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I am currently using the Nikon DX cameras but was in the camera store and took a look at the Z system and was wondering if others was using them and what they think.  In the DX series I took a look at the D7500 but I wasn't sure if everything was headed for Mirrorless.

Marvin

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I don’t think you should choose your Z series camera based on your existing lenses. Imagine buying a new car and limiting your choice to a model that could use the tyres from your old one. Yes it is a very definite advantage that Z series cameras can use older Nikon lenses but if you really want to experience the advantages of the Z series, you need to be using the new lenses designed for the cameras. The new lenses are lighter than their older equivalents and optically superb. Limiting yourself to DX format doesn’t make sense to me unless you can’t afford full frame. 
 

I don’t think you could go wrong with the Z6 with the 24-70F4 and adaptor, best bought as a kit as the separate prices are much higher. Nikon have continued to introduce firmware updates for the Z6 and Z7 which have greatly improved the cameras over the original releases. The Z6 kit is currently one of the best deals available for numerous reasons (although the Z5 is currently on special offer). 

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57 minutes ago, Sally R said:

what happens with a DX lens for a DSLR when used on a full-frame mirrorless body. From what I understand you get a cropped view with a loss of MPs

I believe that the camera would automatically switch to the DX mode if you fitted your DX lenses via the adapter so you could still use them, and they would give the same field of view  of course, However the MegaPixels are reduced by a factor of around 2.3, so the 24MP Z5 becomes about 10.4MP, the 24.5MP becomes around 10.6MP. A fresh start with full frame lenses would be a better bet. I suspect that Sony and Nikon are more likely to concentrate on full frame, Fuji will continue with APS-C & 'medium format'.

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1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

I believe that the camera would automatically switch to the DX mode if you fitted your DX lenses via the adapter so you could still use them, and they would give the same field of view  of course, However the MegaPixels are reduced by a factor of around 2.3, so the 24MP Z5 becomes about 10.4MP, the 24.5MP becomes around 10.6MP. A fresh start with full frame lenses would be a better bet. I suspect that Sony and Nikon are more likely to concentrate on full frame, Fuji will continue with APS-C & 'medium format'.

 

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting there is anything intrinsically wrong with smaller sensors (including Fuji of which I have no experience). Just that if one is going over to the Z system from a Nikon DSLR DX system, then it would certainly be worth considering the benefits of full frame and that owning existing DX lenses should not really be a deciding factor in deciding on FX versus DX, as the benefits of the Z system will only be fully realised by using lenses designed for the cameras in any case.  However, owning existing Nikon lenses  could certainly be a deciding factor in staying with Nikon rather than considering Sony or other makers. 

 

There is usually a menu option on Nikon full frame cameras for automatically changing format when a DX lenses is mounted. 

Edited by MDM
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3 minutes ago, MDM said:

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting there is anything intrinsically wrong with smaller sensors

No,  I didn't take it that way, I think using full-frame lenses on the Z6 would be the way to go if I was in that position and though I'm happy with Fuji because of the 'analog' nature of the controls and the compact size of the cameras (and a few other things as well!) I know that they can't match the dynamic range of full-frame Nikon or Sony in situations where that matters.

 

I think the maths is right though - 35.9 x 23.9 = 858 sq.mm. / 23.5 x 15.7 = 369 sq.mm. - 858/369 = 2.32

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2 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

No,  I didn't take it that way, I think using full-frame lenses on the Z6 would be the way to go if I was in that position and though I'm happy with Fuji because of the 'analog' nature of the controls and the compact size of the cameras (and a few other things as well!) I know that they can't match the dynamic range of full-frame Nikon or Sony in situations where that matters.

 

I think the maths is right though - 35.9 x 23.9 = 858 sq.mm. / 23.5 x 15.7 = 369 sq.mm. - 858/369 = 2.32

 

Yes you are right. I deleted my incorrect post and hoped it had gone unnoticed. Apologies. 😀

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I have an Z6 and the image size using my 18-105 DX  Nikon lens is 3939x3624. I didn't have to do anything to the settings of the camera when I put the lens on.

I am using my 200-500 5.6, 105  VR Micro all with AF,  80-200 2.8 push pull lens which becomes a manual focusing lens and  600mm5.6 manual lens. For the manual lens I use the focus peaking feature in the camera plus with any AF lens you get the green in focus button in the viewfinder.

What I like most about the Z6 is the viewfinder, there is so much info in it.   

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11 minutes ago, DerekVallintine said:

3939x3624

That would be 3939 x 2624 = 10.3MP. Presumably the image still fills the electronic viewfinder, something that wouldn't happen with a DX lens on a conventional full-frame Nikon DSLR.

Edited by Harry Harrison
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Just looking at Z lenses it seems they are quite a bit more expensive than the F Mount.  I think I remember where some people were having trouble with the Z adapter for F mount lenses of other brands.  Nikon may not share the lens interface data with independent lens makers.  

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3 hours ago, Sally R said:

This article discusses the Nikon Road Map that is referred to:

 

https://photographylife.com/nikon-z-lens-roadmap

 

The actual Nikon road Map here

 

There are very few new DX lenses on the horizon though that doesn't matter as long as they make one or two that suit you. One advantage of Fuji is that (apart from their higher priced 'medium format' range) they have only ever made lenses designed for APS-C mirrorless. The disadvantage is that very few 3rd party manufacturers make them to fit Fuji, but then Fuji lenses do seem to be very good, and plentiful secondhand if needs be. That Z6 looks very good though.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Sally R said:

My first camera as a teenager was a Pentax K1000 which I loved, so I do have a soft spot for them.

Interesting article, I hadn't seen it. I think it's clear from what they say that it is too late for Pentax to join the mirrorless party and to expect to make a success of it, the idea of them making a film camera seems like a better idea in fact, I still have too many film cameras knocking around. I never thought I'd be an advocate for the electronic viewfinder (EVF) and I got into Fuji through the X100 and then the X-Pro1 because of their optical 'rangefinder style' viewfinders, however the EVF is very seductive and they are very good now. It also means I can use pretty much any film era lens via an adapter.  We're lucky that there are so many types of cameras around now and you are in a position to choose whatever suits you really. I was impressed at how many respected names use Olympus Micro 4/3 for example though there is some doubt over their future unfortunately.

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When I changed my camera a few years ago, the Z system had just come out.  I find the best thing to do - but not sure about now because of Covid is to go into a camera shop and ask to try one.  This I did a couple of years ago when part exing a couple of bodies.  I took my own memory card into Park Cameras in London and they let me loose just outside the shop with an 850  so I could see how I felt about it - I was then able to take the memory card home download and have a think about what I wanted to do.  I did have a quick go with one of the Z's but time was running short.  Also the Z's  had just come out and I think only had one memory card slot whereas I prefer two.  

 

Sally about the same time a friend came over with his XT2 I think it was with a 100-400mm so I could try - it was very impressive and I even got used the electrical viewfinder after about 5/10 minutes but I'm happy with my Nikon FX for now😁

 

Carol

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14 minutes ago, Sally R said:

Not that long ago I found there are quite a few of his images on Alamy

Great pictures, inspirational. I imagine In Body Image Stabilisation (IBIS) is a real boon, the X-T4 now has that.

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On 05/02/2021 at 11:52, Sally R said:

Yes we are so lucky now. Thanks for the link about the users of Olympus 4/3. It's great to see their quality images. I'm familiar with Andy Rouse. He was the first wildlife photographer I got into just before I bought my first DSLR in 2010. I knew he started with Canon and then went to Nikon, but didn't realise he had also gone on to use Olympus Micro 4/3.

 

Not a high profile snapper but local nature and wildlife photographer and author Andrew Peters switched from Canon to m4/3 a few years ago and seems to be very happy with it (Q&A).

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I have two Z lens both cheap, one the kit lens zoom and one other zoom. Amazingly sharp! Really took me by surprise and I am used to shooting with a D5 and a 500 f4 as my most common setup.

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15 hours ago, Simon E said:

Not a high profile snapper but local nature and wildlife photographer and author Andrew Peters switched from Canon to m4/3 a few years ago and seems to be very happy with it (Q&A).

Yes, very impressive stuff, thanks for sharing. Clearly a very hard worker, and very skilled of course. "I can easily shoot 10,000 pictures a day". Cripes. Might be best not buy anything secondhand from him!

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On 05/02/2021 at 05:10, Sally R said:

My first camera as a teenager was a Pentax K1000 which I loved

I loved my K1000 as well - simple, great meter that gave me some of my best exposed slides, and bulletproof - you could bang your tent pegs in with it.  Some of the Pentax DSLR are excellent, but I am too invested in Nikon DSLR to consider changing.

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4 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

Thanks Simon. It's good to see his pictures. Some very nice images there. Interesting to see photographers moving to the micro 4/3 system very recently. 

 

I was looking into the specs of the m4/3 Andy Rouse uses, the Olympus E-M1X. It's a very interesting and unique camera. I watched a couple of field test reviews of it. Although it has the small sensor size, it has a function to do multiple composites to create very large 80MP images. It also has the equivalent of a tilt-shift function built in so that as you are composing your shot you can do keystone corrections in-camera at the time instead of in post-processing. It also has a built in ND filter that you can use in live view while composing, so you can see how images of something like flowing water in a landscape are going to turn out ahead of time. It has two sets of camera controls too so that you can flip to vertical and you can position your hands the same as when shooting horizontal.

 

After reading the interview link you sent I just checked out another photographer Andrew Peters mentions who has some amazing wildlife shots with Olympus gear, including the very expensive 150-400mm lens:

https://500px.com/p/sulasulacom?view=photos

 

 

It's great to know about the lens sharpness quality. I do love Nikon, especially the ease of use of their menus. I've never had to read the manual for my D5200, whereas the menu on my little Sony RX100 is much more complicated. I've just read a review of the Nikon Z50 vs the Nikon D7500. Which is better seems to really depend on the individual needs of the photographer. The review is here in case it is helpful to anyone weighing up the pros and cons: https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/au/buying-guides/nikon-z-50-vs-d7500-mirrorless-vs-dslr

 

I have small hands so I was interested to also read about Sony just releasing a new full-frame camera that is very compact, the A7C. There are just so many options now with such variability it is like you have to research every camera very carefully for its particular set of features to figure out if it meets your needs. I think the Nikon Z6 would be outstanding for landscape, but maybe not the best option for wildlife, at least according to this article in regard to the speed and  accuracy of continuous autofocus tracking: https://dailywildlifephoto.nathab.com/photography-guide/nikon-z6-wildlife-photography/ The Fujifilm XT-4 seems like a very good all round option along with the Sony A6000 series in terms of mirrorless APS-C.

 

 

 

I don't think it is a great idea to judge a camera system or a camera on the basis of great shots by an expert photographer or brand ambassador. A great photographer will be able to get great shots with the end of a bottle. Olympus are going through some mega changes at the moment so I would keep that in mind if considering Olympus. I had Olympus OM SLR kit but they stopped making the OM kit back in the 90s leaving a lot of photographers high and dry with a dead end system. That is when I went to Nikon.

 

I think the future is going to be bright for the Nikon Z system as they are putting a lot into it and some of it is cutting edge at a seriousy good price. As I mentioned above, Nikon have continued to provide firmware updates for the Z6 and Z7 cameras, even since they released the Z6II and Z67ii so one needs to be sure one is reading up to date and unbiased reviews. For example, the AF tracking has improved a lot over the original release. Check this YouTube DPReview of Z6 firmware improvements out (although even that is not up to date).

 

 

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I have not read all of the responses to this thread, but I will say this:  NIKON is the F Mount and any change to that is a breach of a promise

that they made years ago to users.  I was CANON Pro services member 0002, worked with three F-1's and FD glass from 16 to 500 and when 

CANON called me to offer me a complete AF system, with a different mount, I said no thanks and I went back to NIKON.  In other words I have zero interest in the

Z System.  Leitz has always made great equipment, I worked with most of the modern film Leica's from M2's to M6's,  I miss my 21mm 3.4, but $6,000

to $10,000 a body is not real.  I remember when Jim Marshal needed money  for rent and I bought one of his M2's from him, wish I had bought

his portrait of Mick Jagger instead.  

 

FYI: Most of the images that I have on Alamy were made with NIKON bodies and lenses, both film and digital.  I still dearly love my D800's.

 

I have not held or used a NIKON Z system body, but if it is not  "F mount it is not a NIKON" to me.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Chuck

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There is a difference here, Canon came out with the EOS system where none of their existing FD lenses could possibly work, not just because of the different mount but also because of the different flange focal distance. FD cameras and lenses were consigned to history at a stroke.

 

Leica have continued with their M-mount and all credit to them for doing so but you need to be very well-heeled to buy into it. Of course professionals use it but I have a feeling that the majority of their customers are not professionals. However they also have their new L-mount for mirrorless cameras in association with Panasonic and Sigma, and their S-mount medium format range.

 

Nikon had to go mirrorless and so they needed the new Z mount, you can at least use F mount lenses via an adapter. If they didn't then they wouldn't survive, just look at the recent deal between Associated Press and Sony. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

There is a difference here, Canon came out with the EOS system where none of their existing FD lenses could possibly work, not just because of the different mount but also because of the different flange focal distance. FD cameras and lenses were consigned to history at a stroke.

 

Leica have continued with their M-mount and all credit to them for doing so but you need to be very well-heeled to buy into it. Of course professionals use it but I have a feeling that the majority of their customers are not professionals. However they also have their new L-mount for mirrorless cameras in association with Panasonic and Sigma, and their S-mount medium format range.

 

Nikon had to go mirrorless and so they needed the new Z mount, you can at least use F mount lenses via an adapter. If they didn't then they wouldn't survive, just look at the recent deal between Associated Press and Sony. 

 

 

 

Nikon would be heading the way of the dinosaurs if they had not produced a professional full frame mirrorless system to compete with Sony and Canon. The Z mount opens up a whole new world of optics and lens design. As you say, most F mount lenses can be used with the adapter. The IBIS works with older lenses. instantly turning non-VR lenses into VR lenses. Nikon is now at the cutting edge with small camera video as well. The Nikon flash system is totally compatible with the Z system. What is not to like?

Edited by MDM
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7 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

Thanks Michael. Yes I think the future looks bright for Nikon Z. Do you think you will switch over at some point?

 

It is good to know about the firmware improvements. I watched the video link you provided. I also watched another by a wildlife photographer who agrees that the tracking system has definitely improved with 3.0. He still found some problems though with birds in flight (especially initially locking onto the subject), as opposed to birds on the ground. He also found the eye tracking worked well for animals such as his lighter coloured pet cat, but not so much his black cat where it had trouble discerning the face, and that the eye tracking didn't work well when he was photographing a burrowing owl either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJOHTNYhbU&pbjreload=101  But I think these are the kinds of things Nikon will keep improving with over time. I'd be interested to see if they produce a Z version of the D500 which is geared towards wildlife. The Z6 and Z7 look exceptionally good for landscape photography.

 

With regard to Olympus, Andy Rouse is not a brand ambassador as he discusses in his blog post when he switched over to Olympus https://www.andyrouse.co.uk/index.php?eb=1&id=109&fbclid=IwAR1r_BAIM-hscTVOmO2MRauiIFddW1iNxUFVG4n79oggCl8EuDPvBHuvM8Q  He just genuinely loves the system as it meets his specific photographic needs which are all about wildlife. I also watched a video put out by Wex on it which was a review of its functions, which is where I learned about the in-camera live keystone corrections etc. It is probably too big a camera for my hands, but I just enjoyed learning about it as seems quite unique and original.

 

I am already using both DSLR and mirrorless Nikons Sally. I still prefer the DSLR for low light work for the fast AF (e.g. weddings although there are none at the moment) and for fast action (dogs, horses)  for the tracking capability, and will do so for the foreseeable future. I got a Z7 kit just after they came out as I needed a light body and lens for walkabout stuff without a tripod. To be able to shoot confidently at 1/30 second handheld with a 45MP camera is amazing. 

 

I don't know if they will release a pro quality DX. I have never used a D500. However, I do wonder if these are necessary at all, as with a high MP FF camera and a quality lens you can crop to the same size and quality in post. 

 

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54 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I am already using both DSLR and mirrorless Nikons Sally. I still prefer the DSLR for low light work for the fast AF (e.g. weddings although there are none at the moment) and for fast action (dogs, horses)  for the tracking capability, and will do so for the foreseeable future. I got a Z7 kit just after they came out as I needed a light body and lens for walkabout stuff without a tripod. To be able to shoot confidently at 1/30 second handheld with a 45MP camera is amazing. 

 

I don't know if they will release a pro quality DX. I have never used a D500. However, I do wonder if these are necessary at all, as with a high MP FF camera and a quality lens you can crop to the same size and quality in post. 

 

Just interested, do you use your existing lenses with an adapter for the Z7 or new lenses ?

 

Carol

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7 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

I have not read all of the responses to this thread, but I will say this:  NIKON is the F Mount and any change to that is a breach of a promise

that they made years ago to users.  I was CANON Pro services member 0002, worked with three F-1's and FD glass from 16 to 500 and when 

CANON called me to offer me a complete AF system, with a different mount, I said no thanks and I went back to NIKON.  In other words I have zero interest in the

Z System.  Leitz has always made great equipment, I worked with most of the modern film Leica's from M2's to M6's,  I miss my 21mm 3.4, but $6,000

to $10,000 a body is not real.  I remember when Jim Marshal needed money  for rent and I bought one of his M2's from him, wish I had bought

his portrait of Mick Jagger instead.  

 

FYI: Most of the images that I have on Alamy were made with NIKON bodies and lenses, both film and digital.  I still dearly love my D800's.

 

I have not held or used a NIKON Z system body, but if it is not  "F mount it is not a NIKON" to me.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Chuck

 

 

Chuck, I am running over the very same dilemma …

 

Nikon for some 40 plus years, an old lens will fits the latest body, given its limitations of no autofocus, etc.  Nikon is not about a camera and a lens it is about a camera system, is the way I have looked at it over the years, you have future-proofed yourself and update the elements you want, be that lens or body.

 

So like Chuck I am in pickle with the new Nikon Z System …..

 

But I do not want to be anti-progress, if I was I would still be using film  …. But I was never ever going to consider a move from Nikon during the popularity of mirror-less in recent years … none would fit my Nikon System.  Plus, in the back of my mind I had a believe that Nikon would get there.

 

They have with the Nikon Z … I have now bought the Z6 and I will be honest the jury was out for a long time … more than once it was almost sold. 

 

Here is where I am today … recent figures and accounts plus research show that mirror-less will be the future, but I am not sure how long this 'transition' will be.

 

So, I do not see me selling the DSLRs … No, they still work well, I have a range of lenses that cover my needs – but the quality of the Z6 with its weight and speed appeals … the FTZ Adaptor works … from 14mm to 400mm I get can use them on the Z6.

 

For me the Z6 is simply another element in the Nikon camera system … I only have one Z Lens; it is outstanding in quality and I may buy another – if only for the video which it excels at over my DSLR – and the requirement for video is growing.

 

Nikon have long and hard thought about the Z System … it is the ideal ‘accompaniment’ to the DSLR and the F Lens as we go through this transition … for the rest of my working life I can see me using the best piece of kit for the job … be that a DSLR or a Mirror-Less with the FTZ … or a very slowing growing number of Z lenses.

 

Finally, trust me we will not be having this conversation in 40 years’ time.

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