please help find SoLD area(s) of this image

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

4 hours ago, Julie Edwards said:

(Number of hours trying to solve this problem)

Not spending hours, not spending hour...
(am spending hours processing images ISO 2000 & below)

AND IMC, batch AI Denoise won't save time,

it will replace my current batch denoise scheme;

what it may eliminate is high ISO QC fail...

one of a couple temporary solutions may be to

reset camera minimum shutter speed from 1/60 sec

down to 1/20 sec so that max ISO is ~2000 which

has much-easier-to-eliminate QC issues...

I will have to take ~6 exposures to get one keeper...

This will help, too: left hand on grip instead of camera

[MDM]

35 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

Not spending hours, not spending hour...
(am spending hours processing images ISO 2000 & below)

AND IMC, batch AI Denoise won't save time,

it will replace my current batch denoise scheme;

what it may eliminate is high ISO QC fail...

one of a couple temporary solutions may be to

reset camera minimum shutter speed from 1/60 sec

down to 1/20 sec so that max ISO is ~2000 which

has much-easier-to-eliminate QC issues...

I will have to take ~6 exposures to get one keeper...

This will help, too: left hand on grip instead of camera

 

Let's imagine that you are not doing this for stock but as a paid assignment. Would you really use such a hit and miss methodology? Examining 6 shots to get 1 sharp could be incredibly time consuming and there is no guarantee of even getting one. 1/20s is too slow a shutter speed if there is any movement of people in an image even if you can hold the camera steady. You would likely get no sharp shots at all. 

[geogphotos]

151418 being advised by 3870 about how to improve time efficiency in production of stock images?

 

 😵‍💫

 

 

[MDM]

56 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

151418 being advised by 3870 about how to improve time efficiency in production of stock images?

 

 😵‍💫

 

 

OK I'll break my rule and answer this. A  little discernment would be good  I wasn't advising about stock, I was advising about photograpic technique. I couldn't give a whatever about how many images you or anyone else has on Alamy or elsewhere or how many sales anyone gets. 

 

EDIT: Oh just to clarify. I have put relatively little effort into stock photography which is why my collection is rather small. I have other areas of interest, professional and/or artistic, that I give my time to. Quality of life and quality of what I produce is what is important to me, not mass production of images that have give me no pleasure in the taking or the making. 

Edited March 19 by MDM

[Ognyan Yosifov]

16 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

151418 being advised by 3870 about how to improve time efficiency in production of stock images?

 

 😵‍💫

 

 

151418 regularly runs out of the 150-character capture limit. Time efficiency. Everything comes at a price...

[geogphotos]

1 hour ago, Ognyan Yosifov said:

151418 regularly runs out of the 150-character capture limit. Time efficiency. Everything comes at a price...

 

 

My general advice to those reading is to have a closer look at Jeff's images (and his sales reports). 

 

As far as I know he is the only $20k contributor who has gone public on here - and that is just Alamy earnings. 

 

Then, carefully read the wisdom, that he rather cryptically shares, in his posts.

 

In terms of increasing stock photo income that will be more rewarding than more and more advice about techno specification.

 

 

Edited March 19 by geogphotos

[MDM]

The subject of the thread is a technical question (more of a plea) and the answers were accordingly technical. 

 

Life is short. Balance and harmony are of great importance. Each to his/her own. Do I want to devote my time to copying other people's work? No I have my own work to do. 

Edited March 19 by MDM

[Ognyan Yosifov]

25 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

My general advice to those reading is to have a closer look at Jeff's images (and his sales reports). 

 

As far as I know he is the only $20k contributor who has gone public on here - and that is just Alamy earnings. 

 

Then, carefully read the wisdom, that he rather cryptically shares, in his posts.

 

In terms of increasing stock photo income that will be more rewarding than more and more advice about techno specification.

 

 

Who am I to judge? I just said that everything comes at a price. 

[geogphotos]

40 minutes ago, Ognyan Yosifov said:

Who am I to judge? I just said that everything comes at a price. 

 

Indeed it does. 

[Rebecca Ore]

3 hours ago, geogphotos said:

151418 being advised by 3870 about how to improve time efficiency in production of stock images?

 

 😵‍💫

 

 

Five years difference between when they started.   There's a point where the answer is "get a new computer and future proof it as much as you can."

 

If someone wants to use DeNoise AI, then either batch process and do something else while an older machine chews through the batch, or get as future proofed a machine as makes sense.   Don't keep asking as if someone will cough up the magic sauce that will make a 2014 machine run like a 2224 machine.

 

And asking for advice and not listening to it can be an attention getting ploy. 

Edited March 19 by Rebecca Ore
more just because

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Rebecca Ore said:

Five years difference between when they started.   There's a point where the answer is "get a new computer and future proof it as much as you can."

 

If someone wants to use DeNoise AI, then either batch process and do something else while an older machine chews through the batch, or get as future proofed a machine as makes sense.   Don't keep asking as if someone will cough up the magic sauce that will make a 2014 machine run like a 2224 machine.

 

And asking for advice and not listening to it can be an attention getting ploy. 

 

It could be 5 minutes or 50 years for all I care. My quality of life is not measured out in units of AI (Alamy Images not Artificial Intelligence). 

 

Anyway I'll continue to submit images that I enjoy taking - mostly outdoor nature, geology and plants. All the better if someone buys them. I happen to really enjoy the technical side of photography, taking and processing, and I'm more than happy to share that knowledge with anyone who asks but there is a point where it is time to give up. Might as well bang head off wall if I cared but I don't so I won't do that. A few more brain cells saved for a rainy day...

Edited March 19 by MDM

[NYCat]

Jeff continues to out-work me in spite of some health issues. Bravo, I say. 

 

Paulette

[MDM]

5 minutes ago, NYCat said:

Jeff continues to out-work me in spite of some health issues. Bravo, I say. 

 

Paulette

 

Sure thing. Keep on shootin' - the way to go. 

[Rebecca Ore]

3 hours ago, NYCat said:

Jeff continues to out-work me in spite of some health issues. Bravo, I say. 

 

Paulette

 

That's irrelevant to requesting that someone give him a magic recipe for running DeNoise AI on a machine that apparently can't run DeNoise AI.   My machine can, but it's slow.  Sitting and watching the bar slowly crawl over to finished is  bit boring.  If a machine can't run DeNoise AI at all, then get a new machine if you want to run that.

 

[Rebecca Ore]

4 hours ago, MDM said:

t could be 5 minutes or 50 years for all I care. My quality of life is not measured out in units of AI (Alamy Images not Artificial Intelligence). 

 

Anyway I'll continue to submit images that I enjoy taking - mostly outdoor nature, geology and plants. All the better if someone buys them. I happen to really enjoy the technical side of photography, taking and processing, and I'm more than happy to share that knowledge with anyone who asks but there is a point where it is time to give up. Might as well bang head off wall if I cared but I don't so I won't do that. A few more brain cells saved for a rainy day...

Edited 3 hours ago by MDM

 

I think my fuse for reacting "but really, do I hafta?"  is even shorter than yours. 

[geogphotos]

Jeff,

 

Have you considered the Reportage route for high ISO images.

 

You feel that they are highly saleable, were taken under difficult lighting conditions etc. 

 

If in doubt you could always check with Alamy. 

 

I have used the Reportage route sparingly - it is there as an option for images of value which may fail QC

 

 

Edited March 20 by geogphotos

[NYCat]

8 hours ago, Rebecca Ore said:

 

That's irrelevant to requesting that someone give him a magic recipe for running DeNoise AI on a machine that apparently can't run DeNoise AI.   My machine can, but it's slow.  Sitting and watching the bar slowly crawl over to finished is  bit boring.  If a machine can't run DeNoise AI at all, then get a new machine if you want to run that.

 

 

So just skip over his posts, for heavens sake. I find you abusive.

 

Paulette

[Nigel Kirby]

As a general rule when handholding the camera do not use a shutter speed slower than the focal length of your lens.

So at 1/20th you need to be looking at 16mm or 24mm lens.

 

Nigel

[Steve F]

1 minute ago, Nigel Kirby said:

As a general rule when handholding the camera do not use a shutter speed slower than the focal length of your lens.

So at 1/20th you need to be looking at 16mm or 24mm lens.

 

Nigel

 

Yes. May be partially obsolete now with all the newer cameras having in body and lens stabilisation.

[MDM]

38 minutes ago, Nigel Kirby said:

As a general rule when handholding the camera do not use a shutter speed slower than the focal length of your lens.

So at 1/20th you need to be looking at 16mm or 24mm lens.

 

Nigel

 

As Steve says, with new stabilisation tech this is no longer the case if you have gear that does that. But even with stabilisation, the bigger issue in the case of the image Jeff posted and similar is that using 1/20s where there is a chance of anyone moving is sure to result in motion blur. Shooting weddings in dark venues, I would never go slower than 1/50s with no expected movement of people and faster if possible if there is expected movement. 

Edited March 20 by MDM

[spacecadet]

5 hours ago, MDM said:

 

As Steve says, with new stabilisation tech this is no longer the case if you have gear that does that. But even with stabilisation, the bigger issue in the case of the image Jeff posted and similar is that using 1/20s where there is a chance of anyone moving is sure to result in motion blur. Shooting weddings in dark venues, I would never go slower than 1/50s with no expected movement of people and faster if possible if there is expected movement. 

I wondered about this so I had a look.

2% of my subs are 1/20s down to 1/4s, about 3% up to 1/30s. But my hit rate down there (exposures per sub) seems to be about 1 in 3 or 4. QED.

Edited March 20 by spacecadet

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

trying to answer many things briefly;

to be clear, thanks for responses-advice;

 

"151418 being advised by 387..."
Geog Goood Buddy, you're promoted from me Wingman to me Copilot 😍

" rather cryptically shares..." 👀

wait, well, hmmmm... Paulette? Help !!

 

started OP seeking critique from anyone, learned a lot;

planning to get (not determined yet) new one-of-best laptops offered,

not necessarily Lenovo, even if $4K & up, but nicely discounted, if possible,

by Black Friday or end of 2024, triggered by this forum !!

my ISO 2500 up ARE being accepted at my other #1$$ place;

can't delay AI Denoise forever but IMO during this "infancy" period,

new laptop GPU offerings in Fall 2024 may be worth wait...?

but...IMO there must be simple sauces non-AI ways to pass QC !!
fact: ISO 6400 in use ?10+? years, AI Denoise < 2 years;

so prior to AI Denoise, ISO 6400 has passed QC using Photoshop sliders, no??

alternative: no ISO 6400 has EVER passed QC using PS sliders...really? REALLY !!??

 

"1/20s is too slow a shutter speed if there is any movement of people..."

with tremor, probably, minimum 1/30 sec better, tremor could be typically
90% reduced by April HIFU procedure; sadly tremor defeats camera IS...

people motion can add value to some stock images, IMO...

e.g., server ripping receipt off credit card scanner...

 

"151418 regularly runs out of the 150-character capture limit..."

caption? yes that is volume-time compromise; caption + all other tags
in Description field & searchable, sometimes some in Supertag field;

 

" asking for advice and not listening to it can be an attention getting ploy"
hearing it but not yet acting is time-consuming-learning-curve delay...

Paulette has my back...

 

" I have used the Reportage route sparingly..."

had that folder, never used it, then year+ ago "misused" it & lost it;

today was informed request for it denied...

 

OP image vs. redo OP image below (rubbery face vs. enough detail now or not?)

Manual NR lowered from 90-50-0 to 70-40-0-40-40-40

& added grain-size-roughness 5-50-50

if willing to advise:

a. no significant change, will fail QC

b. moderate change, will still fail QC because:

c. could pass QC because:

 

OP version

 

redo of OP image:

[Betty LaRue]

14 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

trying to answer many things briefly;

to be clear, thanks for responses-advice;

 

"151418 being advised by 387..."
Geog Goood Buddy, you're promoted from me Wingman to me Copilot 😍

" rather cryptically shares..." 👀

wait, well, hmmmm... Paulette? Help !!

 

started OP seeking critique from anyone, learned a lot;

planning to get (not determined yet) new one-of-best laptops offered,

not necessarily Lenovo, even if $4K & up, but nicely discounted, if possible,

by Black Friday or end of 2024, triggered by this forum !!

my ISO 2500 up ARE being accepted at my other #1$$ place;

can't delay AI Denoise forever but IMO during this "infancy" period,

new laptop GPU offerings in Fall 2024 may be worth wait...?

but...IMO there must be simple sauces non-AI ways to pass QC !!
fact: ISO 6400 in use ?10+? years, AI Denoise < 2 years;

so prior to AI Denoise, ISO 6400 has passed QC using Photoshop sliders, no??

alternative: no ISO 6400 has EVER passed QC using PS sliders...really? REALLY !!??

 

"1/20s is too slow a shutter speed if there is any movement of people..."

with tremor, probably, minimum 1/30 sec better, tremor could be typically
90% reduced by April HIFU procedure; sadly tremor defeats camera IS...

people motion can add value to some stock images, IMO...

e.g., server ripping receipt off credit card scanner...

 

"151418 regularly runs out of the 150-character capture limit..."

caption? yes that is volume-time compromise; caption + all other tags
in Description field & searchable, sometimes some in Supertag field;

 

" asking for advice and not listening to it can be an attention getting ploy"
hearing it but not yet acting is time-consuming-learning-curve delay...

Paulette has my back...

 

" I have used the Reportage route sparingly..."

had that folder, never used it, then year+ ago "misused" it & lost it;

today was informed request for it denied...

 

OP image vs. redo OP image below (rubbery face vs. enough detail now or not?)

Manual NR lowered from 90-50-0 to 70-40-0-40-40-40

& added grain-size-roughness 5-50-50

if willing to advise:

a. no significant change, will fail QC

b. moderate change, will still fail QC because:

c. could pass QC because:

 

OP version

 

redo of OP image:

Bravo, Jeff!

[MDM]

54 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said:

trying to answer many things briefly;

to be clear, thanks for responses-advice;

 

but...IMO there must be simple sauces non-AI ways to pass QC !!
fact: ISO 6400 in use ?10+? years, AI Denoise < 2 years;

so prior to AI Denoise, ISO 6400 has passed QC using Photoshop sliders, no??

alternative: no ISO 6400 has EVER passed QC using PS sliders...really? REALLY !!??

 

 

Every camera is different in terms of sensor noise so it is really pointless making generalisations about whether an ISO 6400 image that I might produce on a particular camera is going to have the same formula for acceptable noise reduction without loss of detail as one that you or spacecadet or Steve might produce with their different cameras. My ISO 25,000 might be equivalent to your ISO 6400 or vice versa. 

 

In addition to the basic qualities of the sensor itself which vary massively (dynamic range, sensor size, MP size etc), there is a very strong dependence on how the image is exposed. If it is underexposed at all, that will effectively increase the ISO (and the noise) when trying to recover it. That is the whole idea of ETTR (exposure to the right). 

 

Before Adobe Denoise ( BAD) - could we call this the BAD old days, if I wanted to work on a high ISO image, I would try to get a reasonable balance between noise reduction and sharpening, probably using selective noise reduction in Lightroom (ACR is the same) so I would use little or no NR on areas of an image that had detail and hit the areas with no detail such as skies with strong noise reduction. If it was a really important image, I might do two versions of the raw conversion and blend the layers in Photoshop. Finally, I would downsize the image before doing anything with it like presenting to a client or uploading to Alamy.

 

However, since we entered the era of Since Adobe Denoise (SAD) - we are now approaching the Year 1 SAD - I would avoid doing any of the above time-consuming work and just hand it over to the AI guy who knows exactly what to do with each image from each different camera. 

 

 

 

Edited March 20 by MDM

[MDM]

3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I wondered about this so I had a look.

2% of my subs are 1/20s down to 1/4s, about 3% up to 1/30s. But my hit rate down there (exposures per sub) seems to be about 1 in 3 or 4. QED.

 

My hit rate handheld at those shutter speeds is very low when I've tested it out with IBIS on but it depends a lot on the camera used.