Jasper Stenger Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi all, quick question about refunds. I recently (May 16th) made my first sale here, single placement editorial website usage, through Alamy's distributor program. Using Google image search I quickly found the website using it. Even though it didn't sell for much (around $4 after Alamy and distributor cuts), I was annoyed to see it refunded more than a month later (July 31st). A quick search in this forum shows that refunds after the 30 day period are quite normal, but all the posts I found on the matter were regarding sales for print, while my image is currently still online on the buyers website. I emailed membership services about the matter 8 days ago, and again last Thursday, but have yet to receive a reply aside from the automated "We’ve got your email" message. I don't have much experience with any of this, but I can't imagine that this is how things are supposed to work in the stock industry. Has anyone else experienced something like this before? How long does it usually take to get a response from membership services (automated response states within an hour)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Take a screen shot of the offending website with your image clearly shown. Then email MS again with the screen shot. Point out that this is the second email as you didn't get a reply to the first. Alamy really should be looking into this sort of thing even if only a small amount of money is involved. Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addict Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have dozens and dozens of copyright thefts - they copy and use a shot of mine sold by alamy initially - on the internet that alamy is not interested in persueing so go figure. They say it's all up to the photographer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have dozens and dozens of copyright thefts - they copy and use a shot of mine sold by alamy initially - on the internet that alamy is not interested in persueing so go figure. They say it's all up to the photographer. Maybe... but if they have bought a licence, got it refunded, but have used and are still using the image, is that not fraud against Alamy? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Same thing just happened to me on July 30th. I wrote to Member Services to report it along with a screen shot proving they did indeed use the photo. but Member Services hasn't re-billed it yet. D96Y4H 16 May 2014 Rights Managed Country: Norway Usage: Editorial Media: Editorial website Placement: Single Placement Image Size: up to full area Start: 01 April 2014 End: 01 May 2014 $ 15.72 D96Y4H (30 July 2014) Rights Managed Sale Refunded $ -15.72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyn Llun Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have dozens and dozens of copyright thefts - they copy and use a shot of mine sold by alamy initially - on the internet that alamy is not interested in persueing so go figure. They say it's all up to the photographer. Maybe... but if they have bought a licence, got it refunded, but have used and are still using the image, is that not fraud against Alamy? Alan Yes, of course it is - and theft from the photographer of course. However, Alamy do not pursue these cases because they figure that it's uneconomic - for them of course. Alamy, like all picture libraries get their 'stock' for free so choose to write off 'shoplifting' up to a certain limit. If a real shopkeeper had a box of chocs stolen worth a few pounds they have lost out because they had to pay for that stock from a supplier in advance of selling it. Those images that are used but not paid for cost the photographer to produce but Alamy nothing, so they write them off. This, in turn further encourages more theft and non-payment. A downward spiral. Imagine a high street shop with a sign in the window saying "We don't prosecute shoplifters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Does that mean if you chase them, and they pay, then you keep the entire bit $15.72? Or would Alamy want their cut, and the distributor? Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Stenger Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Same thing just happened to me on July 30th. I wrote to Member Services to report it along with a screen shot proving they did indeed use the photo. but Member Services hasn't re-billed it yet. ... Which website is that on? Mine is also being used on a Norwegian website in an article about drones. I'm going to mail membership services again, this time with a screenshot as suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 IMO it's poor business and ridiculous to refund for electronic use licenses after the image has been downloaded. Doing so is just asking for abuse and fraud. I suppose after a refund is received the buyer then sends Alamy the file back to ensure it's not being used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoDogue Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Does that mean if you chase them, and they pay, then you keep the entire bit $15.72? Or would Alamy want their cut, and the distributor? Jill In the past, when Alamy declined to persue unauthorized uses, and I was able to collect, I billed at my normal rate and kept 100% But if this originated from Alamy they may be willing to chase up the sale. fD EDIT: The way I see it, if they wanted Alamy rates then they should've licensed the image from Alamy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addict Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 What I do is a google image search of shots that are only sold on alamy and shots that alamy sold. I compare to my sales records. I can easily see where somebody or company had lifted the shot from somebody that paid to use it. I was quite upset in the beginning but I got used to it. There are so many and some are used in Russia and China or other countries. Good luck getting anything from them. So I don't bother. A Canadian hospital stole one of my images and used it on their website. I considered going after them but hospitals do good work so I decided not to make a fuss. It's a donation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 My drone photo has never sold before, and is only on sale at Alamy. That's why I contacted Member Services with my screen shot when the refund came in. They bought it, used it, then got a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regen Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 With all the free publicity you drum up for Alamy on this forum I would have thought they would have recredited your account regardless of wether they had recovered the monies. Regen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan_Andison Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I have dozens and dozens of copyright thefts - they copy and use a shot of mine sold by alamy initially - on the internet that alamy is not interested in persueing so go figure. They say it's all up to the photographer. Maybe... but if they have bought a licence, got it refunded, but have used and are still using the image, is that not fraud against Alamy? Alan Yes, of course it is - and theft from the photographer of course. However, Alamy do not pursue these cases because they figure that it's uneconomic - for them of course. Alamy, like all picture libraries get their 'stock' for free so choose to write off 'shoplifting' up to a certain limit. If a real shopkeeper had a box of chocs stolen worth a few pounds they have lost out because they had to pay for that stock from a supplier in advance of selling it. Those images that are used but not paid for cost the photographer to produce but Alamy nothing, so they write them off. This, in turn further encourages more theft and non-payment. A downward spiral. Imagine a high street shop with a sign in the window saying "We don't prosecute shoplifters". I wouldn't have a problem with Alamy writing their funds off that they consider to hard to chase but they should still pay the Photographer (unless the photographer agreed with Alamy). It would also be like the shopkeeper telling Caburys that they aren't going to pay them for the box of cream eggs they received from them as they were stolen while on display in the shop and they couldn't be bothered to report it to the police . I could only imagine the response from Cadbury's solicitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I had a similar unauthorised use. I assured Alamy that the pic had never been shown anywhere else and, hey presto, after a couple of months it appeared as a sale. Good luck dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Images Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Does that mean if you chase them, and they pay, then you keep the entire bit $15.72? Or would Alamy want their cut, and the distributor? Jill If you are collecting on your own (and OP certainly should if alamy won't!), you sure as hell better be asking for more than $15.72- at least ten times that, if not much more!!! Paying for infringement (which in this case seems willful) is NOT the same as paying for a license. -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeRay Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Somewhere down the line someone needs to raise the question of the obligations of the entrusted Agency in the protection and use of our Intellectual Property and/or their failure to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Fortunately I do not seem to be in the situation of having images ripped off either through Alamy or anywhere else that I know of. (No wants my images, not even for free.) I agree with ReeRay and it would appear, if Alamy reads this, that it has already been raised by him to which we would hope for a reply from James West on this matter. Perhaps someone with a case of copyright theft might bring it to the attention of Alamy through a solicitors letter claiming damages for failure of the company's obligations. Of course that could then jeopardise their position with the company. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If you are collecting on your own (and OP certainly should if alamy won't!), you sure as hell better be asking for more than $15.72- at least ten times that, if not much more!!! Paying for infringement (which in this case seems willful) is NOT the same as paying for a license. That's why I can never understand why Alamy aren't interested. In this case the infringement appears to be against Alamy as much as the photographer so you would think they could use it to generate a bit more cash for both parties. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Stenger Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 I have received a reply to my last email. The matter is currently being looked into by the distribution team. I'll post an update once I know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Stenger Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Update! I received the following 3 days ago: Hello Jasper Just heard back from our distribution team and it was an error at their end. Don’t worry, your image will be re-billed within a month. Sorry for the inconvenience caused and let me know if there’s anything else I can do to help. Thanks Rehana Member Services I can't help but wonder how an error like this is made, and what happens if you don't find the image in use yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arletta Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I had few occasions to wonder the same... I was payed but had to find it first. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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