Shopping around

[John Mitchell]

My other job is tutoring high school students, so I see a lot of textbooks. This evening I had a look at a new-ish grade 10 math textbook used in BC schools. It was heavily illustrated with photos from a variety of stock agencies, including Alamy (nice to see), the big G, well-known micros and others. What struck me is that the publisher really must have shopped around for images, which is something to keep in mind if one is sending the same images to both Alamy and MS agencies where they will probably license for very small amounts. The publisher also used all types of images, with and without people.

[Betty LaRue]

I think especially with one of a kind or unique images we would be stupid to put them on a micro. For instance, I’ve shot My African Gray hundreds of times but only once did I catch her 3rd eyelid. Not that it’s sold, but hey, who knows.....search it and you’ll see Echo is the only bird showing it.

[MariaJ]

45 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

My other job is tutoring high school students, so I see a lot of textbooks. This evening I had a look at a new-ish grade 10 math textbook used in BC schools. It was heavily illustrated with photos from a variety of stock agencies, including Alamy (nice to see), the big G, well-known micros and others. What struck me is that the publisher really must have shopped around for images, which is something to keep in mind if one is sending the same images to both Alamy and MS agencies where they will probably license for very small amounts. The publisher also used all types of images, with and without people.

 

That's a good point John.  I've also noticed in textbooks I've used, and in books where I've found my photographs, that the image credits often list several different agencies.  So it doesn't make sense to compete with yourself  by having the same images elsewhere and cheaper.

[Colblimp]

2 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I think especially with one of a kind or unique images we would be stupid to put them on a micro. For instance, I’ve shot My African Gray hundreds of times but only once did I catch her 3rd eyelid. Not that it’s sold, but hey, who knows.....search it and you’ll see Echo is the only bird showing it.

Parrots have 3 eyelids?  Who knew?!

[Cryptoprocta]

1 hour ago, Colblimp said:

Parrots have 3 eyelids?  Who knew?!

Many birds have a nictitating membrane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane

[Cryptoprocta]

4 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

My other job is tutoring high school students, so I see a lot of textbooks. This evening I had a look at a new-ish grade 10 math textbook used in BC schools. It was heavily illustrated with photos from a variety of stock agencies, including Alamy (nice to see), the big G, well-known micros and others. What struck me is that the publisher really must have shopped around for images, which is something to keep in mind if one is sending the same images to both Alamy and MS agencies where they will probably license for very small amounts. The publisher also used all types of images, with and without people.

That has been the case for very many years (I used to be a teacher). Though back in the day they didn't tend to use micro images as the micros didn't sell specifically editorial pics, and the publishers couldn't be sure of the veracity of the photos*

My Alamy pics are only sold at Alamy, but I have also noticed several books with pics from multiple agencies not including Alamy, for no obvious reason when I looked at Alamy pics on that subject, so by only selling on Alamy you could be losing some potential sales.

*But now there is no way of indicating on Alamy that pics have not been digitally altered or 'set up', and I'm not sure that buyers can search only on 'previously Live News' images (but maybe that can be requesed if you ask Alamy search for you [?])

[Colblimp]

1 hour ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Many birds have a nictitating membrane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane

Wow, that's amazing!  Thanks!  👍

[Niels Quist]

3 hours ago, Colblimp said:

Parrots have 3 eyelids?  Who knew?!

 

They never talk about it

[Colblimp]

Just now, Niels Quist said:

 

They never talk about it

Haha. 😂

[NYCat]

Cats have a 3rd eyelid too and my sweet kitty has feline herpes so his white eyelid shows a bit at the inner corners.

 

Paulette

[njene]

I never thought that buyers would shop around to save a couple bucks, just from a “time is money” aspect

but I have changed my mind recently about that

 

just a few days ago one of my images were zoomed, then the next day, it sold on a micro site as a sub. (The image is RF on both sites)

the image is unique in the sense that the buyer had to use a very specific keywords to get the image, so the chance of this being mere coincidence is next to nil

 

so I am convinced that some buyers do take the time to look around and perhaps try to get the cheapest price

i may have to rethink my strategy of where to put images for sale and where to exclude them.

[Cryptoprocta]

24 minutes ago, njene said:

...

i may have to rethink my strategy of where to put images for sale and where to exclude them.

I don't think we can work out an optimal strategy.

A commonplace file might sell for a reasonable or high amount on a micro (once a buyer paid $250 on a micro for my photo of a gift bow isolated on white - I got the bow in a pack of three for £1). Or a unique subject might sell for cents on Alamy, because it's all about the discount the buyer has negotiated, not the rarity or quality of the file.

If you want highest rpd, sell via a specialist agency if you can supply according to their requirements (often a minimum number of new files/subjects per month or per quarter).

If you want highest total income, the specialist agency might do that for you if you fit their requirements; or it might be micro. It's very unlikely to be Alamy.

If percentage of sale $$ is paramount, micros definitely aren't it. Exclusive to Alamy may fit the bill.

[Michael Ventura]

I think what buyers often do is go to their cheapest source first and then whatever holes are not filled, they go to the next cheapest and so on.  Most of the USA publications I find Alamy images in, have used multiple image sources in that same issue.  

[Cryptoprocta]

5 minutes ago, Michael Ventura said:

I think what buyers often do is go to their cheapest source first and then whatever holes are not filled, they go to the next cheapest and so on.  Most of the USA publications I find Alamy images in, have used multiple image sources in that same issue.  

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what happens with some UK magazines also.

Bear in mind, large publishers no doubt have a bulk deal in place with Alamy as well as the other places.

[John Mitchell]

11 hours ago, MariaJ said:

 

That's a good point John.  I've also noticed in textbooks I've used, and in books where I've found my photographs, that the image credits often list several different agencies.  So it doesn't make sense to compete with yourself  by having the same images elsewhere and cheaper.

 

I was really surprised at how many stock agencies -- macro and micro -- the publishers of this math book series had shopped at. It was encouraging to see quite a few Alamy pictures used, as well as some from one of Alamy's Canadian distributors. These days, textbook publishers seem to be competing fiercely with each other to see who can come out with the slickest looking products, so they are using a lot of images. The irony is that the books have become so expensive (and bulky) that schools don't want to shell out for them any longer. Many have switched to just buying the cheaper workbooks that don't have any photos at all in them.

 

Right. It's really easy to compete with yourself these days. I'm pretty sure that I'm already doing that. 🙃

[John Mitchell]

8 hours ago, Cryptoprocta said:

That has been the case for very many years (I used to be a teacher). Though back in the day they didn't tend to use micro images as the micros didn't sell specifically editorial pics, and the publishers couldn't be sure of the veracity of the photos*

My Alamy pics are only sold at Alamy, but I have also noticed several books with pics from multiple agencies not including Alamy, for no obvious reason when I looked at Alamy pics on that subject, so by only selling on Alamy you could be losing some potential sales.

*But now there is no way of indicating on Alamy that pics have not been digitally altered or 'set up', and I'm not sure that buyers can search only on 'previously Live News' images (but maybe that can be requesed if you ask Alamy search for you [?])

 

For many years,  I submitted images to a small specialist agency whose main clients were textbook publishers. The big macro agencies -- and probably the micros as well -- eventually drove the agency out of business. That's a good point you make about possibly losing potential sales in some cases by going exclusive. It's really complicated out there...

[Bill Brooks]

Like John I notice the Alamy credit more and more. Even for Canadian based publications.

 

Regarding shopping around for price....

I once did the photo editing for a geography set of flashcards, textbooks, and teacher's workbooks for grades 1-8 requiring over 3,000 images. The project was called "One World; Family life and activities around the world". Maybe John knows about it, because it was used for years in the BC education system.

 

First we determined which agency had the most images that met our needs. Second we made a price deal with that agency based a "use us first and if we have it" basis. At this point no more price shopping. We ended up purchasing about 80% of the images from the selected agency. Then we filled in the remaining unattainable 20% from other sources at various prices.

 

We had strict deadlines, and because of the deal a set budget for images. We did not have the time or need, to price shop around on an image to image basis.

This was before the internet, but I think the process would be similar today.

[Niels Quist]

If you search Google Books with your pseudo and alamy - you will get lists of picture credits in books with one or more of your images. As all credits are on the same pages in the books this will also show the variety of picture agencies used from micro sites to various macro sites. In my experience some shopping around is taking place.

 

 

 

[John Mitchell]

2 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

Like John I notice the Alamy credit more and more. Even for Canadian based publications.

 

Regarding shopping around for price....

I once did the photo editing for a geography set of flashcards, textbooks, and teacher's workbooks for grades 1-8 requiring over 3,000 images. The project was called "One World; Family life and activities around the world". Maybe John knows about it, because it was used for years in the BC education system.

 

First we determined which agency had the most images that met our needs. Second we made a price deal with that agency based a "use us first and if we have it" basis. At this point no more price shopping. We ended up purchasing about 80% of the images from the selected agency. Then we filled in the remaining unattainable 20% from other sources at various prices.

 

We had strict deadlines, and because of the deal a set budget for images. We did not have the time or need, to price shop around on an image to image basis.

This was before the internet, but I think the process would be similar today.

 

I'm not familiar with the "One World" series that you mention. I did teach grades 4 to 7 at one time but then switched to working with older students (after my semi nervous breakdown). I imagine that the buying process hasn't changed that much. However, with so many options now available -- micros, macros, and everything in between -- it looks to me like publishers are playing the field a lot as well, getting a handful of images from each agency.

[John Mitchell]

P.S. Tonight, I had a look at a brand new grade 9 science book being used in BC. There were lots of Alamy images, mainly through what appears to be their main Canadian distributor. I guess the publisher prefers to pay in CAN. Also plenty of images from a certain "tier 1" MS agency.

[Cryptoprocta]

7 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

P.S. Tonight, I had a look at a brand new grade 9 science book being used in BC. There were lots of Alamy images, mainly through what appears to be their main Canadian distributor. I guess the publisher prefers to pay in CAN. Also plenty of images from a certain "tier 1" MS agency.

Can Canadian Alamy buyers not pay in Can$?

I can only see UK£ prices when I look at files here, not US$.

[Cryptoprocta]

On 09/04/2019 at 09:35, Cryptoprocta said:

*But now there is no way of indicating on Alamy that pics have not been digitally altered or 'set up', and I'm not sure that buyers can search only on 'previously Live News' images (but maybe that can be requesed if you ask Alamy search for you [?])

I'm now - having thought about it - wondering how big an issue this is.

I'm hoping Alamy noticed that very few buyers were ticking the 'unaltered' box when searching before they made it that we didn't have to tick 'digitally altered' on submissions, and decided these few buyers didn't matter (always a slippery slope - that has historically been a big problem with my micro, constantly making changes because "Only a tiny percentage of our customers were using that feature", but all these small percentages add up).

I know that back in the day textbook publishers' main reason for not using micro (when  there was a larger price differential than nowadays) was, as I stated above, that they couldn't know if images had been set up or altered. Whereas now at least one of them has strict rules about digital changes (dust bunnies and CA OK) and captioning. Is that now a disadvantage for Alamy? I have to say that now that we don't have to declare digitally altered, I often do a quick sweep taking out bird droppings, litter, minor vandalism, small parts of a person who walked into the edge of my photo etc. But there is now no way of indicating that a pic has been altered much more than that, photos combined, etc etc.

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Can Canadian Alamy buyers not pay in Can$?

I can only see UK£ prices when I look at files here, not US$.

 

Not sure., but in Canada prices are given in US$ on the Alamy site.