peterl Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have a lot of promotional photographs of a particular school and its pupils - used for the prospectus and website. The pics are pretty good and have commercial value in my opinion. I want to upload them and sell rights here on Alamy, and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). I can get permission from parents - that's a bit of a task but not impossible, but I would like to know if any of you think or know if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. This is UK by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Releases are not needed for RM. It's a shame your contract with the school gave them exclusive rights, I'd have wanted to keep non-conflicting rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Releases are not needed for RM. It's a shame your contract with the school gave them exclusive rights, I'd have wanted to keep non-conflicting rights. Well, there's no actual written contract as such. I took the photos when I worked there as a teacher (I have since retired from said profession) so do they have exclusive rights Mark? I mean as the 'commissioner' of the photos are they the masters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Schools are very careful about photographing and use of photos of their pupils taken on their area. (Which you will know, as I later noticed you have been a teacher there). Probably why they want you to obtain permission from the parents. Though easier to use a model release perhaps not all parents may be prepared to grant such a wide-ranging permission a model release would give. So I would prepare normal model releases and a release form (perhaps a model release with exceptions or a form in your own wording) allowing the use for more or less editorial use (equivalent to the Alamy tick in the box: people and no release).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Schools are very careful about photographing and use of photos of their pupils taken on their area. (Which you will know, as I later noticed you have been a teacher there). Probably why they want you to obtain permission from the parents. Though easier to use a model release perhaps not all parents may be prepared to grant such a wide-ranging permission a model release would give. So I would prepare normal model releases and a release form (perhaps a model release with exceptions or a form in your own wording) allowing the use for more or less editorial use (equivalent to the Alamy tick in the box: people and no release).... Niels - thanks. That's a great idea to make my own model release as it were. I was concerned that if parents signed an Alamy model release that would then let the images be used for non-editorial purposes and that's not a goer really in my opinion. So you reckon a home-made MR which excludes commercial useage would do? I'll do that I think. At least parents are aware of the range of use of their offsprings' image, and school are happy that it's not too exploitative. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Schools are very careful about photographing and use of photos of their pupils taken on their area. (Which you will know, as I later noticed you have been a teacher there). Probably why they want you to obtain permission from the parents. Though easier to use a model release perhaps not all parents may be prepared to grant such a wide-ranging permission a model release would give. So I would prepare normal model releases and a release form (perhaps a model release with exceptions or a form in your own wording) allowing the use for more or less editorial use (equivalent to the Alamy tick in the box: people and no release).... Niels - thanks. That's a great idea to make my own model release as it were. I was concerned that if parents signed an Alamy model release that would then let the images be used for non-editorial purposes and that's not a goer really in my opinion. So you reckon a home-made MR which excludes commercial useage would do? I'll do that I think. At least parents are aware of the range of use of their offsprings' image, and school are happy that it's not too exploitative. Thanks! If you do that, which I think I would do, to get all, or most, parents on board, then try not to limit yourself too much. To set restrictions to pure editorial may do that. The images should also be available for books, educational material, etc., I guess. Your own form should probably contain much of the same legal stuff that a normal release does. Think it over a few times and perhaps get somebody to proof-read the form before using it. Niels Also a teacher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If you took them in the c Well, there's no actual written contract as such. I took the photos when I worked there as a teacher (I have since retired from said profession) so do they have exclusive rights Mark? I mean as the 'commissioner' of the photos are they the masters? That is different. If you took them in the course of employment then yes, they own the copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Schools are very careful about photographing and use of photos of their pupils taken on their area. (Which you will know, as I later noticed you have been a teacher there). Probably why they want you to obtain permission from the parents. Though easier to use a model release perhaps not all parents may be prepared to grant such a wide-ranging permission a model release would give. So I would prepare normal model releases and a release form (perhaps a model release with exceptions or a form in your own wording) allowing the use for more or less editorial use (equivalent to the Alamy tick in the box: people and no release).... Niels - thanks. That's a great idea to make my own model release as it were. I was concerned that if parents signed an Alamy model release that would then let the images be used for non-editorial purposes and that's not a goer really in my opinion. So you reckon a home-made MR which excludes commercial useage would do? I'll do that I think. At least parents are aware of the range of use of their offsprings' image, and school are happy that it's not too exploitative. Thanks! If you do that, which I think I would do, to get all, or most, parents on board, then try not to limit yourself too much. To set restrictions to pure editorial may do that. The images should also be available for books, educational material, etc., I guess. Your own form should probably contain much of the same legal stuff that a normal release does. Think it over a few times and perhaps get somebody to proof-read the form before using it. Niels Also a teacher... Nice idea - I do want them to be available for books and other publications etc. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 So you reckon a home-made MR which excludes commercial useage would do? I'll do that I think. At least parents are aware of the range of use of their offsprings' image, and school are happy that it's not too exploitative. Thanks! But make sure that the parents fully understand the meaning of the terms. Many people who are not familiar with stock terminology might well assume that "commercial" means anything that earns a fee, including editorial use, and may be shocked to find the image in a newspaper, magazine or book later on. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Problems: You are selling images that your employer commissioned as part of your employment. You intend to write your own model release. You may have the permission of your principal, but he/she does not have the authority to make decisions of this nature for a child. The intended use, when you took the images, has now changed. Parents may not understand the model release, and all it implies. It is extremely difficult for any distribution system to have 100% control over the use of the images, and some unintended uses may be commercial and controversial. Finally you are dealing with children and their helicopter parents. Parents who in spite of signing an ironclad model release and a benign usage, will turn the publication of their children’s pictures into a political football in order to extract money from everyone involved. “We expected our children to be safe when we send them to school and now this” etc. All it takes is a complaint from one parent, and you are ultimately responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Problems: You are selling images that your employer commissioned as part of your employment. You intend to write your own model release. You may have the permission of your principal, but he/she does not have the authority to make decisions of this nature for a child. The intended use, when you took the images, has now changed. Parents may not understand the model release, and all it implies. It is extremely difficult for any distribution system to have 100% control over the use of the images, and some unintended uses may be commercial and controversial. Finally you are dealing with children and their helicopter parents. Parents who in spite of signing an ironclad model release and a benign usage, will turn the publication of their children’s pictures into a political football in order to extract money from everyone involved. “We expected our children to be safe when we send them to school and now this” etc. All it takes is a complaint from one parent, and you are ultimately responsible. Difficult one this, Bill, I agree. Bit of a grey area too to determine if, as a teacher, I was actually commissioned as part of my employment. Nowhere in my contract of employment does it mention photography of the pupils, but then again I did it during work time. I will take on board everything that has been put to me - thanks all for being very helpful and very cautious on my behalf. I'll speak to the headteacher and make sure he understands the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 It's quite clear cut if you took the photographs in work time on the instructions of your employer. In the absence of any agreement to the contrary they own the rights. CDPA s11(2). https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ownership-of-copyright-works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Problems: You are selling images that your employer commissioned as part of your employment. You intend to write your own model release. You may have the permission of your principal, but he/she does not have the authority to make decisions of this nature for a child. The intended use, when you took the images, has now changed. Parents may not understand the model release, and all it implies. It is extremely difficult for any distribution system to have 100% control over the use of the images, and some unintended uses may be commercial and controversial. Finally you are dealing with children and their helicopter parents. Parents who in spite of signing an ironclad model release and a benign usage, will turn the publication of their children’s pictures into a political football in order to extract money from everyone involved. “We expected our children to be safe when we send them to school and now this” etc. All it takes is a complaint from one parent, and you are ultimately responsible. I would agree with what Bill has said and would urge caution. Kumar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I also tend to agree with the issues Bill raises. When I initially replied I didn't at first know that you were a teacher at the school. It could probably be done, especially if you knew the parents well and they were not too many, but the problems that could turn up ahead may not be worth it. Actually, I have never been able to or wanted to mix the two roles myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris warren Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I agree with what Bill has said and tread very carefully. Funkyworm also made good points, - you might only need a couple of children to make the picture work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I agree with what Bill has said and tread very carefully. Funkyworm also made good points, - you might only need a couple of children to make the picture work. I've got the photos already - I've already handpicked each child, carefully chosen each set and location, and edited tem into photos that have already been used on the website and school prospectus, and I'm already friends with the head etc. I've done all that! I'm going to set my own MR and get parents' permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpics Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I would treat this with great care. Also, if you were employed by the school and acted on the school's behalf taking pictures of the pupils, you might not even be the Copyright holder of these images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I would treat this with great care. Also, if you were employed by the school and acted on the school's behalf taking pictures of the pupils, you might not even be the Copyright holder of these images. Please read the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Give yourself some time on the forum, you'll begin to understand Jeffspeak. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydingo Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Give yourself some time on the forum, you'll begin to understand Jeffspeak. Jill Promise? dd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Give yourself some time on the forum, you'll begin to understand Jeffspeak. Jill I don't think he's going to be here long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Give yourself some time on the forum, you'll begin to understand Jeffspeak. Jill I don't think he's going to be here long. I understood Jeff's post. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 a.> and the school has agreed in principlel to this (sales can be split between me and the school). b.> if I would need an Alamy Model Release form for each person depicted signed by parents. a. ownership unimportant if school agrees, but as backup, get it in writing, IMO (not sure who, prinicpal aka master, superintendent...?) b. if non-sensitive situations, for editorial use, no, but to squelch unexpected conflict, yes Jeff, you're going to have to write that again in English. Sorry Jeff - think I get it. I'm trying to imagine the worst case scenario if the kids' pics are used. They are all 'normal' in looks so I can't see them being used to illustrate obesity, spots/acne, bullying, loneliness or any other teen issues. Thanks all for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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