Zebra Patterns

[John Mitchell]

I seldom turn on my Sony a6000's Zebra Pattern setting. I believe that other camera manufacturers offer this feature as well. Does anyone use Zebra Patterns regularly for determining correct exposure -- i.e. avoiding blown-out highlights? If so, any hints on using them? How worthwhile are they really?

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by John Mitchell

[Mr Standfast]

Don't have this on my FujI, just as well because local Zebra's are 18% grey. 

 

I'll get me coat...

[Harry Harrison]

I generally use the Fuji equivalent, at least I assume that it's the Fuji equivalent but there are no stripes, it's always switched on anyway. It's a guide and although it works off the jpeg it does help ensure that you don't have burnt out highlights in the RAW, or at least where they will be and the extent. You quickly get used to how to interpret them and how much you can live with in the skies etc. They turn off once you half press the shutter so they don't distract.

 

Another question - do you need two full stops if you end a sentence with 'etc.'?

 

[Steve F]

No I don't use the Zebra setting, I find it distracting. If I'm not sure about the exposure due e.g. a high dynamic range, I take 2 or 3 pictures with different exposures. Erring on the side of underexposing, because I can recover shadow detail, but not blown highlights.

[Mr Standfast]

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

 

 

Another question - do you need two full stops if you end a sentence with 'etc.'?

 

 

Father Jack: THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!

 

[spacecadet]

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

do you need two full stops if you end a sentence with 'etc.'?

At the risk of ending up in the same position as the Holy Stone of Clonrickert, I'd say no. But I would probably substitute "and so on" or something.

Edited November 1, 2023 by spacecadet

[Vincent Lowe]

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

Another question - do you need two full stops if you end a sentence with 'etc.'?

 

 

No

[Michael Ventura]

I know this feature exists but have never used it.  Seems too technical for me.  I trust the screen on the LCD display to judge the exposure.

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, spacecadet said:

But I would probably substitute "and so on" or something.

 

Thanks both, I normally would also but that always seemed like a cop-out so I thought I'd just publish and be damned.

[spacecadet]

3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

two full stops

Just 9 minutes in ID-11 instead of 6 1/2. Bit grainy though.

[Phil]

I use zebras on both my A7IV and X-T4.   The Sony is mostly used for video clips and the Fuji stills. 

 

Zebras are flexible and probably more commonly used when shooting video especially when capturing in a Log format.  

 

This explains them better than I can:   https://www.adorama.com/alc/zebra-setting/

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Phil

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

I use zebras on both my A7IV and X-T4.   The Sony is mostly used for video clips and the Fuji stills. 

 

Zebras are flexible and probably more commonly used when shooting video especially when capturing in a Log format.  

 

This explains them better than I can:   https://www.adorama.com/alc/zebra-setting/

 

 

Thanks for the link, Phil. That's one of the better explanations I've read. It looks as if a lot of patience is required when it comes to dealing with zebras. 🦓🦓🦓

 

P.S. I've been using the 100 setting on my Sony a6000 as recommended in the Adorama article. Seems to work OK.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by John Mitchell

[Phil]

6 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

 It looks as if a lot of patience is required when it comes to dealing with zebras. 🦓🦓🦓

 

P.S. I've been using the 100 setting on my Sony a6000 as recommended in the Adorama article. Seems to work OK.

 

 

 

John - I think it's just another exposure tool to get used to using.  Like yourself I normally use it set to 95-100 for most of my usages.

 

I've no experience with 4 legged zebras - they may be a tad more problematic than the ones in my cameras 🙂

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Phil

[Allan Bell]

 

I may, possibly, probably, have the wrong end of the stick here but I always have the histogram set up in the viewfinder and on the rear screen to check on exposure.

 

Allan

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Allan Bell

[Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg]

got some real hard core British humor going on here

taking no prisoners, way over all Yanks' heads

👀__ 👀__ 👀__ 👀

saddle up boys, cowboy hats & boots on, head to the rodeo...

Edited November 2, 2023 by Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg

[John Mitchell]

4 hours ago, Allan Bell said:

 

I may, possibly, probably, have the wrong end of the stick here but I always have the histogram set up in the viewfinder and on the rear screen to check on exposure.

 

Allan

 

 

That can be useful, but I think I might get along better with zebras than with teeny weeny histograms. 🕵️‍♂️

[John Mitchell]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

 

John - I think it's just another exposure tool to get used to using.  Like yourself I normally use it set to 95-100 for most of my usages.

 

I've no experience with 4 legged zebras - they may be a tad more problematic than the ones in my cameras 🙂

 

 

That's right. Just another tool in the toolbox. I can see zebras coming in handy with certain types of images. Shall keep experimenting with them even though they don't seem very popular among forum members. They can be distracting alright, but at least they're easy to turn on and off with the a6000. Zebra patterns are a pretty cool innovation IMO.

[Harry Harrison]

Just read that article, it doesn't actually mention that the zebra pattern (or in my case the highlight alert, flashing, no stripes) is working from the in-camera jpeg and so doesn't reflect that the RAW file will have a higher dynamic range. This is why you can learn how to use it quite effectively to ensure that you 'Expose to the right' though there will be some interpretation involved which comes with experience of your particular camera. There is a way to rig it using a custom white balance setting, so-called UniWB, so that it does correspond much better with the RAW flle but since it makes everything look green I would suggest that it's not entirely practical in most situations.

 

This is good for Fuji users, it points out that the strength of the highlight warning will also be affected by the particular colour setting you choose, 'film simulations' in Fuji-speak but all the manufacturers have their own versions.

 

https://fujiframe.com/articles/live-view-highlight-alert-ettr

Edited November 2, 2023 by Harry Harrison

[Normspics]

I use zebras only for when I video something as you can’t bring back highlights in video editing software as much as you can in Photoshop. I have the histogram turned on for photography.

[Allan Bell]

26 minutes ago, Normspics said:

I use zebras only for when I video something as you can’t bring back highlights in video editing software as much as you can in Photoshop. I have the histogram turned on for photography.

 

Good on yer Norm.

 

Allan

 

[MDM]

There is no zebras option for stills on any Nikon cameras I use or have used so I can'r use them for stills even if I wanted to. I don't use them for video either, as the zebras provide only very basic information abput what is clipping or most likely clipping, but provide no direct info about how far from clipping the area might be. You have to change settings to find out. Also the fact that there are no zebras showing does not necesdsariy mean that no clipping is happening, as they just represent an average of all three coloiur channels, so the blue channel might be clipping on the sky, for example, even when there is no indication of that happening form the zebras. 

 

I prefer a waveform monitor for video and I wish that Nikon would introduce these for stills. I don't know if any of the Sony or Canon cameras have waveforms for stills but these are a far better tool for monitoring exposure as they show a 2D luminosity map of the image and highlight clipping is very easy to see.

 

 

[Harry Harrison]

I'm new to waveform monitors, or rather they are new to me since I don't have an interest in video. However it would seem that there are still no cameras available that use them for stills despite the fact that DPReview were proposing that there should be 4 years ago, perhaps there's a technical reason why this isn't possible. They do seem to take up distracting space on screen which I'm not sure that I would like but provided they disappear when half-pressing the shutter that could work, with professional video they can be shown on a separate monitor I think. Certainly they do show the exposure clipping much more graphically and precisely unlike zebras and histograms.

 

In the absence of such technology I find the 'zebras' etc. a useful guide, I mainly use them for white clouds in fact. Some might prefer the histogram but both zebras and histograms are just a guide as both work from the jpeg so both have to be interpreted.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Harry Harrison

[MDM]

24 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I'm new to waveform monitors, or rather they are new to me since I don't have an interest in video. However it would seem that there are still no cameras available that use them for stills despite the fact that DPReview were proposing that there should be 4 years ago, perhaps there's a technical reason why this isn't possible. They do seem to take up distracting space on screen which I'm not sure that I would like but provided they disappear when half-pressing the shutter that could work, with professional video they can be shown on a separate monitor I think.

 

On the Nikon cameras that have built-in waveform monitors, there is a choice to make them large centre screen or small to one side. And there is also a choice to show them in the viewfinder and/or monitor. There is also a button to control the dispay so you can easily switch them on or off with a single press. They are absolutely invaluable for shooting video and a stills version would be superb. As you say, I don't know why they have not made the journey to stills,

 

I first came across waveforms when shooting video with an external monitor (Atomosi Ninja V), which has various exposure aids from the world of video. Best of all is the RGB parade which is a waveform monitor that shows the individual colour channels and is even more useful than the basic waveform. I've been caught out with the basic waveform not realising the blue channel was clipping on the sky - another lesson in a long line of mistakes to learn from in my camera career. Several of these the various scopes as they are also called come from the days of analog cinematography when they were separate electonic devices used on movie sets and the like.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by MDM

[spacecadet]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

Several of these the various scopes as they are also called come from the days of analog cinematography when they were separate electonic devices used on movie sets and the like.

Well, while they would have been, and are, used for multi-camera lineup in video, they weren't used for film, of course, and I can't say I've noticed them being used by DITs on set nowadays, on single-camera shows anyway.

The luma distribution in a moving image can change during the shot because it's, well, moving. That doesn't happen in a still.

 

[MDM]

34 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Well, while they would have been, and are, used for multi-camera lineup in video, they weren't used for film, of course, and I can't say I've noticed them being used by DITs on set nowadays, on single-camera shows anyway.

 

 

OK. I think analog scopes (waveform, vectorscopes etc) would have been used for TV broadcast and analog video. All before my interest in video which is pretty recent but a major passion nowadays. There are all sorts of digital scopes available now from a quick search of the web, external and internal as well as in the NLEs for post-processing.