mobile phone images slipping through QC

[Betty LaRue]

On 04/05/2020 at 10:52, Marvin McAbee said:

Not sure why they haven't opened up to Android phones. 

iPhones have one operating system. No matter which model iPhone you have, the app design is the same. It encompasses them all.

 

Android, on the other hand, have many different companies making them. Each have their own proprietary systems. To design for Android, Alamy would have to spend the bucks for each and every Android company and solve any bugs that crop up in the app.

 

Alamy stated something along these lines back when St****mo was first started up in response to the questions Android owners had.

Betty

Edited May 6, 2020 by Betty LaRue

[riccarbi]

Mobile phone images on Alamy? No, no, no! 
I don't give a damn about supposedly good pictures (good, in what sense?) taken with a mobile phone; of course you can take artistic pictures with an iPhone, I remember Andy Warhol taking photographs with a Polaroid SX-70 in the 1980s worthing tens of thousands of pounds today. That's not the point.
The point is that many here have recently complained about Alamy going too "microstock", and suggesting it would focus more on technical quality and professional contributors as a possible cure for falling prices. In order to do that, Alamy should draw a line in the sand, separating casual photographers (who have plenty of web agencies to sell their iphone photos for pennies) from the semi-pro and pro who have historically been its more regular and affordable contributors. Serious photographers do not use mobile phones in their professional work; some "artists" do it, sometimes.

If Alamy removes that line, customers will be inevitably confused and will not understand what might set Alamy apart from one of the many microstock photo services around; eventually disrupting its credibility, business model, and pushing prices further down to MS level. That'd be not my game.

Edited May 12, 2020 by riccarbi

[Matt Ashmore]

1 hour ago, riccarbi said:

Mobile phone images on Alamy? No, no, no! 

 

That horse bolted when they created Stockimo... mobile phone images have been on Alamy for years now.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Matt Ashmore

[Thyrsis]

2 hours ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

That horse bolted when they created Stockimo... mobile phone images have been on Alamy for years now.

Exactly!

I didn’t realise at the beginning that my Stockimo images would be in the main Alamy catalogue. I assumed there would be a separate catalogue. You can only distinguish Stockimo images by their ID. Having said that my last iphone sale made more than our last Alamy sale! 

[riccarbi]

2 hours ago, Thyrsis said:

Exactly!

I didn’t realise at the beginning that my Stockimo images would be in the main Alamy catalogue. I assumed there would be a separate catalogue. You can only distinguish Stockimo images by their ID. Having said that my last iphone sale made more than our last Alamy sale! 

 So all these:

"Guidelines for submitting images to Alamy

....
There’s a cut-off point where the image quality a camera can produce falls below our requirements. If you see the failure reason “unsuitable camera” it’s likely that the camera used will never be able to produce good enough quality to pass our QC checks.

An unsuitable camera is something that doesn’t compare to a standard DSLR
It could be unsuitable for multiple reasons, with the most important being sensor size
Most DSLR’s have sensors big enough to create an image of suitable quality
....
Alamy recommend using cameras with four thirds sensors as a minimum requirement (see below infographic… the sensor in the middle)
....
Forget megapixel count, mobile phones and compact cameras are designed to be small and manageable and that means less room for large sensors and lenses
Almost all compact cameras, fixed lens cameras – SLR-like Bridge Cameras and all mobile phones cannot produce images that meet our guidelines
Some older DSLRs are also unsuitable due to their overall poor quality, small sensors and age
....
We see images from a large range of mobile phones in QC, especially newer models such as the iPhone X and other high-end Android devices. No doubt, mobile image quality is getting better and better, but in relation to a standard DSLR… they still don’t compare." 

Are just BS.

 

Better to drop QC altogether, then. Yet, please note that the rules reported above are not intended just to pass QC, but to submit images that "are suitable for Alamy ".  It's simply ridicoluous to have good photos made with proper DSLRs and lenses rejected because of a hint of color noise, and then see images made with a 1/2.55″ sensor and a $0,3 fixed plastic lens in the main Alamy catalogue (but through Stockimo; hey, you can tell it from their ID....).

And, that an iPhone sale could made more than an Alamy sale is not something I feel very comfortable about, honestly. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by riccarbi

[Harry Harrison]

14 minutes ago, riccarbi said:

So these:

"There’s a cut-off point where the image quality a camera can produce falls below our requirements. If you see the failure reason “unsuitable camera” it’s likely that the camera used will never be able to produce good enough quality to pass our QC checks.

An unsuitable camera is something that doesn’t compare to a standard DSLR
It could be unsuitable for multiple reasons, with the most important being sensor size
Most DSLR’s have sensors big enough to create an image of suitable quality

I've read that page a few times but don't recall seeing a reference to the Iphone X before, I see from the Page Source that the page was modified on 24th Feb 2020 so maybe that was added then? I'm quite new here but like Thyrsis I always imagined that the S images would be on a completely separate site, I was very surprised to find out that they are all on Alamy together. 

[wiskerke]

1 hour ago, Thyrsis said:

Exactly!

I didn’t realise at the beginning that my Stockimo images would be in the main Alamy catalogue. I assumed there would be a separate catalogue. You can only distinguish Stockimo images by their ID. Having said that my last iphone sale made more than our last Alamy sale! 

 

And that's not because you sold your iPhone 😂

 

Do you mean a regular Alamy sale vs an iPhone (Stockimo) sale on Alamy? Or an Alamy sale vs an iPhone sale elsewhere?

 

wim

[Thyrsis]

45 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

 

And that's not because you sold your iPhone 😂

 

Do you mean a regular Alamy sale vs an iPhone (Stockimo) sale on Alamy? Or an Alamy sale vs an iPhone sale elsewhere?

 

wim

 

Yes, the first one.  We only have images with Alamy & Stockimo.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Ashmore]

5 hours ago, riccarbi said:

 So all these:

"Guidelines for submitting images to Alamy

....
There’s a cut-off point where the image quality a camera can produce falls below our requirements. If you see the failure reason “unsuitable camera” it’s likely that the camera used will never be able to produce good enough quality to pass our QC checks.

An unsuitable camera is something that doesn’t compare to a standard DSLR
It could be unsuitable for multiple reasons, with the most important being sensor size
Most DSLR’s have sensors big enough to create an image of suitable quality
....
Alamy recommend using cameras with four thirds sensors as a minimum requirement (see below infographic… the sensor in the middle)
....
Forget megapixel count, mobile phones and compact cameras are designed to be small and manageable and that means less room for large sensors and lenses
Almost all compact cameras, fixed lens cameras – SLR-like Bridge Cameras and all mobile phones cannot produce images that meet our guidelines
Some older DSLRs are also unsuitable due to their overall poor quality, small sensors and age
....
We see images from a large range of mobile phones in QC, especially newer models such as the iPhone X and other high-end Android devices. No doubt, mobile image quality is getting better and better, but in relation to a standard DSLR… they still don’t compare." 

Are just BS.

 

Better to drop QC altogether, then. Yet, please note that the rules reported above are not intended just to pass QC, but to submit images that "are suitable for Alamy ".  It's simply ridicoluous to have good photos made with proper DSLRs and lenses rejected because of a hint of color noise, and then see images made with a 1/2.55″ sensor and a $0,3 fixed plastic lens in the main Alamy catalogue (but through Stockimo; hey, you can tell it from their ID....).

And, that an iPhone sale could made more than an Alamy sale is not something I feel very comfortable about, honestly. 

 

I don't know why Alamy still trundle the line about suitable cameras but.... on...

 

https://www.stockimo.com/

 

It says....

 What is Stockimo? 

Stockimo's an app for iPhone users who love to take photos and want to make some money.

 Where will Stockimo photos be sold? 

We'll sell your photos on Alamy and through its distribution network.

 

And here you will find nearly 1 million Stockimo images,  in theory, all taken with some kind of an iPhone for sale on Alamy:

https://www.alamy.com/search/Imageresults.aspx?CreativeOn=1&adv=1&ag=0&all=1&creative=&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&qt=stockimo&qn=&lic=6&lic=1&imgt=0&archive=1&dtfr=&dtto=&hc=&selectdate=&size=0xFF&aqt=&epqt=&oqt=&nqt=&gtype=0&qt_raw=stockimo&edrf=0&resultview=sortbyPopular&tbar=1&simid=&customgeoip=GB&pl=&ispremium=1&edoptin=#BHM=foo%3Dbar%26st%3D0%26pn%3D1%26ps%3D100%26sortby%3D2%26qt%3Dstockimo%26qt_raw%3Dstockimo%26qn%3D%26lic%3D3%26edrf%3D0%26mr%3D0%26pr%3D0%26aoa%3D1%26creative%3D%26videos%3D%26nu%3D%26ccc%3D%26bespoke%3D%26apalib%3D%26ag%3D0%26hc%3D0%26et%3D0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3D0%26loc%3D0%26ot%3D0%26imgt%3D0%26dtfr%3D%26dtto%3D%26size%3D0xFF%26blackwhite%3D%26cutout%3D%26archive%3D1%26name%3D%26groupid%3D%26pseudoid%3D%26userid%3D%26id%3D%26a%3D%26xstx%3D0%26cbstore%3D1%26resultview%3DsortbyPopular%26lightbox%3D%26gname%3D%26gtype%3D%26apalic%3D%26tbar%3D1%26pc%3D%26simid%3D%26cap%3D1%26customgeoip%3DGB%26vd%3D0%26cid%3D%26pe%3D%26so%3D%26lb%3D%26pl%3D%26plno%3D%26fi%3D0%26langcode%3Den%26upl%3D0%26cufr%3D%26cuto%3D%26howler%3D%26cvrem%3D0%26cvtype%3D0%26cvloc%3D0%26cl%3D0%26upfr%3D%26upto%3D%26primcat%3D%26seccat%3D%26cvcategory%3D*%26restriction%3D%26random%3D%26ispremium%3D1%26flip%3D0%26contributorqt%3D%26plgalleryno%3D%26plpublic%3D0%26viewaspublic%3D0%26isplcurate%3D0%26imageurl%3D%26saveQry%3D%26editorial%3D%26t%3D0%26edoptin%3D%26filters%3D0

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Matt Ashmore

[riccarbi]

30 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

I don't know why Alamy still trundle the line about suitable cameras 

We'll sell your photos on Alamy and through its distribution network.

Maybe because Alamy allow contributors to (legitimately) circumvent image quality guidelines and camera requirements by using Stockimo as a backdoor?

Edited May 12, 2020 by riccarbi

[M.Chapman]

18 hours ago, riccarbi said:

Better to drop QC altogether, then. Yet, please note that the rules reported above are not intended just to pass QC, but to submit images that "are suitable for Alamy ".  It's simply ridicoluous to have good photos made with proper DSLRs and lenses rejected because of a hint of color noise, and then see images made with a 1/2.55″ sensor and a $0,3 fixed plastic lens in the main Alamy catalogue (but through Stockimo; hey, you can tell it from their ID....).

 

I agree it seems illogical to accept mobile phone images into the same image collection (with no clear labelling) whilst rejecting DSLR images for a hint of noise or CA etc..

 

I'd like to see QC maintained and consistent standards applied to ALL submitted images and/or clearer information supplied to customer.

But, for many usages (smaller reproduction size especially on a web-page), newer mobile phone images have perfectly acceptable IQ, and that part of the market is significant. The problem with mobile images is often only revealed when viewing at 1:1 when it becomes clearer that the IQ doesn't match the MP count.

 

Here's a suggestion. Alamy could apply the same QC to all images (including mobile phone images), but the image size requirement (17MB approx 6MP) is perhaps reduced further to reflect the fact that there is a significant market demand for small images. Mobile phone images would then need to be downsized (possibly automatically by the app?) accordingly in order to pass QC when viewed at 100%. 

The customer would then see more realistic information about the 300DPI reproduction size below an image (on the image preview page) as the current information perhaps gives an unrealistic expectation of the quality that is available from a mobile phone image. For example, this is the information that can appear with a mobile phone image at the moment.

 

Image ID: S*****

File size: 

58.5 MB (2.1 MB Compressed download) 

Dimensions: 3613 x 5660 px | 30.6 x 47.9 cm | 12 x 18.9 inches | 300dpi

Releases: Model - no | Property - no   Do I need a release?

 

 

Curiously there seem to be quite a few mobile phone images on Alamy (which aren't panoramas) with more than 12MP (~36MB). I thought the highest spec iPhone camera was currently 12M? Are mobile phone images being upsized?? Or are images from other cameras being uploaded via the S****** app to bypass QC? Try repeating the search in Matt's post above with a 48MB image size filter...  

 

Mark

Edited May 13, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Matt Ashmore]

2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Curiously there seem to be quite a few mobile phone images on Alamy (which aren't panoramas) with more than 12MP (~36MB). I thought the highest spec iPhone camera was currently 12M? Are mobile phone images being upsized?? Or are images from other cameras being uploaded via the S****** app to bypass QC? Try repeating the search in Matt's post above with a 48MB image size filter...  

 

Stockimo is meant to be for uploading images taken on your phone. But in reality any image on the phone can be uploaded via Stockimo, even if it was originally taken on a DSLR and then subsequently transferred to the phone. Maybe people are doing this to avoid Alamy QC. Maybe these are people that have found Stockimo but don't appreciate that Alamy exists. But they certainly don't earn as much for the image sale via Stockimo compared to if they just uploaded directly to Alamy via the normal route.

 

[M.Chapman]

3 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

But they certainly don't earn as much for the image sale via Stockimo

 

What do you base that on? The pricing seems to be the same?

 

Mark

[Matt Ashmore]

3 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

What do you base that on? The pricing seems to be the same?

 

Mark

 

The fact that I get 40/50% for images uploaded via Alamy but just 20% for images uploaded via Stockimo.

 

And also the fact that the Stockimo website says:

 

What share will I get? 

We'll pay you 20% of every sale you make.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Matt Ashmore

[M.Chapman]

3 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

The fact that I get 40/50% for images uploaded via Alamy but just 20% for images uploaded via Stockimo.

 

OIC, thanks for clarifying. There are certainly quite a few wildlife images that haven't been shot on a mobile which come up in your search link above with 48MB filter added.

 

Mark

Edited May 13, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Alex Ramsay]

There are images for sale on Alamy shot with pinhole cameras . . .

 

Alex

[Harry Harrison]

2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

Try repeating the search in Matt's post above with a 48MB image size filter...  

I thought that was strange also, though at least some high resolution images have Stockimo as a keyword but don't have the 'S' ID number. MDM also pointed out that any image can be uploaded provided you do it via an Iphone and I hadn't realised that. That does seem to be bending the rules rather as it isn't what is implied by the Stockimo FAQs, though neither is it forbidden, and would surely be quite easy to block assuming the App includes all the metadata. There are almost 5000 over 70MB though these are mostly panoramics admittedly, but presumably 'in-phone' auto-stitched ones.

[riccarbi]

1 hour ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

Stockimo is meant to be for uploading images taken on your phone. But in reality any image on the phone can be uploaded via Stockimo, even if it was originally taken on a DSLR and then subsequently transferred to the phone. Maybe people are doing this to avoid Alamy QC. Maybe these are people that have found Stockimo but don't appreciate that Alamy exists. But they certainly don't earn as much for the image sale via Stockimo compared to if they just uploaded directly to Alamy via the normal route.

 

 

"We currently don’t accept mobile/cell phone stock photography through FTP or Alamy upload but photos taken on a mobile/cell phone can be uploaded via our iPhone app Stockimo"

 

I don't think that Stockimo has ever been intended to let people upload DSLR images to Alamy through a smartphone. You can use the normal submitting route on the Alamy's main site also using a smarphone and a mobile web browser. If you upload DSLR images to Alamy using Stockimo instead that the Alamy contributor page, there are only two possible reasons: either you want to bypass QC or you are keen to get a 20% revenue share instead than a 50% one...;)

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by riccarbi

[Matt Ashmore]

18 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I thought that was strange also, though at least some high resolution images have Stockimo as a keyword but don't have the 'S' ID number.

 

There are a few images of the stockimo app/icon on a phone screen like this one which would have stockimo as a keyword for obvious reasons.

 

 

But then I guess there's also the case where people have "borrowed" someone else's keywords wholesale and have unfortunately borrowed them from a Stockimo image.

[Matt Ashmore]

2 minutes ago, riccarbi said:

 

"We currently don’t accept mobile/cell phone stock photography through FTP or Alamy upload but photos taken on a mobile/cell phone can be uploaded via our iPhone app Stockimo"

 

I don't think that Stockimo has ever been intended to let people upload DSLR images to Alamy through a smartphone. You can use the normal submitting route on the Alamy's main site also using a smarphone and a mobile web browser. If you upload DSLR images to Alamy using Stockimo instead that the Alamy contributor page there are only two possible explanations: either you want to bypass QC or you are keen to get a 20% revenue share instead than a 50% one...

 

 

Or they browsed the Apple App Store, found Stockimo, downloaded Stockimo, registered (via the app), didn't read the wesbite, didn't realise that they could register as an Alamy contributor and don't realise that they are missing out on a further 20 or 30%.

[NYCat]

I don't know about by-passing QC by using Stockimo. The judging is different but Stockimo submissions can be rejected with no explanations. They are looking for a certain kind of look. Using filters is encouraged. Also, those of us who joined at the very beginning are getting 40% or 50% depending on whether we were already Alamy contributors. I suppose I should be doing more with Stockimo but my iPhone photography doesn't seem to be my strength.

 

Paulette

[Harry Harrison]

19 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

There are a few images of the stockimo app/icon on a phone screen like this one which would have stockimo as a keyword for obvious reasons.

Yes, in fact my spot check was on the first page of the >70MB filtered images and I see that they are in fact StockimoNews with an 'N' prefix to the ID, they don't look like phone images and are very high resolution but they are isolated and not typical. Some of the images on that first page are very high resolution (one is 8000 x 5800 px) but again, they are not typical and I obviously don't know the story behind them. Does the fact that they come at the top of the search results mean they are big sellers I wonder.

[Matt Ashmore]

19 minutes ago, NYCat said:

Also, those of us who joined at the very beginning are getting 40% or 50% depending on whether we were already Alamy contributors.

 

I discovered Alamy and Stockimo at the same time and registered for both... about 2 or 3 weeks after the cut-off date to qualify for the 40/50% on Stockimo sales which is really annoying! Every time I get a Stockimo sale, I keep thinking what I might have got! But I guess they had to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

[Regis]

2 hours ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

But they certainly don't earn as much for the image sale via Stockimo compared to if they just uploaded directly to Alamy via the normal route.

 

 

I have photographs on both Alamy and Stockimo.

My last two sales on Stockimo each brought in for me, more money that the sale I got today on Alamy.

And in the past year that is a repeating pattern.

Once in a while I get a better sale on Alamy.

So it all depends I guess.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Regis
spelling mistake...

[Matt Ashmore]

33 minutes ago, Regis said:

 

I have photographs on both Alamy and Stockimo.

My last two sales on Stockimo each brought in for me, more money that the sale I got today on Alamy.

And in the past year that is a repeating pattern.

Once in a while I get a better sale on Alamy.

So it all depends I guess.

 

But what is your % rate for Stockimo sales? Judging by the fact that you registered on the forum in 2006, you probably are on 40 or 50% so you are one of the exceptions to the point. But for (I would suspect the majority of people) me, I would have earned half as much as you did as I only get 20% .. yet the same image uploaded to Alamy 'normally' earns me 40-50%.