Harry Harrison Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Retweeted by Ben Kentish of LBC, held for 13 hours until released without charge: https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1589963727188922370 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Deleted comment. Don't want trivialize this sh1t show..🤔 Edited November 8, 2022 by Mr Standfast Thought better of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Kirby Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Yes also in the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/nov/08/photographer-and-film-maker-arrested-at-just-stop-oil-protest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Troubling on the surface but as we always say, it's just a press card, it's not a get-out-of-jail-free card. When journalists (a very wide definition these days) know about these hugely disruptive protests well in advance there must be at least a suspicion of conspiracy, and suspicion is all that's needed. In this case no evidence was found and they were released. No-one is immune from arrest. It's also clear that confrontation was expected here. I'm sure they would have preferred not to be arrested, but they sure made hay out of it. Edited November 8, 2022 by spacecadet 3 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harry Harrison Posted November 8, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 hours ago, spacecadet said: When journalists (a very wide definition these days) know about these hugely disruptive protests well in advance there must be at least a suspicion of conspiracy, and suspicion is all that's needed. In this case no evidence was found and they were released. So photographers should be agents of the state? There were no grounds to arrest them at all, and that was evident at the time of the arrest. Whist they were in custody their wives and children were woken and their houses searched. As I said, this was retweeted by a prominent LBC journalist and presenter. As it happens LBC also know where these demonstrations are taking place in advance, they've been on the spot for Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain and now Just Stop Oil, should their journalists be arrested and their houses searched? I can assure you it won't happen because of the journalistic uproar that would ensue, but it seems that this Home Secretary, and one of her predecessors, think that photographers are fair game. 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Agents of the state? What? No material was seized and it was published shortly after. They were arrested on suspicion of conspiracy under the new Act. Those presumably were the grounds, the vid was edited to remove the ground for arrest of the first person. How was it evident that there were no grounds? I don't like this rightwing government any more than you do, but these protests are hugely disruptive and the new Act allows arrest on exactly the grounds that were stated by the second officer. A search of a suspect's premises seems proportionate in a case of suspected conspiracy. I don't know about LBC, and whether or not they were present, and I don't know what should and shouldn't happen, but whataboutery doesn't help. Not every person is arrested for every suspected offence- it happens on suspicion and evidence. The officers presumably had an honest belief that there were grounds for arrest and they acted on them. Neither of us can say otherwise because we weren't there. I can't see why they wouldn't have acted without fear or favour if they had been LBC staff- they don't have get-out-of-jail-free cards either. Photographers as such aren't "fair game" as far as I can see. Someone who may have committed a serious offence is. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, spacecadet said: How was it evident that there were no grounds? How was it evident that there were grounds? The fact that they were present at a protest that they, and presumably you, don't approve of? The nature of the protest is immaterial. So if any journalists or photographers are present at, or even perhaps have prior knowledge of, a protest or demonstration that the Home Secretary doesn't approve of, or the 'British Public' then that is now automatically suspected conspiracy is it? I'm not talking about 'whataboutery', a clumsy phrase at best, it's simply a fact that journalists have sources and they do not reveal them, that is not conspiracy. The LBC journalist who has always been present at these previous protests has never been challenged and even Nick Ferrari has stood up for their right to do so, and to not reveal how they knew of it. If this new act means that they will now be arrested and their houses searched then things will be getting very interesting indeed. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Prior knowledge of protests is bread and butter for photographers, arresting them for conspiracy is ludicrous. It just sounds like the local Police were told to round up the usual suspects, and that I am afraid is not grounds for a beautiful friendship. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marianne Posted November 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2022 If the press are expected to reveal their sources and notify the police or risk arrest, press freedoms and democracy are at risk. Wondering where my country will be headed after todays elections, seeing stories like this in a fellow democracy gives me pause. I have only given a handful of red arrows in my 14 years here, but I couldn’t help giving one here today. I’m owning up. 3 11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Park Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) Courtesy of the BPPA, a link to police guidance when dealing with press photographers (read right hand page): https://thebppa.com/metropolitan-police-media-guidelines/ ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) also issued an A4 sheet some time ago stating the same information. I used to carry several copies in my camera bag, just in case. See also this: https://www.npcc.police.uk/Publication/NPCC FOI/Information Management/221 15 Guidance for Photographers att 01 of 01.pdf section 4.35 onwards seems relevant. Edited November 9, 2022 by Malcolm Park edit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 ...and so it came to pass, the LBC journalist that I mentioned was herself arrested yesterday morning when on the bridge close to the gantry. Her press pass was ignored, she was handcuffed, her phone was snatched away and she was taken to a police station where she was held in a cell for 5 hours, DNA, fingerprints & mugshot, she has just told Nick Ferrari that she was not questioned. Global lawyers were contacted and she was released. https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/police-shutting-down-free-media-lbc-reporter-arrested/ It's been the lead news item on LBC throughout his show, and indeed it was he that asked for a reporter to attend the scene. He's not going to drop this easily. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IanDavidson Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) I am a strong supporter of the police and believe that the disruption caused by the protesters goes far beyond legitimate protest. However, the arrests of reporters and photographers (and I work with one of the arrested photographers) is deeply concerning and a strong erosion of press freedom. As a news photographer I do, on occasion, get tip offs from all sorts of sources. I also work out where protests and incidents may be happening and try to be there. On a number of occasions police officers have said, in jest, how do I know what is going on before they do. Part of legitimate news gathering is having sources and intelligence and acting on them. The “State” has a vast armoury of resources at its disposal with both human and technology intelligence assets The arrest of journalists is not only disproportionate and an attack on press freedom but may also be considered to be sending a “warning” to journalists which is totally unacceptable. I will continue doing what I do (although I may leave my phone at home!) I do not seek to be arrested but neither will I let police actions stop me doing my job. Edited November 9, 2022 by IanDavidson 2 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 It is law that warrants support not police misuse of it. Wrongful arrest is by definition unlawful. 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: ...and so it came to pass, the LBC journalist that I mentioned was herself arrested yesterday morning when on the bridge close to the gantry. Her press pass was ignored, she was handcuffed, her phone was snatched away and she was taken to a police station where she was held in a cell for 5 hours, DNA, fingerprints & mugshot, she has just told Nick Ferrari that she was not questioned. Global lawyers were contacted and she was released. https://amp.lbc.co.uk/news/police-shutting-down-free-media-lbc-reporter-arrested/ It's been the lead news item on LBC throughout his show, and indeed it was he that asked for a reporter to attend the scene. He's not going to drop this easily. There you are. Without fear or favour. Photographers and journalists are not above the law- and neither are the police. Nearly enough Red Arrows for a "Diamond 9" on my post- anyone care to top up?😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 Statement from Hertfordshire Police today: "Chief Constable Charlie Hall recognises the concerns over the recent arrests of journalists who arrived at these locations, and have been present with the protestors at the scenes. Additional measures are now in place to ensure that legitimate media are able to do their job. In addition, Mr Hall is today requesting an independent force to examine our approach to these arrests and to identify any learning we should take in managing these challenging situations." Apparently Nick Ferrari did feature one of the photographers on his show yesterday, I didn't hear it but I suspect that it was the furore around the arrest of LBC's Charlotte Lynch yesterday that has brought on this new sense of self-awareness from Hertfordshire Police. Today any minister near a microphone is being asked if they support it which is proving to be very awkward for them. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 57 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said: Statement from Hertfordshire Police today: "Chief Constable Charlie Hall recognises the concerns over the recent arrests of journalists who arrived at these locations, and have been present with the protestors at the scenes. Additional measures are now in place to ensure that legitimate media are able to do their job. How about the general public having the legitimate right to take photos in any public place? Or the simple fact that photography is not a criminal activity. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 It was discussed on BBC Radio 4's World at One this lunchtime https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dxcw Starts at 34:59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin L Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 9 hours ago, IanDavidson said: As a news photographer I do, on occasion, get tip offs from all sorts of sources. I also work out where protests and incidents may be happening and try to be there. On a number of occasions police officers have said, in jest, how do I know what is going on before they do. Part of legitimate news gathering is having sources and intelligence and acting on them. Although I do not agree with what happened to those togs, if those tip offs are about something illegal (as these protests were), out of civic duty should you not inform the police? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooth Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Martin L said: Although I do not agree with what happened to those togs, if those tip offs are about something illegal (as these protests were), out of civic duty should you not inform the police? slavery in the western world was legal once upon a time, illegal protests and moral action changed it. edit: slavery is still legal in some formats like prison labor, etc. Edited November 9, 2022 by sooth 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooth Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: Statement from Hertfordshire Police today: "Chief Constable Charlie Hall recognises the concerns over the recent arrests of journalists who arrived at these locations, and have been present with the protestors at the scenes. Additional measures are now in place to ensure that legitimate media are able to do their job. definition of legitimate media? citizen media,citizen journalists with no press pass, or can't get one because of barriers created by police to obtaining one (e.g., nyc) are not considered media? also i know the establishment press like to protect their own, when it comes to citizens armed with a camera getting arrested, these press associations fall silent. Edited November 9, 2022 by sooth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin L Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, sooth said: slavery in the western world was legal once upon a time, illegal protests and moral action changed it. edit: slavery is still legal in some formats like prison labor, etc. Agree, but that was not quite the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooth Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Just now, Martin L said: Agree, but that was not quite the point I was making. i think that was the point you were making. obeying the law because it's the law is pretty naive. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin L Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, sooth said: i think that was the point you were making. obeying the law because it's the law is pretty naive. That's the operative word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nacke Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 As someone who has covered demonstrations around the world in days gone by, I am seriously shocked to read the GUARDIAN story. Not shocked by the arrest of photographers, but the police arriving at one journalist's home and searching their home is SHOCKING. I am also surprised to read about this happening in the UK, in the U.S. unfortunately, it would not surprise me. Even Moscow in the early to mid 1990's it was not bad. Chuck 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansos Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 On 08/11/2022 at 13:27, Harry Harrison said: Retweeted by Ben Kentish of LBC, held for 13 hours until released without charge: https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1589963727188922370 Quite illegal and disgusting IMHO 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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