stemming revival

[FocusUno]

maybe PA Media has a stemming machine they could employ wrt alamy, another major agency seems to have some form of stemming in place but possibly with a dose of AI to reduce false returns, some of us always thought it a mistake to end stemming, it produced false returns but also produced so so many added returns that licensed, warning post may be too challenging for some like r e

Edited July 29, 2021 by FocusUno
reduced degree of difficulty with those like r e in mind

[Inchiquin]

5 hours ago, FocusUno said:

maybe PA Media has a stemming machine they could employ wrt alamy, another major agency seems to have some form of stemming in place but possibly with a dose of AI to reduce false returns, some of us always thought it a mistake to end stemming, it produced false returns but also produced so so many added returns that licensed, warning post may be too challenging for some like r e

 

I've keyworded all my images to take account of non-stemming. I don't want a return to blanket stemming that would create lots of extra unnecessary hits in searches.

 

Alan

 

[FocusUno]

11 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

I've keyworded all my images to take account of non-stemming.

just looked at your very first image no others whether you agree or not you've missed licenses that stemming would not have IMO are you aware when many buyers want a house they search houses thinking it will give them multiple house choices, this thinking happens over and over and over solved by stemming

2G8XHEG houses relaxes men naps rests takes

your 4317 images x ?average? 6 missed plurals per image = over 25K missed plurals = ??? missed licenses

& there's other missed stemming like "ing" how do some people sleep well at night I don't know

Edited July 29, 2021 by FocusUno
to save r e from hiring tutor

[Inchiquin]

6 hours ago, FocusUno said:

 

just looked at your very first image no others whether you agree or not you've missed licenses that stemming would not have IMO are you aware when many buyers want a house they search houses thinking it will give them multiple house choices, this thinking happens over and over and over solved by stemming

 

You've made my point for me. I choose which images I want stemmed, not the Alany search engine. If I have pictures of houses I decide which ones are likely to be of most interest to people searching for "houses", so that they don't all turn up in searches and damage my CTR (if CTR still means anything).

 

Alan

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Inchiquin

[John Mitchell]

On 28/07/2021 at 23:51, Inchiquin said:

 

I've keyworded all my images to take account of non-stemming. I don't want a return to blanket stemming that would create lots of extra unnecessary hits in searches.

 

Alan

 

 

... but Rosie has all of ten images to stem. That's a mammoth undertaking. 😎

[Robert M Estall]

FocusUno is not Rossie Betancourt, it's our old pal JeffG. He does indeed have a whole lot of images and, as ever, he is in favour of anything which can get more of his images processed just a tiny bit quicker. It is conceivable that a form of AI stemming might work, but most of us don't need it

Edited July 31, 2021 by Robert M Estall

[FocusUno]

6 hours ago, Robert M Estall said:

most of us don't need it...

...because some of us don't understand reality of searches eg r e first image**  T7CJ38 has barn only, even wiki offers plural when searching singular tithe barn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe_barns_in_Europe,
some smarter competitors knew to also pluralize their (86) tithe barn images since some searchers will license barn after searching barns, some of us would welcome optional stemming, consider it PA Media;

https://www.alamy.com/search.html?CreativeOn=1&adv=1&ag=0&all=1&creative=&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&res=0x0&frrate=0&ach=0&matte=0&loop=0&edrf=&qt=tithe barns

**3932 x ?5? missing plurals per image = r e 19660 missed licensing opportunities

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by FocusUno
to assist r e comprehension

[meanderingemu]

interesting.  Where do you find out what these people were looking for?  Why does Alamy not make this available to all contributors? 

[Inchiquin]

15 hours ago, FocusUno said:

 

some smarter competitors knew to also pluralize their (86) tithe barn images since some searchers will license barn after searching barns, some of us would welcome optional stemming

 

 

You can have "optional" whatever you like, but some smarter competitors prefer to decide for themselves which images they want stemmed.

 

Alan

[gvallee]

I don't want stemming. I would have to re-do my keywords hierarchy in Bridge which already accounts for it.

[gvallee]

9 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

interesting.  Where do you find out what these people were looking for?  Why does Alamy not make this available to all contributors? 

 

Alamy used to provide stemming. They turned it off (without warning) as it was returning too many false positives. We had to go through all our images to cater for it manually.

If I remember correctly, one of many examples was 'sky' and 'skiing'. The problem was that there was no disambiguation. It was a bit of shame to lose plurals though.

[Colblimp]

What, in all that's holy, is stemming?!

[gvallee]

2 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

What, in all that's holy, is stemming?!

 

Example: walk, walks, walking, walked

[Colblimp]

1 minute ago, gvallee said:

 

Example: walk, walks, walking, walked

Ah, gotcha.  Thanks Gen.

[Phil Robinson]

On 29/07/2021 at 16:10, FocusUno said:

houses men naps

Why would anyone caption an image of one man taking one nap outside one house with those plural forms? 
A potential client searching for 'houses' wants a picture of more than one house. Likewise 'men'.

 

 

[gvallee]

15 minutes ago, Phil Robinson said:

Why would anyone caption an image of one man taking one nap outside one house with those plural forms? 
A potential client searching for 'houses' wants a picture of more than one house. Likewise 'men'.

 

 

 

I do tag singular and plural because once a photo buyer chipped in in the old forum and said he might look for 'dogs' even if he wanted pictures of one dog, as in 'show me pictures of your dogs'. I know, it was only one buyer but...

[John Mitchell]

I prefer to do selective stemming myself, as big a pain as it can be.

 

The problem with AI is that often it turns out to be exactly what its name says it is. 😉

[Ed Rooney]

 

Since one of the main reasons I shoot stock is to have something to do, I don't want a lot of auto stuff. I enjoy washing dishes by hand. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Ed Rooney

[Inchiquin]

22 hours ago, Phil Robinson said:

 

Why would anyone caption an image of one man taking one nap outside one house with those plural forms? 
A potential client searching for 'houses' wants a picture of more than one house. Likewise 'men'.

 

 

No, that's not the case. People do search for things like "French houses" for example. It seems perfectly logical to a lot of people that a search engine would be able to understand what they want. In days gone by they might have walked into a library and asked to see pictures of "French houses".

 

In this particular case I decided that what was showing of the house would probably not satisfy such a search. I might be wrong, but I still want to decide that for myself.

 

Alan

Edited August 2, 2021 by Inchiquin

[FocusUno]

my mistake: OP should have been, "what is best stemming software?", because some....nevermind  

(Alamy called it stemming, actually the opposite of stemming is what's needed)

Dashboard > Measures > All of Alamy > restaurants
(its alarmingly obvious many plural searches meant to find photos of a restaurant, unless one is hopelessly stubborn...)

 

restaurants	8	0	2	2,010	0.10
china street restaurants	1	0	9	1,400	0.64
Restaurants Chicago	1	0	1	1,026	0.10
hong kong street restaurants	1	0	8	600	1.33
restaurants barcelona	1	0	4	600	0.67
restaurants birmingham	1	0	0	500	0.00
Restaurants Tenerife	1	0	5	500	1.00
restaurants in Nice, France	1	0	0	438	0.00
PARISIAN RESTAURANTS	1	0	0	400	0.00
lisbon restaurants	2	0	2	400	0.50
restaurants england	1	0	0	400	0.00
restaurants boarded up	1	0	1	350	0.29
frankfurt restaurants	2	0	3	317	0.95
Beijing street restaurants	1	0	5	308	1.62
restaurants in istanbul	1	0	2	300	0.67
miami ocean drive restaurants	1	0	0	300	0.00
restaurants washington dc	1	0	0	300	0.00
Restaurants kyoto	1	0	18	300	6.00
nice france old town restaurants	1	0	0	287	0.00

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by FocusUno

[geogphotos]

Jeff,

 

Can't you solve this yourself by adding both singular and plural to your keywords?

 

I tend to do that for 'building/s', 'shop/s', church/churches', 'house/houses' but wouldn't want it done automatically.

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by geogphotos

[FocusUno]

all those claiming to want control of stemming variations must also, to be consistent, want control of their processing & therefore must be processing one pixel at a time or else they would be at the mercy of processing software making decisions -- BUT NO ONE, NO ONE, processes one pixel at a time

[geogphotos]

10 hours ago, FocusUno said:

all those claiming to want control of stemming variations must also, to be consistent, want control of their processing & therefore must be processing one pixel at a time or else they would be at the mercy of processing software making decisions -- BUT NO ONE, NO ONE, processes one pixel at a time

 

 

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning.  Colloquially, a false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges.

Edited August 6, 2021 by geogphotos

[FocusUno]

resident bickerer has learned to copy & paste which immediately evidences lack of understanding previous spot on comparison;

back to thy drudgery lad, a pharaoh's chicken awaits thy pixel-by-pixel labour;
Shakespeare compose me an ode to naive pedantry wilt thou

Edited August 6, 2021 by FocusUno

[geogphotos]

32 minutes ago, FocusUno said:

resident bickerer has learned to copy & paste which immediately evidences lack of understanding previous spot on comparison;

back to thy drudgery lad, a pharaoh's chicken awaits thy pixel-by-pixel labour;
Shakespeare compose me an ode to naive pedantry wilt thou

 

 

Classic JG. 😁

Edited August 6, 2021 by geogphotos