Need a new iMac

[MDM]

7 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Thanks, guys. I understand more. But neither of you clearly answered my question do the folders on my desktop directly affect the RAM? Are those folders, even though they aren’t open, using RAM? Or is the RAM only being engaged by what I actually have open, such as Internet, PS, Bridge and LR? 
I await enlightenment.

 

Seeing as Mark was reluctant to take the bait, I decided to run a little experiment in the background while watching footie on the TV. I copied around 18,000 full size JPEG images in 35 folders from an external drive onto the desktop of my Mac keeping them in the folders and used Activity Monitor to check RAM usage by the Finder. Here are the results (of the experiment, not the footie). 

 

1. If the images are in the folders and the folders are not opened then no RAM is used. (That answers Betty's question for once and for all). 

 

2. If a folder is opened then the RAM usage by the FInder instantly increases. Closing the folder does not release the RAM. However, the amount used is very small (about 20-30MB).

 

3. Opening all 35 folders at once led to a jump in RAM usage of about 400MB which is not released when the folders are closed. Opening one file in Photoshop and doing nothing uses about 1250MB of RAM. Doing a few operations increases Photoshop RAM usage significantly as Photoshop keeps everything in RAM. 

 

4. Keeping image files straight on the desktop not in folders uses RAM just the same as opening folders.

 

5. Keeping the big pile of images into the Documents folder is the same as keeping them in folders on the desktop. Opening them uses RAM but leaving them closed uses none.

 

6. Restarting the computer releases the RAM and the same increases in RAM usage are seen when opening folders, implying that nothing is cached and it is all held in RAM.

 

To reiterate, the key point is that if the images are in folders and the folders are not opened then no RAM is used. 

 

Presumably the MacWorld article mentioned by Mark is referring to keeping  images outside of folders on the desktop. You would have to have hundreds of thousands of loose images on the desktop to make any significant difference to RAM usage but that would be some messy computer.

Edited April 23, 2021 by MDM

[Betty LaRue]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

Seeing as Mark was reluctant to take the bait, I decided to run a little experiment in the background while watching footie on the TV. I copied around 18,000 full size JPEG images in 35 folders from an external drive onto the desktop of my Mac keeping them in the folders and used Activity Monitor to check RAM usage by the Finder. Here are the results (of the experiment, not the footie). 

 

1. If the images are in the folders and the folders are not opened then no RAM is used. (That answers Betty's question for once and for all). 

 

2. If a folder is opened then the RAM usage by the FInder instantly increases. Closing the folder does not release the RAM. However, the amount used is very small (about 20-30MB).

 

3. Opening all 35 folders at once led to a jump in RAM usage of about 400MB which is not released when the folders are closed. Opening one file in Photoshop and doing nothing uses about 1250MB of RAM. Doing a few operations increases Photoshop RAM usage significantly as Photoshop keeps everything in RAM. 

 

4. Keeping image files straight on the desktop not in folders uses RAM just the same as opening folders.

 

5. Keeping the big pile of images into the Documents folder is the same as keeping them in folders on the desktop. Opening them uses RAM but leaving them closed uses none.

 

6. Restarting the computer releases the RAM and the same increases in RAM usage are seen when opening folders, implying that nothing is cached and it is all held in RAM.

 

To reiterate, the key point is that if the images are in folders and the folders are not opened then no RAM is used. 

 

Presumably the MacWorld article mentioned by Mark is referring to keeping  images outside of folders on the desktop. You would have to have hundreds of thousands of loose images on the desktop to make any significant difference to RAM usage but that would be some messy computer.

I am educated now.  This is something I’ve wondered about for years, and I never seemed to find the answer. I find it very interesting that loose images on the desktop uses RAM like an open folder. I don’t do that. It’s like RAM has been coded to ignore folders until they are open or have been opened.

Another puzzler. I opened some images from 2007 and worked on a few in ACR/PS. I found that some of the sliders were different from what we have today. Most were the same, but there was a difference in the luminance slider, it harked back to being called “recovery.” Considered I opened today’s ACR/PS, I can’t grasp that. I’ve noticed it before while working on older images.

Would it happen because the image had been opened before in the older program? There were some images I have saved the Tiff beside the RAW. But never uploaded, because they didn’t stand up to upsizing.

I opened the RAWs again and developed it from scratch, but still, it had been through the older program.

Now you and Mark have something new to figure out. 😂

But really, you don’t have to. I’ve just been puzzling over it for a couple of weeks since going through old images.

[MDM]

27 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I am educated now.  This is something I’ve wondered about for years, and I never seemed to find the answer. I find it very interesting that loose images on the desktop uses RAM like an open folder. I don’t do that. It’s like RAM has been coded to ignore folders until they are open or have been opened.

Another puzzler. I opened some images from 2007 and worked on a few in ACR/PS. I found that some of the sliders were different from what we have today. Most were the same, but there was a difference in the luminance slider, it harked back to being called “recovery.” Considered I opened today’s ACR/PS, I can’t grasp that. I’ve noticed it before while working on older images.

Would it happen because the image had been opened before in the older program? There were some images I have saved the Tiff beside the RAW. But never uploaded, because they didn’t stand up to upsizing.

I opened the RAWs again and developed it from scratch, but still, it had been through the older program.

Now you and Mark have something new to figure out. 😂

But really, you don’t have to. I’ve just been puzzling over it for a couple of weeks since going through old images.

 

That's an easy one. It is the Process Version for Adobe Camera Raw. At the bottom of the Develop Panel in Lightroom and similar in ACR, it's in the Calibration Panel - Process. The current one is Version 5 but if you have an image that was processed in an older version it will give all the sliders for that instead. If you just change the Process Version to 5 then there is no need to process from scratch but it can be a good idea as the new version is way better and has far more features.

 

To be clear as well, the amount of RAM used by open folders or files loose on the desktop is really negligible unless you have huge numbers of files. 20,000 files would use about 500MB is what I found. I should have done a screenshot as the desktop looked amazing but not something you would want to use.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by MDM

[Betty LaRue]

36 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

That's an easy one. It is the Process Version for Adobe Camera Raw. At the bottom of the Develop Panel in Lightroom and similar in ACR, it's in the Calibration Panel - Process. The current one is Version 5 but if you have an image that was processed in an older version it will give all the sliders for that instead. If you just change the Process Version to 5 then there is no need to process from scratch but it can be a good idea as the new version is way better and has far more features.

 

To be clear as well, the amount of RAM used by open folders or files loose on the desktop is really negligible unless you have huge numbers of files. 20,000 files would use about 500MB is what I found. I should have done a screenshot as the desktop looked amazing but not something you would want to use.

 

 

 

Wow, another puzzle solved! I think I just need to hook up my brain to yours and get a knowledge dump! 😄

[M.Chapman]

8 hours ago, MDM said:

Seeing as Mark was reluctant to take the bait, I decided to run a little experiment in the background while watching footie on the TV. I copied around 18,000 full size JPEG images in 35 folders from an external drive onto the desktop of my Mac keeping them in the folders and used Activity Monitor to check RAM usage by the Finder. Here are the results (of the experiment, not the footie). 

You were obviously more tempted by your own bait than I was 🙂

Excellent. Thanks for posting.

 

Mark

[Richard Baker]

On 05/04/2021 at 10:25, Ed Rooney said:

I plan on buying a 16GB Mac mini when they come out. I need to trade something in so I'll wait till the Apple store reopens. 

 

Liverpool will be where the government will be testing the passport licence idea. It seems to me that I had to get several jabs back in the '60s and '70s to visit certain countries. 

 

Apologies for not reading this entire thread about iMacs. If I may add my tuppenny-worth however, I had the same dilemma last year but it was my son who instantly told me I was crazy forking out for one. Instead, he said (he's not in IT but taught himself home-computing in his late teens, to a very respectable level and reads more than I do on latest trends), consider a Mac Mini and fill it with RAM. This I eventually did (although just 16GB) and I have to say I don't regret this. Also, I may have to temporarily move my office system for a short remote editing session later this year and can move a Mac Mini easier than an iMac, for it do the same job.

 

Of course, by now, you may have reached a completely different conclusion so I hope it's working for you!

[Harry Harrison]

9 minutes ago, Richard Baker said:

consider a Mac Mini and fill it with RAM. This I eventually did (although just 16GB) and I have to say I don't regret this

It's an interesting alternative and as it happens this thread went more or less in tandem with one from Ed Rooney who was also considering the Mac Mini but wondered if there were any recommendations for a suitable monitor, so there is also the question of a monitor that equates to (or exceeds) the quality to that built in too the Imac. Ed decided to get an M1 Macbook in the end.

 

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14246-suggestions-on-a-24-monitor/?tab=comments#comment-282040

 

 

 

[Richard Baker]

7 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

It's an interesting alternative and as it happens this thread went more or less in tandem with one from Ed Rooney who was also considering the Mac Mini but wondered if there were any recommendations for a suitable monitor, so there is also the question of a monitor that equates to (or exceeds) the quality to that built in too the Imac. Ed decided to get an M1 Macbook in the end.

 

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14246-suggestions-on-a-24-monitor/?tab=comments#comment-282040

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply which allowed me to dodge the entire thread, Harry. These dilemmas will keep us on our toes for as long as we're in business.

[Harry Harrison]

1 minute ago, Richard Baker said:

These dilemmas will keep us on our toes for as long as we're in business.

Actually I can probably summarize the thread by saying that Eizo and BenQ monitors were of course recommended, as were just ordinary IPS monitors from the likes of Dell. In fact Ed was limited in terms of where he would be able to source one so that might have been one of the factors that nudged him towards the M1 Macbook.

 

I remember that when the Mac Mini came out I was 'tasked' with the job of increasing the RAM. I actually had to go up to the village hardware store and buy a can opener.

[Richard Baker]

10 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Actually I can probably summarize the thread by saying that Eizo and BenQ monitors were of course recommended, as were just ordinary IPS monitors from the likes of Dell. In fact Ed was limited in terms of where he would be able to source one so that might have been one of the factors that nudged him towards the M1 Macbook.

 

I remember that when the Mac Mini came out I was 'tasked' with the job of increasing the RAM. I actually had to go up to the village hardware store and buy a can opener.

 

Ah, well - I made sure they put the RAM in before shipping it as I suspected that would indeed be problematic. Mind you, there's a huge jump from the 16GB I purchased to the 32 which was prohibitive.

[Betty LaRue]

7 hours ago, Richard Baker said:

 

Ah, well - I made sure they put the RAM in before shipping it as I suspected that would indeed be problematic. Mind you, there's a huge jump from the 16GB I purchased to the 32 which was prohibitive.

The iMac I’ve ordered comes with 8GB of RAM. I ordered 2 16s and will do the replacements myself, which appears to be easy. So I’ll have 32GB. I won’t use the 8, since I read somewhere that the configuration doesn’t make it work better, maybe worse.

 

I know very little about the technical aspects of computers, just what people here tell me, and anything I can dig up in searches.

[CAROL SAUNDERS]

1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

The iMac I’ve ordered comes with 8GB of RAM. I ordered 2 16s and will do the replacements myself, which appears to be easy. So I’ll have 32GB. I won’t use the 8, since I read somewhere that the configuration doesn’t make it work better, maybe worse.

 

I know very little about the technical aspects of computers, just what people here tell me, and anything I can dig up in searches.

Betty I added the 2 x 16 of ram to the already installed 8gb so now 40gb ram and it seems fine though I expect it will also be fine with just the 2 x 16's.  Bet you can't wait to get it, I can't wait til you get it 😄

 

Carol

[MDM]

5 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

The iMac I’ve ordered comes with 8GB of RAM. I ordered 2 16s and will do the replacements myself, which appears to be easy. So I’ll have 32GB. I won’t use the 8, since I read somewhere that the configuration doesn’t make it work better, maybe worse.

 

I know very little about the technical aspects of computers, just what people here tell me, and anything I can dig up in searches.

 

EDIT - just re-read the Apple guidance for the 2020 27" iMac and it does say that for optimal performance DIMMS should have the same capacity so you are probably correct just installing the 2x16. It doesn't say that for the older iMacs such as Carol's.

Edited April 25, 2021 by MDM

[Betty LaRue]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

EDIT - just re-read the Apple guidance for the 2020 27" iMac and it does say that for optimal performance DIMMS should have the same capacity so you are probably correct just installing the 2x16. It doesn't say that for the older iMacs such as Carol's.

There you go, Carol, looks like you’ve done it right as I shall. I’ve done so much reading, and I do try to find answers on my own. Yet there are things I don’t quite understand because my brain doesn’t work that way. It’s strange how our brains work. I can imagine interior design and picture in my mind just how it will look. The colors, the spatial aspects, all of that. It turns out exactly as expected. Yet I’m woeful with technology.

Thanks, Michael. Happy to have you solidify what I planned. Even a blind squirrel (me) can find a nut sometimes. 😊

[Richard Baker]

15 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

The iMac I’ve ordered comes with 8GB of RAM. I ordered 2 16s and will do the replacements myself, which appears to be easy. So I’ll have 32GB. I won’t use the 8, since I read somewhere that the configuration doesn’t make it work better, maybe worse.

 

I know very little about the technical aspects of computers, just what people here tell me, and anything I can dig up in searches.

 

You're correct about adding new RAM and ditching old cards, Betty. Thinking I could maximise the memory, I tried that once and its behaviour was very erratic so immediately removed the older ones from the slots. Also, the brand of cards are important so do check which are best-suited to your Apple model/manufactured date.

[Betty LaRue]

Received a notice this morning that my iMac has shipped. No FedEx delivery date yet.
Now I have butterflies in my stomach about setting it up, how to get things on the old to the new. I need to get online and figure out the safest way.
The things that scare me is when it is being setup, questions are asked with choices. Of course, it’s the technical ones that horrify me. I don’t understand those choices enough that I’m terrified of ignoring one, or making a wrong one.

It’s not even here yet and I need a tranquilizer.

[MDM]

 

31 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Received a notice this morning that my iMac has shipped. No FedEx delivery date yet.
Now I have butterflies in my stomach about setting it up, how to get things on the old to the new. I need to get online and figure out the safest way.
The things that scare me is when it is being setup, questions are asked with choices. Of course, it’s the technical ones that horrify me. I don’t understand those choices enough that I’m terrified of ignoring one, or making a wrong one.

It’s not even here yet and I need a tranquilizer.

 

Relax Betty. It is not difficult to set up a Mac and the key thing to remember is that nothing you do is necessarily permanent. You have a working Mac as it is so you have something to check against for settings. You have your images on an external drive so that is no problem at all. As I said ages back, I don't recommend doing the transfer thing that is offered. It is much quicker and easier to set up from scratch. You can transfer your Bridge templates and any other Lightroom or Photoshop presets easily if you have any. 

 

Besides Adobe CC, what apps do you use? Are you using Big Sur already? 

[CAROL SAUNDERS]

2 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Received a notice this morning that my iMac has shipped. No FedEx delivery date yet.
Now I have butterflies in my stomach about setting it up, how to get things on the old to the new. I need to get online and figure out the safest way.
The things that scare me is when it is being setup, questions are asked with choices. Of course, it’s the technical ones that horrify me. I don’t understand those choices enough that I’m terrified of ignoring one, or making a wrong one.

It’s not even here yet and I need a tranquilizer.

That's great news Betty - you will be fine I'm sure especially with all the help here on the forum.  Just take things slowly and make sure you have all your necessary passwords.  You are lucky you have your other iMac to make a note of various settings.😉  I know nothing about the migration/transfer system with iMacs.  I don't think they work like iPhones and iPads where you put them next to each other and then magic seems to happen😁  It will be fine so don't stress ......

 

Carol

[Betty LaRue]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

 

Relax Betty. It is not difficult to set up a Mac and the key thing to remember is that nothing you do is necessarily permanent. You have a working Mac as it is so you have something to check against for settings. You have your images on an external drive so that is no problem at all. As I said ages back, I don't recommend doing the transfer thing that is offered. It is much quicker and easier to set up from scratch. You can transfer your Bridge templates and any other Lightroom or Photoshop presets easily if you have any. 

 

Besides Adobe CC, what apps do you use? Are you using Big Sur already? 

I'm using macOS Mohave.

Apps?  You want Apps?

Of course, the Adobe CC

Frankly, I seldom use the bulk of what's below There are a few important to me ones.

 

Affinity

Alien Skin

Aquarilla

Art Rage Studio

Color checker Passport

Dropbox

DXO Perspective

Eye-one diagnostics

Eye-one Match

FaceTime

Garage Band

HP easy Scan

HP Creations

iDVD app

Jixi Pack

Lucis Pro 6

Nik Collection

Painter Essentials 5

Perfect Effects 8

Perfect Photo Suite 9

Portrait Pro

psykopaint

Studio Artist 4

Topaz DeNoise 6

Topaz Labs

Topaz Remask

Watercolor Studio

 

[Betty LaRue]

25 minutes ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

That's great news Betty - you will be fine I'm sure especially with all the help here on the forum.  Just take things slowly and make sure you have all your necessary passwords.  You are lucky you have your other iMac to make a note of various settings.😉  I know nothing about the migration/transfer system with iMacs.  I don't think they work like iPhones and iPads where you put them next to each other and then magic seems to happen😁  It will be fine so don't stress ......

 

Carol

What various settings am I supposed to be noting?? 😳

Too late about stressing! That's the only thing I'm really good at and here you want to take it away from me. 😎

[Allan Bell]

7 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I'm using macOS Mohave.

Apps?  You want Apps?

Of course, the Adobe CC

Frankly, I seldom use the bulk of what's below There are a few important to me ones.

 

Affinity

Alien Skin

Aquarilla

Art Rage Studio

Color checker Passport

Dropbox

DXO Perspective

Eye-one diagnostics

Eye-one Match

FaceTime

Garage Band

HP easy Scan

HP Creations

iDVD app

Jixi Pack

Lucis Pro 6

Nik Collection

Painter Essentials 5

Perfect Effects 8

Perfect Photo Suite 9

Portrait Pro

psykopaint

Studio Artist 4

Topaz DeNoise 6

Topaz Labs

Topaz Remask

Watercolor Studio

 

 

CRIKEY! Betty I think you know more than I do. I have never heard of most of that list. Shall have to come to you for advice.

 

Allan

 

[MDM]

25 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I'm using macOS Mohave.

Apps?  You want Apps?

Of course, the Adobe CC

Frankly, I seldom use the bulk of what's below There are a few important to me ones.

 

 

What various settings am I supposed to be noting?? 😳

 

OK. There are several I have never heard of so Allan is not the only one. You might find that some of those apps won't work as only 64bit apps work on Catalina and later. There is no need to worry at all about the Apple apps such as Garage Band and Facetime.

 

CC you just download from Adobe. Make sure you install Lightroom Classic not the cloud version 😀. The rest you can try (Topaz is a download but I think you have old versions so I don't know if they will work). Nik Collection it probably depends on the version. You can probably check compatibility before you download. Nik is now owned by DxO.

 

As far as settings go, the fact you have a working Mac makes this easy as you can just copy across or start completely fresh. Could be Adobe settings such as templates and presets, Safari favourites, email (very easy with gmail and some others). 

Edited April 27, 2021 by MDM

[CAROL SAUNDERS]

Betty - settings, go with what MDM says, it's what I meant but he explains much better than I do😄  Re: your apps - I have Topaz DeNoise 6 and it works fine on Big Sur.  I do understand though that people using Topaz Adjust with Big Sur it no longer works and Topaz haven't got it sorted as yet.  (Not sure if this is in with Topaz Labs).

 

Carol

[Betty LaRue]

4 hours ago, Allan Bell said:

 

CRIKEY! Betty I think you know more than I do. I have never heard of most of that list. Shall have to come to you for advice.

 

Allan

 

A lot of those apps do artistic things to photos. Some I downloaded and they are pieces of cr*p.  I need to weed through them soon and delete what doesn’t work. I don’t want to copy them over if I hate them.

[Betty LaRue]

One question I have. On my computer, if I go to the Adobe site and other sites, when one of them asks for a password, I can autofill it. On a brand new computer that doesn’t have a history, will I have to input a password to each site again?