop/laptop because equivalent apps are a fraction of the price.

[MDM]

30 minutes ago, Russell Watkins said:

 

 

I have spent more money on synths, MIDI controllers and software than I have on photographic gear. And Apple have just announced that they're porting their main DAW (digital audio workstation) Logic Pro to the iPad ecosystem which is going to shake things up a bit. Making music on the iPad has been a lot cheaper than on the desktop/laptop because equivalent apps are a fraction of the price.

 

You haven't mentioned the fact that Apple is introducing a subscription  model for the first time for Logic Pro (and Final Cut Pro) on the iPad (about $50 a year each). The desktop versions are a one off purchase with free updates for a very reasonable price considering the power of the programs. Hopefully that will continue but it might be wishful thinking.