PSD or JPEG in ACR

[geogphotos]

I use the Transform tool in ACR quite frequently. When I have opened and processed in Photoshop and come to Save As the file is either a JPEG or PSD file. I don't understand why sometimes it is one and sometimes the other, even when I think I have followed exactly the same procedure in the RAW processing. This is no big problem just something playing on my mind. 

 

The one practical issue is that when I change a PSD file to JPEG for the final Save this image reference does not then show upon in Open Recent - so it can lead to a little confusion over image ref sequences.

 

I'm curious to understand what is going on. 

[Michael Ventura]

I get the same thing and I don’t know the answer.  I have always just thought it maybe it is how much transforming was done. If fairly little, it defaults to a JPEG and much more, then it goes to the PSD.  But that is just a theory.

[BidC]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

ACR

 

?ACR - Trying to work out what it stands for  ....

[geogphotos]

29 minutes ago, BidC said:

 

?ACR - Trying to work out what it stands for  ....

 

 

Adobe Camera Raw

[BidC]

21 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Adobe Camera Raw

 

Ah Ha ! Thank you ! To be honest, as regards the above I haven't noticed, but I have noticed that sometimes the file will save back to LR snd other times it won't ... it used to always save to LR,  and update the file there. Now it seems to want to do an either or (without asking).

[M.Chapman]

Is it that it sometimes it creates another (invisible?) layer. Try flatten image, then Save.

 

Mark

Edited September 15, 2019 by M.Chapman

[John Walker]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

Is it that it sometimes it creates another (invisible?) layer. Try flatten image, then Save.

 

Mark

 

Spot on Mark.  If you don't flatten the image to a single layer it saves as PSD.

 

John

[geogphotos]

5 minutes ago, John Walker said:

 

Spot on Mark.  If you don't flatten the image to a single layer it saves as PSD.

 

John

 

 

John,

 

Do you know why it is that ACR creates some images as PSD? Are these the ones that have been transformed more than ones that stay as JPEGs?

[John Walker]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

John,

 

Do you know why it is that ACR creates some images as PSD? Are these the ones that have been transformed more than ones that stay as JPEGs?

 

In my experience, all my transformed images save ok as jpegs as long as I flatten the image first.  More than one layer open and it saves as a PSD file.

 

Flattening the image (if needed)  before 'Save' is part of my workflow

 

John

Edited September 15, 2019 by John Walker
addition

[geogphotos]

1 hour ago, John Walker said:

 

In my experience, all my transformed images save ok as jpegs as long as I flatten the image first.  More than one layer open and it saves as a PSD file.

 

Flattening the image (if needed)  before 'Save' is part of my workflow

 

John

 

 

How do you flatten an image within Adobe Camera Raw?

[Michael Ventura]

24 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

How do you flatten an image within Adobe Camera Raw?

 

I don’t think you can until you open it in Photoshop.  

[M.Chapman]

34 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

How do you flatten an image within Adobe Camera Raw?

 

I flatten in PS after conversion from RAW in ACR. If you want to check whether you have got extra layers, then in PS Top menu>Window>Tick layers or click F7 key and have a look. Image is flattened in PS using Top menu>Layers>Flatten image.

 

When I get extra layers I'm not expecting it's when I use the Lens Correction filter in PS.

 

Mark  

Edited September 15, 2019 by M.Chapman

[geogphotos]

Just now, Michael Ventura said:

 

I don’t think you can until you open it in Photoshop.  

 

 

Okay, so John's is not answer to my original question. As I said it is not a big deal and I am happy with what Michael said above about Tramsform going over certain parameters producing a PSD rather than JPEG file.

 

I'm just curious. 

[MDM]

 

13 hours ago, geogphotos said:

I use the Transform tool in ACR quite frequently. When I have opened and processed in Photoshop and come to Save As the file is either a JPEG or PSD file. I don't understand why sometimes it is one and sometimes the other, even when I think I have followed exactly the same procedure in the RAW processing. This is no big problem just something playing on my mind. 

 

The one practical issue is that when I change a PSD file to JPEG for the final Save this image reference does not then show upon in Open Recent - so it can lead to a little confusion over image ref sequences.

 

I'm curious to understand what is going on. 

 

As far as I know, Photoshop will always try to save as the last file format saved as long as that file format is compatible with the image being saved. So if the last file saved was a JPEG, then Photoshop will attempt to save the next file as a JPEG unless the new file cannot be saved as a JPEG where it will offer to save as a PSD instead.

 

The only thing I can think of in relation to newly converted raw files using ACR is that the new file is 16-bit rather than 8-bit. This has to be done consciously in ACR at the bottom of the ACR dialog. I can't think how using Transform in ACR would have any effect on the file format that a file which has been opened in Photoshop is going to be saved. 

 

However, if the file has been processed in Photoshop, then any number of things could make the new file incompatible with being saved directly as a JPEG. It is not clear from the original post if the processing in Photoshop is doing something to the file. 

 

If there is no intention of doing any processing in Photoshop, the simplest thing is to save the file directly from ACR with the numerous options available rather than open it at all in Photoshop,(Save button at bottom left). 

[Betty LaRue]

You say you open in PS. If you do anything in Photoshop with certain functions, like contrast, lighten, curves, etc., PS does create a new layer. You absolutely cannot save as a jpeg until you flatten the image down to one layer. So if your trying to save without flattening, it will revert to offering to save as a PSD.

If you go to the top of the PS page above your open image, you will see the “layer” heading. Click on that and scroll to where you see something about “flatten image” or whatever. I don’t remember the actual wording.

 

I don’t use transform in ACR, but I do think if the correction is fairly major, it will create another layer when you open into PS as some have stated above.

I have the “History” button ticked (in Photoshop) when I set up what panels I want to see, so I can see the two layers there, and there’s an arrow or something at the top right of the History panel that lets me flatten.

Betty

Edited September 16, 2019 by Betty LaRue

[BidC]

13 hours ago, John Walker said:

 

In my experience, all my transformed images save ok as jpegs as long as I flatten the image first.  More than one layer open and it saves as a PSD file.

 

Flattening the image (if needed)  before 'Save' is part of my workflow

 

John

 

I'm going to make sure I do this - thank you !

 

I have also noticed of late, that saving a psd (to work on it later) doesn't always save all the layers separately (ie the work progress at the point of saving) - I've reopened and found a refresh file (albeit with adjustments saved).

 

Does anyone have any ideas ?

Edited September 16, 2019 by BidC

[Phil Robinson]

Is it about BIT depth? I use Elements and you have to change to 8 bit to use the transform tool but grown-up PS might be different. I know If I try to save a file in 16 BIT in Elements it doesn't give the JPEG option. If I change to 8 BIT, it appears.

(Edit - I see MDM above has said the same thing)

Edited September 16, 2019 by Phil Robinson

[MDM]

20 hours ago, Michael Ventura said:

I get the same thing and I don’t know the answer.  I have always just thought it maybe it is how much transforming was done. If fairly little, it defaults to a JPEG and much more, then it goes to the PSD.  But that is just a theory.

 

6 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

 

 

I don’t use transform in ACR, but I do think if the correction is fairly major, it will create another layer when you open into PS as some have stated above.

 

 

I think there is some magical thinking in this idea. I don't believe it is possible and I would love to see it demonstrated. Photoshop never adds an actual layer to a newly converted raw image to create a multi-layered document but what it can do is change the background layer to an ordinary layer if the image is opened as a smart object (shift-Open in ACR). I don't know if there are any other circumstances in which a newly converted raw file will open in Photoshop with a normal layer instead of a background layer but, assuming that there has been no additional processing in Photoshop, then that is the only rational explanation. 

 

The bottom line here is that any file that is open in Photoshop does not have a jpeg or psd file format. The file format becomes relevant when the image is saved and Photoshop will always  default to the last file format successfully saved. If the background layer in the image has been converted to a normal layer for any reason, then the image can't be saved directly as a jpeg so will offer to save as a psd instead if the last saved image was saved as a jpeg. If the previous image was saved as a psd then it will attempt to save as psd - same thing if it was a tiff and so on. 

[MDM]

1 minute ago, Phil Robinson said:

Is it about BIT depth? I use Elements and you have to change to 8 bit to use the transform tool but grown-up PS might be different. I know If I try to save a file in 16 BIT in Elements it doesn't give the JPEG option. If I change to 8 BIT, it appears.

 

 

That is what I said above in my first post but the bit depth for conversion has to be changed manually in ACR - it is not random.

[MDM]

1 hour ago, BidC said:

 

I'm going to make sure I do this - thank you !

 

I have also noticed of late, that saving a psd (to work on it later) doesn't always save all the layers separately (ie the work progress at the point of saving) - I've reopened and found a refresh file (albeit with adjustments saved).

 

Does anyone have any ideas ?

 

No idea - that is very odd. Save your history in Preferences - History Log to Metadata and/or aText File and make sure you have Detailed checked. That way you should be able to see what has been happening with the file as it will record everything.  

[Betty LaRue]

I bow to your expertise, Michael. What I am positive about is that in modern Photoshop, you cannot save a file with layers as a jpeg without flattening first.  I think I remember when that changed. I would do work, try to save, and get a prompt because a layer had been created. Took me a bit to get used to it. That said, I always saved a Tiff first, because that’s what I kept in my personal file system for a long time. I now convert a copy to jpeg for uploading, and keep the jpeg, but delete the Tiff in my files.

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

I bow to your expertise, Michael. What I am positive about is that in modern Photoshop, you cannot save a file with layers as a jpeg without flattening first. 

 

Yes that  is true and I fully agree. In fact that has always been the case as long as I have been using Photoshop (mid-90s) and before.

 

The question by the OP was about using the transform tool in ACR and I can't believe or imagine any way that ACR can add an extra layer to a file during a raw conversion regardless of how much or how little transforming has been done. That makes no sense. Of course if the OP has done some extra work in Photoshop which adds a layer or turns the background layer into a normal layer, then the image needs to be flattened first or it is not possible to save automatically as JPEG. I wonder if sufficient information has been provided by the OP in fact.

 

EDIT - if anyone has an explanation as to why and when a newly opened raw file gets a normal rather than a background layer, then I am happy to be corrected. That is the way to learn.😀

Edited September 16, 2019 by MDM

[M.Chapman]

2 hours ago, MDM said:

EDIT - if anyone has an explanation as to why and when a newly opened raw file gets a normal rather than a background layer, then I am happy to be corrected. That is the way to learn.😀

 

The only way I can create something that might be similar to the OP behaviour is as follows.

 

Open Raw file in PS ACR

Click "Open Image"

This gives a 16 bit image in PS with one layer called "Background".

Image can be saved as jpg by default.

However, try clicking Filter>Lens correction....  (Note the Layer has now become "Layer 0")

Click OK to make lens correction

Now try saving, note that the default file type has changed to PSD. Why? There's only one layer visible.

But... Layer>Flatten image is no longer greyed out, suggesting that there is more than one layer.

Flattening the image allows saving as jpg by default again.

 

Mark

Edited September 16, 2019 by M.Chapman

[MDM]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

 

The only way I can create something that might be similar to the OP behaviour is as follows.

 

Open Raw file in PS ACR

Click "Open Image"

This gives a 16 bit image in PS with one layer called "Background".

Image can be saved as jpg by default.

However, try clicking Filter>Lens correction....  (Note the Layer has now become "Layer 0")

Click OK to make lens correction

Now try saving, note that the default file type has changed to PSD. Why? There's only one layer visible.

But... Layer>Flatten image is no longer greyed out, suggesting that there is more than one layer.

Flattening the image allows saving as jpg by default again.

 

Mark

 

Any document withput a background layer can be flattened. It doesn't mean there is more than one layer. Flattening the image is one way of changing a normal layer to a background layer, another is simply to select the Layer 0 and hit the New Background from Layer command. And there are various ways of changing the background layer to a normal layer (Layer 0) but there is no info from the OP about what he does then he says processed in Photoshop. 

 

I only interjected here to argue against the idea that the amount of transformation applied in ACR causes a raw document to open with a normal layer (Layer 0) rather than a background layer as I can't envisage any way that could happen. Yet another impossible thing to digest before breakfast but hey - who knows ? I await enlightenment. 🤔😀

Edited September 16, 2019 by MDM

[sb photos]

6 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

The only way I can create something that might be similar to the OP behaviour is as follows.

 

Open Raw file in PS ACR

Click "Open Image"

This gives a 16 bit image in PS with one layer called "Background".

Image can be saved as jpg by default.

However, try clicking Filter>Lens correction....  (Note the Layer has now become "Layer 0")

Click OK to make lens correction

Now try saving, note that the default file type has changed to PSD. Why? There's only one layer visible.

But... Layer>Flatten image is no longer greyed out, suggesting that there is more than one layer.

Flattening the image allows saving as jpg by default again.

 

Mark

 

This is the most common reason for me to flatten an image.