Panorama - how to force a merge?

[Vincent Lowe]

I'm trying to merge these three into a panorama (PhotoshopCC - Photomerge).  The one on the right will merge with the centre but I can't get the one on the left to merge, no matter what I try.  Is there a way to 'force' a merge?

 

[MDM]

First thing you could try is merging the raw images in Lightroom or ACR instead of Photoshop assuming you have the raws. Sometimes a merge won't work in LR and will work in PS or vice versa. I use Lightroom whenever possible for merges these days rather than Photoshop as this produces a DNG which is effectively a raw image and often more amenable to editing. 

 

However, you might have your work cut out for you with those images as clouds are among the most difficult features to auto merge I find even when there is plenty of land in the pictures. In this case there do not appear to be a lot of really definitive features to work on so the only way to do it may be by combining in layers and doing a lot of hard graft retouching with layer masks. I would only bother to do this if it was an important image. 

[Colin Woods]

No idea about forcing panoramics in PS, but PT Gui (ptgui.com) is supposed to be the dogs when it comes to pano stitching. They have a fully functional demo with no time limit, but with watermarks.

[Vincent Lowe]

Thanks for the replies.  I tried with the raws but got the same result.  I have downloaded Lightroom as part of my CC package but only had a quick glance at it so far - I use IMatch for all my image management, keywording etc.  However, I'm interested in the LRTimelapse plug-in so will have to bite the bullet someday..!  But you are right - it's not an important image so I don't want to spend much time on it.

 

Colin - I had a look at PT Gui a while ago but decided it was a bit over-the-top (and expensive) for the very few panoramas that I produce - and the even fewer that have sold...

 

 

 

[wiskerke]

I just tried it by hand and it's quite easy.

Align automatically or shift by hand.

Keep copies of all three layers.

Auto Blend 3 layers.

Now use the copies to correct blemishes in the blended image. (Not necessary in the thumbnails, but maybe at 100%.)

 

wim

 

[MDM]

17 minutes ago, Vincent Lowe said:

Thanks for the replies.  I tried with the raws but got the same result.  I have downloaded Lightroom as part of my CC package but only had a quick glance at it so far - I use IMatch for all my image management, keywording etc.  However, I'm interested in the LRTimelapse plug-in so will have to bite the bullet someday..!  But you are right - it's not an important image so I don't want to spend much time on it.

 

 

 

Just to say that ACR has the same Merge to Panorama feature if you don't use LR (presuming you are using ACR for raw conversion).You need to open the images in ACR, select them in Filmstrip and then see the menu at the top.

[Vincent Lowe]

Yes I do use ACR and that's exactly what I did but it didn't work.  However, I've just tried wim's technique on the thumbnails and it worked.  I have to nip out now but I'll try it with the full images later.  Thanks wim.

[Bill Brooks]

I merge in photoshop 6. 

Adobe says a 40% overlap but you can’t count clouds, clear skies, gently moving water, as part of the 40%. There is no hard similar detail between different exposures in these areas to get a grip on. 

Depending on the image, the software may not need 40% but your example is a poor auto merge candidate because there is not enough overlap, and the subject matter is difficult to merge anyway.

I always take a lot more images than required by the 40% overlap.  Usually shoot a 60% overlap for more certainty.

 

MDM thanks for the ACR merge tip.

 

In this shot the sky and moving water information were useless for merging, so the shooting overlap was more like 80%. The buildings and sky merged OK in photoshop. The moving water did not, resulting in much water retouching.

 

 

 

[Bryan]

Tad off topic, but does anyone sell thin and wide panoramas? They appear so tiny in a customer search. I have a few but never sold any.

 

I've had a bit more success with horizontal shots stacked vertically, when you generate a huge file of more usable proportions.  Alternatively, stacking vertical format shots as a horizontal panorama can give a more generally acceptable format.

 

[wiskerke]

50 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Tad off topic, but does anyone sell thin and wide panoramas? They appear so tiny in a customer search. I have a few but never sold any.

 

I've had a bit more success with horizontal shots stacked vertically, when you generate a huge file of more usable proportions.  Alternatively, stacking vertical format shots as a horizontal panorama can give a more generally acceptable format.

 

 

Good question. I see it more often somehow. Not the extreme 4:1 images maybe, but 2:1 is quite common now as a header or as a background image for the header.

I noticed, because I found some of mine cropped.

 

Some samples: https://www.jetlifevacations.net/australia---fiji.html

(Not mine - nor Alamy's but Rudi1976 via)

 

http://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-guide/sydney/shopping

Oh dear both have used my image with the exact same ordering info still in the exif.

 

wim

 

and here's yet another: https://www.traveldk.com/gallery/best-views-in-sydney/

No exif though and most probably paid as well. Also Travel+Leisure is a valued client.

[Vincent Lowe]

Success...!  Thanks to wim's manual technique.   The skies blended very well, I only had to do a little touching up on the sea where the wave pattern had changed between shots.

 

Bill - you are probably correct that there is not enough overlap but I didn't have much time to check properly.  I was within seconds of being hit by another hefty shower which was rapidly approaching out of shot on the left....

 

Finished version, not full size.....

 

For those who like to know these things - Orkney Isles over the Pentland Firth, from the north coast of Caithness.  Jan 19th.  Thanks again wim.

 

[Vincent Lowe]

Bryan - I've sold about ten or so panoramas though some of them are not really true panoramas, just two or three images stitched together.  The thinnest / widest I've sold measures 11296 x 2465 pixels  (Trail Magazine, April 2013) -

 

[spacecadet]

30 minutes ago, Vincent Lowe said:

 

For those who like to know these things - Orkney Isles over the Pentland Firth, from the north coast of Caithness.  Jan 19th.  Thanks again wim.

 

 

I wish I could have seen the one from the other, either way. We could hardly see the other side of the campsite.

[Vincent Lowe]

22 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I wish I could have seen the one from the other, either way. We could hardly see the other side of the campsite.

 

Ha..!  I know the feeling.

 

Vince

 

PS - I love the chocolate Nikons......

 

[Graham]

Quote

Tad off topic, but does anyone sell thin and wide panoramas? They appear so tiny in a customer search. I have a few but never sold any.

 

I have been trying out panoramas relatively recently and have uploaded a few.  I do this mostly for fun, which is a good job since none has so far even been zoomed, let alone sold!  They take quite a long time to create in the first place (I generally use Lightroom, and they tie up computer resources for ages while they are created) and then a long time to check and review, both because the resulting images are so large and because Lightroom becomes so sluggish: to be honest, my time would be much better spent processing normal individual images, although I will probably continue to do some for my own satisfaction.  

 

They can be so frustrating: yesterday I was working on a panoramic view of Phnom Pehn over the Mekong River which was 19 images wide, although with a fair degree of overlap between them.  There was one image in the middle that was unaccountably too soft to be acceptable, and try as I may, I could not eliminate it and rely on the overlap from the adjacent mages, but of course I did not notice this until reviewing the final image, by when I had wasted a great deal of time.

 

Graham

[Richard Laidler]

I've done a few in Lightroom recently without (yet!) finding any problems with the merge. The biggest was 4 images with not a great deal of overlap and it did take a fair while to create. I find that - depending on how much zoom I'used, two or  three images is usually enough. In terms of visual result, I tend to use a focal length of about 35 - 50mm (Canon 18-135). Merge the raw files before any other post processing is carried out.

 

 

 

 

[tarsierspectral]

20 hours ago, Bryan said:

Tad off topic, but does anyone sell thin and wide panoramas? They appear so tiny in a customer search. I have a few but never sold any.

 

I've had a bit more success with horizontal shots stacked vertically, when you generate a huge file of more usable proportions.  Alternatively, stacking vertical format shots as a horizontal panorama can give a more generally acceptable format.

 

Out of about 30 panoramas I have I sold 14.  

[tarsierspectral]

4 hours ago, funkyworm said:

Ha... I was just thinking to myself that it'd be a good idea if there was a filter for customers just to look at panorama's. Its such a good idea that it is already there. And I have quite a few of them apparently. I only recall one ever selling.

Does it automatically know that the image is a panorama?

[spacecadet]

Just now, tarsierspectral said:

Does it automatically know that the image is a panorama?

The same filter that identifies orientation can presumably identify aspect ratio and decide that anything above, say, 3:1 is a panoramic.

[Nigel Kirby]

Have you tried to merge just two of the images and then save the file. Then merge the third image to the saved file. I read that Joe Cornish did that with his stitched panos

[Vincent Lowe]

15 minutes ago, Nigel Kirby said:

Have you tried to merge just two of the images and then save the file. Then merge the third image to the saved file. I read that Joe Cornish did that with his stitched panos

 

Yes, I tried that.  Merging the centre and right was ok but couldn't get the left one to merge.  Tried just left and centre, still no joy.  The only thing that worked was blending them manually as suggested by wim.

 

Edit - as wim said, it's actually quite easy - once you know how...

[tarsierspectral]

17 hours ago, Vincent Lowe said:

 

Yes, I tried that.  Merging the centre and right was ok but couldn't get the left one to merge.  Tried just left and centre, still no joy.  The only thing that worked was blending them manually as suggested by wim.

 

Edit - as wim said, it's actually quite easy - once you know how...

Can you explain Wim's technique?  I read it above but don't understand it.

Align automatically or shift by hand.  How do you align automatically?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

Keep copies of all three layers.

Auto Blend 3 layers.  How do you auto blend?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

Now use the copies to correct blemishes in the blended image. (Not necessary in the thumbnails, but maybe at 100%.). How?

 

Thanks

[Vincent Lowe]

Can you explain Wim's technique?  I read it above but don't understand it.

Align automatically or shift by hand.  

 

I did it by hand - created a new document approx. three times as wide as the originals.  Pasted copies of all three images onto the new doc. as separate layers.  Reduced opacity of the middle image (set as top layer) so that I could see the other images behind it.  Moved the outer layers to get the best fit at around the middle of the overlaps.

 

How do you align automatically?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit.... Auto-Align Layers'.  You need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I didn't try this; as it didn't work in Auto-Photomerge I assumed it wouldn't work here either. 

 

Keep copies of all three layers.

 

I didn't bother - but the original images are still available if needed.

 

Auto Blend 3 layers.  How do you auto blend?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit....Auto-Blend Layers'.  Again you need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I restored the opacity of the centre image to 100% then applied the auto-blend.

 

Now use the copies to correct blemishes in the blended image. (Not necessary in the thumbnails, but maybe at 100%.). How?

 

Not sure - I didn't need to do this.  Presumably clone / blend bits from the copies to hide blemishes.

 

To finish I flattened the image then touched-up a bit of the sea around the join, using the clone brush at various opacity settings to blend in the waves as best I could.  The wave pattern had changed between shots.

 

Edit - just to add I'm using the latest version of PhotoshopCC.  I can't remember if the auto commands are available in earlier versions.

 

[tarsierspectral]

1 hour ago, Vincent Lowe said:

Can you explain Wim's technique?  I read it above but don't understand it.

Align automatically or shift by hand.  

 

I did it by hand - created a new document approx. three times as wide as the originals.  Pasted copies of all three images onto the new doc. as separate layers.  Reduced opacity of the middle image (set as top layer) so that I could see the other images behind it.  Moved the outer layers to get the best fit at around the middle of the overlaps.

 

How do you align automatically?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit.... Auto-Align Layers'.  You need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I didn't try this; as it didn't work in Auto-Photomerge I assumed it wouldn't work here either. 

 

Keep copies of all three layers.

 

I didn't bother - but the original images are still available if needed.

 

Auto Blend 3 layers.  How do you auto blend?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit....Auto-Blend Layers'.  Again you need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I restored the opacity of the centre image to 100% then applied the auto-blend.

 

Now use the copies to correct blemishes in the blended image. (Not necessary in the thumbnails, but maybe at 100%.). How?

 

Not sure - I didn't need to do this.  Presumably clone / blend bits from the copies to hide blemishes.

 

To finish I flattened the image then touched-up a bit of the sea around the join, using the clone brush at various opacity settings to blend in the waves as best I could.  The wave pattern had changed between shots.

 

Edit - just to add I'm using the latest version of PhotoshopCC.  I can't remember if the auto commands are available in earlier versions.

 

Thanks Vincent

[MDM]

4 hours ago, Vincent Lowe said:

Can you explain Wim's technique?  I read it above but don't understand it.

Align automatically or shift by hand.  

 

I did it by hand - created a new document approx. three times as wide as the originals.  Pasted copies of all three images onto the new doc. as separate layers.  Reduced opacity of the middle image (set as top layer) so that I could see the other images behind it.  Moved the outer layers to get the best fit at around the middle of the overlaps.

 

How do you align automatically?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit.... Auto-Align Layers'.  You need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I didn't try this; as it didn't work in Auto-Photomerge I assumed it wouldn't work here either. 

 

Keep copies of all three layers.

 

I didn't bother - but the original images are still available if needed.

 

Auto Blend 3 layers.  How do you auto blend?  Is this a function in Photoshop?

 

Yes.  'Edit....Auto-Blend Layers'.  Again you need to have at least two layers selected in the Layers panel otherwise the command is greyed out.  I restored the opacity of the centre image to 100% then applied the auto-blend.

 

Now use the copies to correct blemishes in the blended image. (Not necessary in the thumbnails, but maybe at 100%.). How?

 

Not sure - I didn't need to do this.  Presumably clone / blend bits from the copies to hide blemishes.

 

To finish I flattened the image then touched-up a bit of the sea around the join, using the clone brush at various opacity settings to blend in the waves as best I could.  The wave pattern had changed between shots.

 

Edit - just to add I'm using the latest version of PhotoshopCC.  I can't remember if the auto commands are available in earlier versions.

 

 

Auto blending has been available in PS since CS4 apparently. 

 

There are a few ways of automating the process so no need to create docs in PS and do it all manually by opening , copying and pasting.

 

Lightroom has the most options. There does not seem to be any difference in the final results of the following: 

 

1. Right click  Edit - Merge to Panorama in Photoshop

2. Right click Edit -  Open as Layers in Photoshop and then either use Edit - Auto Blend or File- Automate - Photomerge

 

The output is a layered file which can be flattened. If you need to do further editing, rather than cloning it is better to keep the layers and use the layer masks which will be available when the blending has been completed. This allows totally non-destructive editing. If you don't know how to use Layer Masks, then they are simple (once you know how of course) and well worth investing an hour or two to understand. 

 

3. Right click - Photomerge - this merges the raws in Lightroom, can give different results and it is not possible to use layer masking to edit as the output is a DNG. If it works I think this is the best method as the output is effectivbely a raw file but it doesn't always work well. It ignores modifications to the raws in LR except for the most selected file so is not so great if the lighting is different across the pano.

 

4. Open the raw images, edit as required, save as PSD or Tiff and then use Automate - Photomerge or Edit - Auto Blend. I don't think there is any difference in the result.

 

 

If you don't use Lightroom, you can open files as layers in Photoshop from Lightroom or Bridge or use an Image Processor script if the files are already open to put them in layers. However, as I said already, I don't see any difference in the panorama output between Automate - Photomerge or Edit - Auto Blend. Hiowever, Auto Blend is really useful for focus stacking.