Printing photos at home or in the office

[Allan Bell]

1 hour ago, TeeCee said:

Ditto to this. Whilst I managed to achieve high print quality - the darned thing was always running out of one ink or another at just the wrong time, gave up out of sheer frustration.
Nowadays, on the extremely rare occasion I need a print,  I upload it to Colorworld in North Shields, utterly excellent lab, who print and send it back to me in next to no time.

 

1 hour ago, Richard Baker said:

 

They're very reasonable prices! I use theprintspace in Hoxton, London. But we seem to have digressed on this thread - sorry.

 

Thank you both for the links. Not looked yet but I am sure when I do there will be something of interest in there for me.

 

Allan

 

 

[Martin Carlsson]

Loads of info regarding longevity for papers and inks:

 

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

 

For example the Canson Infinity paper

 

http://www.canson-infinity.com/sites/default/files/wir_canson_2015_10_04.pdf

[Inchiquin]

2 hours ago, MDM said:

 

There is no way you will get anywhere within an order of magnitude of 160 A3 (or A4 for that matter) photographic prints from a set of 12.5ml cartridges

 

 

This is why I use Marrutt inks.

 

Set of 8 Epson 13ml cartridges for R1800: £130

 

Set of 8 Marrutt 125ml bottles with refillable cartridges for R1800: £185

 

It's an absolute no-brainer.

 

Alan

[MDM]

17 minutes ago, Inchiquin said:

 

This is why I use Marrutt inks.

 

Set of 8 Epson 13ml cartridges for R1800: £130

 

Set of 8 Marrutt 125ml bottles with refillable cartridges for R1800: £185

 

It's an absolute no-brainer.

 

Alan

 

You are right of course and I've been seriously considering this but changing is quite a big deal for me as I have a very solid colour-managed workflow which I am reluctant to change and I would need to use up my existing Epson inks first. I use Permajet and they have only recently introduced refillable cartridges for my printer which is what I would want, not the thing that sits on the desktop. I will probably change in due course. I have a big stock of Permajet papers as well so won't be moving to Marrutt. 

[Allan Bell]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Yes it is expensive - more expensive than pro-lab prices. As was said above, printing a lot in one go is more cost-effective. 

 

 

Well you know the old saying - if it's too good to be true and so on .........There is no way you will get anywhere within an order of magnitude of 160 A3 (or A4 for that matter) photographic prints from a set of 12.5ml cartridges. It is always difficult to estimate because inks get used at different rates depending on what one is printing but I would guess that I am paying £2.50-3.00 for the ink for an A4 print using Epson own ink on the SC-P600. 

 

 

 

For starters the ink cartridges for the Canon Pixma Pro - 10S are 14ml. Next........

 

From Canons website. Canon Pixma Pro - 10S

Ink Tanks Life/A3+ photo
Photo Black:                45 photos*
Matte Black:              238 photos*
Grey:                              31 photos*
Cyan:                             75 photos*
Magenta:                      83 photos*
Yellow:                          83 photos*
Photo Cyan:                  86 photos*
Photo Magenta:           69 photos*
Red:                             132 photos*
Chroma Optimiser:      31 photos*
                            *EstimatedSupplemental Yield
                        (*Whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

Taking mean of 87.3 photos/tank
Cost per set of 10 cartridges = £100 (from Premier Ink) a saving of £49.91 (YES these are the originals NOT other makes compatibles).

 

Then £100/87.3 photos = £1.15/ A3+photo    (Sorry I mislead everyone. The £0.60/photo was for the A4 size).

Still less than half the price of the cost of an Epson print. NOTE If I did not use the Chroma Optimiser the cost would be even less.

 

The A3+ paper I am thinking of using (Canson Infinity Rag Photographique 310) costs £99.66/pack 25sheets = £3.99/sheet.

For a cost of £5.14 I can have an A3+ print.

 

What would it cost from a lab?

 

Allan

 

 

[Allan Bell]

3 hours ago, Martin Carlsson said:

Loads of info regarding longevity for papers and inks:

 

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

 

For example the Canson Infinity paper

 

http://www.canson-infinity.com/sites/default/files/wir_canson_2015_10_04.pdf

 

Thank you for those very interesting links Martin.

 

It is interesting to note that permeance of image Canson papers with Canon inks is much longer than with Epson inks.

 

Allan

 

 

[Allan Bell]

6 hours ago, aphperspective said:

Waving arms madly in Skibb !!, you and a hundred others then. Looking forward to it probhably the only one in the place with with as canon camera on the table. 

 

6 hours ago, aphperspective said:

Waving arms madly in Skibb !!, you and a hundred others then. Looking forward to it probhably the only one in the place with with as canon camera on the table. 

 

YAY! It looks like we have the beginnings of an Irish contributors group.

 

Could become like our Cambridge contributors group which has around 12 to 13 members who meet about every 3 to 4 months over a bite to eat and a drink and discuss all things Alamy and photographic, plus what ever is news at the time.

 

Not everyone can turn up at the same time but we usually have 6 or 8 at the meets.

 

Good luck to the Irish contingent.

 

Allan

 

 

[aphperspective]

35 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

 

YAY! It looks like we have the beginnings of an Irish contributors group.

 

Could become like our Cambridge contributors group which has around 12 to 13 members who meet about every 3 to 4 months over a bite to eat and a drink and discuss all things Alamy and photographic, plus what ever is news at the time.

 

Not everyone can turn up at the same time but we usually have 6 or 8 at the meets.

 

Good luck to the Irish contingent.

 

Allan

 

 

Thanks for that Alan every things got to start somewhere and its only a small detail but me and andy both english. 

[Allan Bell]

26 minutes ago, aphperspective said:

Thanks for that Alan every things got to start somewhere and its only a small detail but me and andy both english. 

 

Sorry I was not implying nationality just that there could be a group in Ireland.

 

Allan

 

 

[aphperspective]

1 minute ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Sorry I was not implying nationality just that there could be a group in Ireland.

 

Allan

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Sorry I was not implying nationality just that there could be a group in Ireland.

 

Allan

 

 

And i was only joking Alan and yes it would be a start, must nice to meet in a group and kick a few ideas around.

Andy

[TeeCee]

1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

 

For starters the ink cartridges for the Canon Pixma Pro - 10S are 14ml. Next........

 

From Canons website. Canon Pixma Pro - 10S

Ink Tanks Life/A3+ photo
Photo Black:                45 photos*
Matte Black:              238 photos*
Grey:                              31 photos*
Cyan:                             75 photos*
Magenta:                      83 photos*
Yellow:                          83 photos*
Photo Cyan:                  86 photos*
Photo Magenta:           69 photos*
Red:                             132 photos*
Chroma Optimiser:      31 photos*
                            *EstimatedSupplemental Yield
                        (*Whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

Taking mean of 87.3 photos/tank
Cost per set of 10 cartridges = £100 (from Premier Ink) a saving of £49.91 (YES these are the originals NOT other makes compatibles).

 

Then £100/87.3 photos = £1.15/ A3+photo    (Sorry I mislead everyone. The £0.60/photo was for the A4 size).

Still less than half the price of the cost of an Epson print. NOTE If I did not use the Chroma Optimiser the cost would be even less.

 

The A3+ paper I am thinking of using (Canson Infinity Rag Photographique 310) costs £99.66/pack 25sheets = £3.99/sheet.

For a cost of £5.14 I can have an A3+ print.

 

What would it cost from a lab?

 

Allan

 

 

£3.57 plus postage, though cheaper if ordering more than a one-off print.
https://www.colorworldimaging.co.uk/print-services/digital-prints

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

 

For starters the ink cartridges for the Canon Pixma Pro - 10S are 14ml. Next........

 

From Canons website. Canon Pixma Pro - 10S

Ink Tanks Life/A3+ photo
Photo Black:                45 photos*
Matte Black:              238 photos*
Grey:                              31 photos*
Cyan:                             75 photos*
Magenta:                      83 photos*
Yellow:                          83 photos*
Photo Cyan:                  86 photos*
Photo Magenta:           69 photos*
Red:                             132 photos*
Chroma Optimiser:      31 photos*
                            *EstimatedSupplemental Yield
                        (*Whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

Taking mean of 87.3 photos/tank
Cost per set of 10 cartridges = £100 (from Premier Ink) a saving of £49.91 (YES these are the originals NOT other makes compatibles).

 

Then £100/87.3 photos = £1.15/ A3+photo    (Sorry I mislead everyone. The £0.60/photo was for the A4 size).

Still less than half the price of the cost of an Epson print. NOTE If I did not use the Chroma Optimiser the cost would be even less.

 

The A3+ paper I am thinking of using (Canson Infinity Rag Photographique 310) costs £99.66/pack 25sheets = £3.99/sheet.

For a cost of £5.14 I can have an A3+ print.

 

What would it cost from a lab?

 

Allan

 

 

 

Well I knew it couldn't be A3 in the first place so the correction makes more sense although those numbers are still way off in the real world in my experience. As has been said above, real world home printing will come nowhere near these test numbers because of the amount of ink used in cleaning the heads - similar to the fuel consumption figures quoted by car manufacturers where they drive a car around a track at a constant speed, optimal for fuel consumption. If you print continuously then you may reach those sorts of numbers but I have never seen anything like that in reality. I can't speak for the latest Canon printers but my old 9000 of 2008 vintage sounded like it suffered from asthma and seemed to be always wheezing away decongesting itself. I presume the new one has greatly improved. 

 

A standard A3 print from One Vision is £5.20 plus vat plus delivery (about £12 for courier I think) but a lot less for multiples as delivery costs would not increase up to 30 Kg. A fine art Hahnemuhle rag paper would be £10.70 plus vat according to their latest price list. 

 

 

[MDM]

 

16 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Sorry I was not implying nationality just that there could be a group in Ireland.

 

Allan

 

 

 

Glad to hear that I can still come to the Cambridge meets . It's a long way to Ballydehob as the old song might say. 

 

[MDM]

14 minutes ago, TeeCee said:

£3.57 plus postage, though cheaper if ordering more than a one-off print.
https://www.colorworldimaging.co.uk/print-services/digital-prints

 

That is for a standard wet chemistry print -  I can't see which brand on the website. Their fine art prints (giclée as they say) are a lot more expensive than One Vision though.

[aphperspective]

7 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 

Glad to hear that I can still come to the Cambridge meets . It's a long way to Ballydehob as the old song might say. 

 

May be a long way but the welcome would make the journey worthwhile.

[MDM]

14 minutes ago, aphperspective said:

May be a long way but the welcome would make the journey worthwhile.

 

Well thank you and it may well happen. Perhaps I could drag a few of the Cambridge guys over and we could hire a cottage at some point.

[MDM]

7 hours ago, NYCat said:

 

I have an Irish friend who lived here in New York for a few years and she said she did enjoy the anonymity. When I visited her in Ireland she was greeted by everybody everywhere. I had a wonderful time there. The reputation for beauty and charm is well deserved.

 

Paulette

 

I just noticed this post. She must have come from a country area. My home town is Dublin and the metropolitan area is over a million people so small compared to New York but big enough for complete anonymity. 

[aphperspective]

23 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Well thank you and it may well happen. Perhaps I could drag a few of the Cambridge guys over and we could hire a cottage at some point.

No shortage of very nice cottages to let, but they do go up in price for the holiday period. If there is a group it works out fairly well per head for a great holiday.

[Allan Bell]

18 hours ago, MDM said:

 

 

Glad to hear that I can still come to the Cambridge meets . It's a long way to Ballydehob as the old song might say. 

 

 

First let me say that you would be sorely missed if you felt you could not come to the Cambridge meets.

Second thank you for your continued input on this thread it is a very interesting discussion. I have not ruled anything in or out yet as I need to investigate some more into alternative printers and using labs. It just seemed that the Canon printer, on first look, seem to be a good option.

 

17 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Well thank you and it may well happen. Perhaps I could drag a few of the Cambridge guys over and we could hire a cottage at some point.

 

When the time comes I may well be interested in your proposal.

 

Allan

 

 

[Martin Carlsson]

On 4/2/2018 at 17:44, Allan Bell said:

 

For starters the ink cartridges for the Canon Pixma Pro - 10S are 14ml. Next........

 

From Canons website. Canon Pixma Pro - 10S

Ink Tanks Life/A3+ photo
Photo Black:                45 photos*
Matte Black:              238 photos*
Grey:                              31 photos*
Cyan:                             75 photos*
Magenta:                      83 photos*
Yellow:                          83 photos*
Photo Cyan:                  86 photos*
Photo Magenta:           69 photos*
Red:                             132 photos*
Chroma Optimiser:      31 photos*
                            *EstimatedSupplemental Yield
                        (*Whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

Taking mean of 87.3 photos/tank
Cost per set of 10 cartridges = £100 (from Premier Ink) a saving of £49.91 (YES these are the originals NOT other makes compatibles).

 

Then £100/87.3 photos = £1.15/ A3+photo    (Sorry I mislead everyone. The £0.60/photo was for the A4 size).

Still less than half the price of the cost of an Epson print. NOTE If I did not use the Chroma Optimiser the cost would be even less.

 

The A3+ paper I am thinking of using (Canson Infinity Rag Photographique 310) costs £99.66/pack 25sheets = £3.99/sheet.

For a cost of £5.14 I can have an A3+ print.

 

What would it cost from a lab?

 

Allan

 

 

 

Just wanted to say regardless of what lab quote you got/get for an A3+ - their standard papers won't match the feel, texture and overall quality of a well-chosen paper such as the Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag or similars - the papers are an art to themselves and something to add to your sales pitch. Also the fact that you oversaw/made it yourself (as in printing at home/office/studio) I think add value. All IMHO of course.

 

I don't know if you stated the reason for doing this, but if it is for print sales - then obviously adding services, "building it up" with matting and mounting, framing and provenance paperwork and emboss stamping all adds to "buying" something special and the further into it you go the bigger the margins and/or numbers of which the margins work. Yet again IMHO.

 

Thomas Heaton did a pretty good video going through the entire process that might be of interest + added a few more videos that might be of interest.

 

Personally I've not done any real marketing or currently even have shop (used to, now I'm in-between websites), all sales have been e-mail/word of mouth from local people and SMBs, but without doing a detailed analysis brutal "Brutus" (nickname for the Pixma-10) has definitely paid for himself and would be a profit centre with a bit more focus on it - too many things to do. However, "personal needs" printing for the wife's scrapbooking/family photo albums is costing a fair penny landing him in loss territory, but the convenience with which it is done is worth a lot to me and you know what they say "happy wife, happy life". Can't see how my ego would survive without him, he really takes mediocracy and spits out stunning pieces of art that people are willing to pay good money for and/or that we're personally happy to decorate the walls with.

 

All this print/printer talk makes me lust for the Canon Pixma imagePROGRAF PRO 1000 to be able to go bigger, which are completely GAS and ego-based, not found any business reasons to be able to go that big - but maybe "if you build it they will come" arguments can be used. Hmm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Colblimp]

On 4/2/2018 at 16:54, Allan Bell said:

 

 

YAY! It looks like we have the beginnings of an Irish contributors group.

 

Could become like our Cambridge contributors group which has around 12 to 13 members who meet about every 3 to 4 months over a bite to eat and a drink and discuss all things Alamy and photographic, plus what ever is news at the time.

 

Not everyone can turn up at the same time but we usually have 6 or 8 at the meets.

 

Good luck to the Irish contingent.

 

Allan

 

 

 

What a fantastic idea!  Andy, we'll discuss this today. 

[Colblimp]

Andy can you please call or text me on: 086 738 8863?  Thanks.

[Foreign Export]

On 01/04/2018 at 01:28, Martin Carlsson said:

 

I'm BIG into printing "at home" (which is also the office and studio). Wholeheartedly recommend the Canon Pixma Pro-10 (now they have evolved to Pixma Pro-10s, but no real difference to the "original" one) and would definitely buy it again. I might have considered the twice as much new Canon Pixma imagePROGRAF PRO 1000 which looks super sweet (A2 size, detailed reports for the cost of each print and just looks awesome). Had the Canon I-9900 for many many years - did a great job. 

 

So I started out feeling good about Canon after having the Canon I-9900 for many many years which performed really well and relatively hassle-free despite abuse. However, I did extensive research (I can get lost in details about "things" ahead of this purchase a few years back, researching both printers and papers, mainly taking into consideration quality of the printing, the longevity of prints, cost of printing and hassle-free printing for my "situation" i.e. for intermittent use with longer periods of no use. I wanted the ability to go up to A3 (my printer goes up to A3+). Landed on the Pixma Pro-10 with it's pigment based ink - stunning prints, both colour and b/w and combined with Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag paper with printer profiles for the absolutely best prints.

 

For paper I use;

1. Canson Infinity "Platine Fibre Rag" for fine-art type sold prints. Lovely feel to it, great surface and the "right" thickness.

2. Canon "Pro Platinum" for "modern" more glossy prints a la portraits etc. - so for some sold prints I use this. Also use this for the wife's "celebrity" autograph requests that are still being purchased (she was singer and model, thus a "little bit known" back in England and Scotland). 

3. Canon "Glossy Photo Paper (Everyday Use)" for pretty much everything else photograph related whether that be a birthday card, family photos for the wife's scrapbooking. Cheap, quite thin but looks great. Usually end up in a photoalbum or mounted.

4. Normal printer paper for all other various printing needs.

 

FYI - prints sold have mainly been A4 size and unframed, but mounted. The Canson paper really adds perceived value to the prints and gets commented on in a positive way, but it is expensive so that is to be expected. I use a "Logan" mat cutter system which makes the job a breeze and thumbs up for the "Pigma Micron 03" archival ink pens for signing. 3M Photo Mount spray glue has also been a good choice.

 

All "proper" prints are made through Canon's Print Studio Pro within Photoshop which works well. Normal printing through any programs - no problemo. Hope any of this helps a little bit.

 

Pro10S and Canon Pro paper works great for me

Unfortunately the new version of Lightroom doesn't support Print Studio Pro - so haven't been able to print that way of late

[Allan Bell]

11 hours ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

Just wanted to say regardless of what lab quote you got/get for an A3+ - their standard papers won't match the feel, texture and overall quality of a well-chosen paper such as the Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag or similars - the papers are an art to themselves and something to add to your sales pitch. Also the fact that you oversaw/made it yourself (as in printing at home/office/studio) I think add value. All IMHO of course.

 

I don't know if you stated the reason for doing this, but if it is for print sales - then obviously adding services, "building it up" with matting and mounting, framing and provenance paperwork and emboss stamping all adds to "buying" something special and the further into it you go the bigger the margins and/or numbers of which the margins work. Yet again IMHO.

 

Thomas Heaton did a pretty good video going through the entire process that might be of interest + added a few more videos that might be of interest.

 

Personally I've not done any real marketing or currently even have shop (used to, now I'm in-between websites), all sales have been e-mail/word of mouth from local people and SMBs, but without doing a detailed analysis brutal "Brutus" (nickname for the Pixma-10) has definitely paid for himself and would be a profit centre with a bit more focus on it - too many things to do. However, "personal needs" printing for the wife's scrapbooking/family photo albums is costing a fair penny landing him in loss territory, but the convenience with which it is done is worth a lot to me and you know what they say "happy wife, happy life". Can't see how my ego would survive without him, he really takes mediocracy and spits out stunning pieces of art that people are willing to pay good money for and/or that we're personally happy to decorate the walls with.

 

All this print/printer talk makes me lust for the Canon Pixma imagePROGRAF PRO 1000 to be able to go bigger, which are completely GAS and ego-based, not found any business reasons to be able to go that big - but maybe "if you build it they will come" arguments can be used. Hmm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Martin I have viewed the above videos. Such a lot to take in may have to view them again later. Thank you for posting.

 

Allan

 

 

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Martin I have viewed the above videos. Such a lot to take in may have to view them again later. Thank you for posting.

 

Allan

 

 

 

All the main paper manufacturers (Canson, Permajet etc) sell A4 sample packs with a few sheets of each of their different papers. That is the the best way to check out what you like - different papers suit different subjects as well so you are unlikely to use the same paper for everything.