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Commission change - James West comments

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22 minutes ago, Duncan_Andison said:

 If you tell people what you want to hear, well, that's all your going to hear.

 

I think you may have just contradicted yourself? Exactly, if Alamy want good behaviour, they have more publicly encourage it. The trick is having a ranking system without loopholes in it.

 

Mark

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10 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I think you may have just contradicted yourself? Exactly, if Alamy want good behaviour, they have more publicly encourage it. The trick is having a ranking system without loopholes in it.

 

Mark

 

No. The problem you're facing / confusing is the difference between search scorecard and search policy. Two entirely separate things. The scorecard will rank images based on their performance, history, age and other AI learning variables. Policy would be.... images need to be the correct size, right cameras, color space, must be keyword and have all required releases etc

 

Contributors need to know the policy but not the scorecard. Good behaviour will be following policy and it is not expected for contributors to understand or, need to learn all variables in a scorecard design.

Edited by Duncan_Andison
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Doesn't the "Click Through Rate" already do quite a good job in that regard?

The CTR punishes keyword spamming for example. If you use keywords that do not really describe the image, your image will appear in the results, but people will not click on it. The same happens with low quality photos. Avoiding duplicates also increases your CTR.

My CTR usually is more than twice as high as the Alamy average. So it seems I might do something right.

Edited by Skyscraperfan
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10 minutes ago, Skyscraperfan said:

Doesn't the "Click Through Rate" already do quite a good job in that regard?

The CTR punishes keyword spamming for example. If you use keywords that do not really describe the image, your image will appear in the results, but people will not click on it. The same happens with low quality photos. Avoiding duplicates also increases your CTR.

My CTR usually is more than twice as high as the Alamy average. So it seems I might do something right.

How's your conversion rate? Sales / zooms or sales / views.

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8 minutes ago, Skyscraperfan said:

Doesn't the "Click Through Rate" already do quite a good job in that regard?

The CTR punishes keyword spamming for example. If you use keywords that do not really describe the image, your image will appear in the results, but people will not click on it. The same happens with low quality photos. Avoiding duplicates also increases your CTR.

My CTR usually is more than twice as high as the Alamy average. So it seems I might do something right.

 

That's true, I just thought it would also be useful to add or publicise if Alamy Rank is also based on revenue or sales divided by the total number of images in one's portfolio to strengthen the incentives to not upload duplicate or lower quality images.

 

Mark

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13 minutes ago, Skyscraperfan said:

Doesn't the "Click Through Rate" already do quite a good job in that regard?

The CTR punishes keyword spamming for example. If you use keywords that do not really describe the image, your image will appear in the results, but people will not click on it. The same happens with low quality photos. Avoiding duplicates also increases your CTR.

My CTR usually is more than twice as high as the Alamy average. So it seems I might do something right.

 

I'd imagine CTR will be one of the variables in a search. As to what the weighting of that variable, only Alamy will know.

 

This is the thing. A lot of the variables in a search algorithm will be a numerical value. Image views - what % of images views of this image result in sales.... what % of the sales were editorial/commercial.... is the client an editorial / commercial client..... and so on and so on. To help get the right image in front of the client there will be many of these types of questions being asked that will result in the right image landing in front of the right client.... or at least, that is the goal. If contributors know the variables then they can influence the results rather than relying on the images previous performance / history as well as the clients buying patterns determining the final position.

 

Every contributor wants to be at the top of the search so there has to be way to determine the position of each image and this will inevitably be based on image performance and client needs/history... a scorecard will use a selection of variables that will do this form them.

 

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14 minutes ago, Duncan_Andison said:

 

No. The problem you're facing / confusing is the difference between search scorecard and search policy. Two entirely separate things. The scorecard will rank images based on their performance, history, age and other AI learning variables. Policy would be.... images need to be the correct size, right cameras, color space, must be keyword and have all required releases etc

 

Contributors need to know the policy but not the scorecard. Good behaviour will be following policy and it is not expected for contributors to understand or, need to learn all variables in a scorecard design.

 

I think we're sort of on the same page then... A key difference between a credit rating and Alamy Rank is that a Credit rating agency is presumably only interested in ensuring an accurate rating of "credit worthiness". They have no interest in improving the credit worthiness of members of the public.

 

Alamy Rank also needs to accurately rate the "quality or value" of a contributor. But it is in Alamy's interests encourage their contributors to improve their rating. Hence I believe it's in their interest to disclose what factors affect a contributor's Alamy Rank. 

 

Mark.

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Just now, M.Chapman said:

 

I think we're sort of on the same page then... A key difference between a credit rating and Alamy Rank is that a Credit rating agency is presumably only interested in ensuring an accurate rating of "credit worthiness". They have no interest in improving the credit worthiness of members of the public.

 

Alamy Rank also needs to accurately rate the "quality or value" of a contributor. But it is in Alamy's interests encourage their contributors to improve their rating. Hence I believe it's in their interest to disclose what factors affect a contributor's Alamy Rank. 

 

Mark.

 

Exactly, but that should be by submitting better quality images with better quality keyboarding etc rather than trying to workout % of this multiplied by this/ that and the other over time with a weighting of XYZ subject to client needs.

 

As photographers, we should focus on the product and how we keyword it. 

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13 minutes ago, Martin Carlsson said:

How's your conversion rate? Sales / zooms or sales / views.

 

Where can I see that? Alamy only shows me data from this year? And the "Your Images" section is even more limited. Wasn't it possible to see old data there? Now you can only go back to "last month".

Edited by Skyscraperfan

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3 minutes ago, Duncan_Andison said:

 

Exactly, but that should be by submitting better quality images with better quality keyboarding etc rather than trying to workout % of this multiplied by this/ that and the other over time with a weighting of XYZ subject to client needs.

 

As photographers, we should focus on the product and how we keyword it. 

 

I still think it would be useful to give some measure of how important Alamy Rank is and what factors influence it (in percentages for example). If Alamy Rank only has a 1% effect (versus Tags, Captions, etc) then I wouldn't bother, but if it's a 50% effect I take notice...

 

Mark

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4 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Only if there are sufficient incentives to do so and to cover costs. 

 

Haha... yeah, exactly. I try to work on a "zero cost to shoot" policy. Of course, I've invested in various pieces of software for motion/stills graphics etc but once they've been paid for, time is my main expense. A few props here and there and that's it. I would never pay to go to XYZ to just to take photos for stock. Takes too long to recoup costs before making a profit.

 

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My costs are tens of dollars per image and that does not even include the camera gear. The problem is that my subjects (skyscrapers) are far away from the place I live. So I already have the feeling that my images have to be more expensive because they were so expensive to produce. I would not suggest different prices for images though, but my high costs explain my unwillingness to accept another commission cut.

Perhaps I should switch to taking macro shots of fruits and vegetables. I could even eat those after the photoshoot :-)

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11 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Isn't this the conundrum that Alamy and its contributors have to grapple with. Everybody says that they want high quality images - and photographers are keen to produce them - but nobody is prepared to pay properly for them! Cutting commission at a time of falling fees doesn't overcome this problem. 

 

Very much so. When it comes to illustrations, motion graphics etc I can produce imagery that is of a very high standard but after software, only cost is time. This of course is more of a commercial rather than editorial imagery though and, why for the most part I only submit some stuff here.

 

Edit... I think we maybe moving away from the original topic (regarding scorecards etc) I'd hate for this to be closed down 

Edited by Duncan_Andison

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2 hours ago, Skyscraperfan said:

 

Where can I see that? Alamy only shows me data from this year? And the "Your Images" section is even more limited. Wasn't it possible to see old data there? Now you can only go back to "last month".

 

By keeping stats on your numbers over time using sales data and Alamy Measures. I do it by month by month - views, zooms, number of sales, total net sales values, portfolio size changes (how many I upload) etc. I do this pretty much everywhere where I license images and video - tells a lot, statistics is a powerful thing and works great as guide to ensure you spend your time right/wisely.

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1 hour ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

By keeping stats on your numbers over time using sales data and Alamy Measures. I do it by month by month - views, zooms, number of sales, total net sales values, portfolio size changes (how many I upload) etc. I do this pretty much everywhere where I license images and video - tells a lot, statistics is a powerful thing and works great as guide to ensure you spend your time right/wisely.


Actually I track quite a lot in my life. For example anything I have eaten since 2011. I did not care a lot about the stats at Alamy though, as long as I received my fair share of the sale price. I check quite often for new sales though, as I have many ideas what do to with that money.

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50 minutes ago, Skyscraperfan said:


Actually I track quite a lot in my life. For example anything I have eaten since 2011. I did not care a lot about the stats at Alamy though, as long as I received my fair share of the sale price. I check quite often for new sales though, as I have many ideas what do to with that money.

 

Why?!

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I just wish they would get a move on and make an announcement so we can get on with uploading/finding elsewhere/getting our life back.

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Just a warning for anyone considering ending their contract with Alamy. If any of your images have been downloaded they can be licenced for up to two years after deletion and that any image that has been licenced can be re-licenced indefinitely. (if it's in the context of the original licence).

 

So much for terminating the contract then.

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1 hour ago, BobD said:

I just wish they would get a move on and make an announcement so we can get on with uploading/finding elsewhere/getting our life back.

+1
I have now finished transferring a significant amount of my Alamy port to other outlets - so, in theory, I should be planning a couple of shooting sessions.  Now not only do I have its cold, its wet, the light is horrible (I am not set up for inside shooting yet),  everyone is going nuts about Christmas, my son has nicked the quick release plate for my tripod, and housework needs doing as impediments to going out and actually doing something but also what the hell am I going to do with the images?  I have suspended uploading here - I do not particularly want to give priority to other places - at least not yet - and saving up huge numbers to be uploaded at once does not appeal because of all the keywording etc at once that means.

Ah well - Saturday I have football  (possibly before then as well but nobody has told me lol) and Boxing day there is the hunt in the morning followed by football in the afternoon - best of all only 5 days until the days start lengthening again

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I don't like the idea of 50/50 exclusive, 40/60 non-exclusive because I have some of my Alamy images also placed with other non-exclusive agencies, and trying to sort through 9,000+ photos to see which is which is going to take so many hours it wouldn't even be worth doing it. :( 

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Seems like you guys are investing a lot of time into thinking about how Alamy could do things better.

 

Do you really think your suggestions will have any impact? I'm not trying to be negative, just honestly trying to gauge whether it's really worth any effort.

 

Sure, voice your unhappiness and all, but surely your time could be better spent looking at your alternatives?

 

Thankfully I have a small port here, and my intention originally was to just list everything on Alamy, cause, if I'm honest, I was being lazy.

 

I have since applied to two mid-stock agencies, and made the decision that I won't be avoiding microstock altogether.

 

I will continue to list images on Alamy, but I have no intention  of going exclusive here any more.

 

There are, however, images I would like removed now due to this shift in contract, rather than have a 6 month wait.

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26 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

+1
I have now finished transferring a significant amount of my Alamy port to other outlets - so, in theory, I should be planning a couple of shooting sessions.  Now not only do I have its cold, its wet, the light is horrible (I am not set up for inside shooting yet),  everyone is going nuts about Christmas, my son has nicked the quick release plate for my tripod, and housework needs doing as impediments to going out and actually doing something but also what the hell am I going to do with the images?  I have suspended uploading here - I do not particularly want to give priority to other places - at least not yet - and saving up huge numbers to be uploaded at once does not appeal because of all the keywording etc at once that means.

Ah well - Saturday I have football  (possibly before then as well but nobody has told me lol) and Boxing day there is the hunt in the morning followed by football in the afternoon - best of all only 5 days until the days start lengthening again

 

Where are you re-homing them images?

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3 minutes ago, chris_rabe said:

Seems like you guys are investing a lot of time into thinking about how Alamy could do things better.

 

Do you really think your suggestions will have any impact? I'm not trying to be negative, just honestly trying to gauge whether it's really worth any effort.

 

Sure, voice your unhappiness and all, but surely your time could be better spent looking at your alternatives?

 

Thankfully I have a small port here, and my intention originally was to just list everything on Alamy, cause, if I'm honest, I was being lazy.

 

I have since applied to two mid-stock agencies, and made the decision that I won't be avoiding microstock altogether.

 

I will continue to list images on Alamy, but I have no intention  of going exclusive here any more.

 

There are, however, images I would like removed now due to this shift in contract, rather than have a 6 month wait.

For those of us who have thousands of images placed with Alamy it is a pretty big deal. I don't know if our suggestions will have impact but I also don't want to sit by silently, because I have a lot invested here. Removing or placing the photos elsewhere when you are dealing with so many will require a huge investment of time.  So, whether it makes an impact or not, I feel it's important for our voices to be heard.

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1 hour ago, JeffGreenberg said:

Another problem with exclu-50/50 nonexclu-40/60:

 

say one has 33% of their Alamy images at other sites,

& one wants ALL of those images to remain 50/50 on Alamy,

so they reprocess those 33% images in an attempt to make

them different enough to be exclu-50/50 on Alamy...

does adding +20 Saturation work?

subtracting -50 Saturation?

some other process?

(certainly converting color to b&w, but latter = reduced salability, IMO)

where's the line between still identical & non-identical?

similar & non-similar?

 

someone sell me an app that converts 47K images

into still-salable no-longer-the-same images !!!!!

 

What you are suggesting would not work.

A different agency than Alamy once defined it to me as any images that looked like they were shot in the same shooting session, were considered identical.

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7 minutes ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

Where are you re-homing them images?

Uh DT SS

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