Sony hand held twilight not so good on NEX

[Bryan]

Having been impressed by Philippe's HHT shots I decided to have a go using the NEX 6.

 

The results were disappointing, the camera chose an unnecessarily high shutter speed and, as a result, a higher than necessary ISO. I took the same shots using HHT and raw and found the HHT efforts to have unrecoverable shadows, while the raw files had sufficient range to provide detail in both highlights and shadows without excessive noise. Some of the HHT shots were also underexposed to my way of thinking.

 

I guess that the smaller sensor camera with wider lens that Philippe used was maybe better suited to this mode?

 

Could be down to my incompetence of course, but I don't think that there is much scope for adjustment in this mode of operation?

 

In truth my photos were not taken in truly twilight conditions, but they had similar conditions of strong contrast and dim light (Outdoor Christmas market and indoor library).

[Allan Bell]

Having been impressed by Philippe's HHT shots I decided to have a go using the NEX 6.

 

The results were disappointing, the camera chose an unnecessarily high shutter speed and, as a result, a higher than necessary ISO. I took the same shots using HHT and raw and found the HHT efforts to have unrecoverable shadows, while the raw files had sufficient range to provide detail in both highlights and shadows without excessive noise. Some of the HHT shots were also underexposed to my way of thinking.

 

I guess that the smaller sensor camera with wider lens that Philippe used was maybe better suited to this mode?

 

Could be down to my incompetence of course, but I don't think that there is much scope for adjustment in this mode of operation?

 

In truth my photos were not taken in truly twilight conditions, but they had similar conditions of strong contrast and dim light (Outdoor Christmas market and indoor library).

 

 

I tried that setting on Friday evening/night with my A6000 and after rejecting a couple at the processing stage I have uploaded some to Alamy and await QC.

 

The strange thing with images taken in this setting is that they load into LR even though they are jpeg. They can then be worked on and saved as tiff files. However LR keeps the tiff files and deletes the jpeg from the catalogue. This helps as final tweaks can be done in PS/PSE then saved as jpeg's again thus being able to keep the tiff as a record and reuse to make other jpeg's if necessary.

 

We await Mondays QC for their decision.

 

Allan

[Ed Rooney]

We're having a rather odd Sunday morning when I step up to correct my betters' tech knowledge, however . . . 

 

Bryan, the images Philippe posted in that recent thread were captured in the Night Scene mode, not the Twilight mode. These modes are very different. (This is assuming that we're talking about the same post.) 

 

And Allan, LR can handle any of the common image file types: jpeg, tiff, and the various RAW files. I don't know about LR deleting jpegs from its catalogue, 'cause I use separate folders. 

 

Do any of you know if QC works on weekends?

 

Edo

[Allan Bell]

 

We're having a rather odd Sunday morning when I step up to correct my betters' tech knowledge, however . . . 

 

Bryan, the images Philippe posted in that recent thread were captured in the Night Scene mode, not the Twilight mode. These modes are very different. (This is assuming that we're talking about the same post.) 

 

And Allan, LR can handle any of the common image file types: jpeg, tiff, and the various RAW files. I don't know about LR deleting jpegs from its catalogue, 'cause I use separate folders. 

 

Do any of you know if QC works on weekends?

 

Edo

 

Yep, I used the Night scene mode and processed the images in RAW. All pictures were shot at ISO 125 and mostly at f1.8 because I use this setting only in dim light.

 

        

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Handheld?

What shutter speed?

 

I only ask as I tried night mode handheld and they were all blurred.

 

Allan

[Allan Bell]

We're having a rather odd Sunday morning when I step up to correct my betters' tech knowledge, however . . . 

 

Bryan, the images Philippe posted in that recent thread were captured in the Night Scene mode, not the Twilight mode. These modes are very different. (This is assuming that we're talking about the same post.) 

 

And Allan, LR can handle any of the common image file types: jpeg, tiff, and the various RAW files. I don't know about LR deleting jpegs from its catalogue, 'cause I use separate folders. 

 

Do any of you know if QC works on weekends?

 

Edo

 

Whenever I synchronise LR with any of my folders it will import RAW's and TIFF's but not jpeg's.

 

Don't think QC work weekends. They need some time off after looking through all out contributions during the week to get their heads straight for the following week.

 

Allan

[Ed Rooney]

I like the examples that Philippe has posted on these scene modes, but I've not been happy with any of the tests I've done myself. I am content, however, with shooting RAW, keeping the ISO at 1,600 or below, and reducing noise in LR. 

[NYCat]

LR gives a choice of where to put jpegs and I have chosen to see them right next to the raw. I can't remember where it was putting them before I did that. I doubt that yours have been thrown away. Someone else can probably guide you.

 

Paulette

[Allan Bell]

LR gives a choice of where to put jpegs and I have chosen to see them right next to the raw. I can't remember where it was putting them before I did that. I doubt that yours have been thrown away. Someone else can probably guide you.

 

Paulette

 

 

Thanks Paulette. It is probably in the presets somewhere.

 

Allan

[Bryan]

Thanks for the clarification - it's night scene mode that I should be trying. That f1.8 will certainly be helpful, the standard zoom on the NEX is f3.5 to f5.6. Those images look really crisp to the edges, very impressive. I have an f2 Rokinon, but I'm not confident about using it fully open. Need to experiment.

 

I use File Explorer to transfer files from my memory cards to a simple month/year based filing system on my hard drive, and have never had any problem with LR reading JPGs from there. 

[Ed Rooney]

I had that super-wide Rokinon for a day, Bryan, and returned it. I also bought and returned the Zeiss wide prime. I now own the Sony 10-18, which has IS, and thank god I've had no problems with it.

[John Mitchell]

I find that HH twilight mode works well for some subjects, and not so well for others. I took some night images of neon signs awhile ago (NEX-6), and I thought that HH twilight did a good job.

 

[Bryan]

I had that super-wide Rokinon for a day, Bryan, and returned it. I also bought and returned the Zeiss wide prime. I now own the Sony 10-18, which has IS, and thank god I've had no problems with it.

The 12mm Rokinon is a strange lens Ed. Get the focus right and it's biting sharp, but, if it's slightly out the centre might be OK but the edge is dreadful - doesn't sound too plausible, but that's how I see it at present.

 

Its other vice is CA, the one click LR solution is rarely enough to deal with it, but a touch on the slider normally brings a solution.

 

Overall I enjoy using it, probably use it too much if the truth be known.

[John Mitchell]

 

I had that super-wide Rokinon for a day, Bryan, and returned it. I also bought and returned the Zeiss wide prime. I now own the Sony 10-18, which has IS, and thank god I've had no problems with it.

The 12mm Rokinon is a strange lens Ed. Get the focus right and it's biting sharp, but, if it's slightly out the centre might be OK but the edge is dreadful - doesn't sound too plausible, but that's how I see it at present.

 

Its other vice is CA, the one click LR solution is rarely enough to deal with it, but a touch on the slider normally brings a solution.

 

Overall I enjoy using it, probably use it too much if the truth be known.

 

 

I've been looking at the Rokinon/Samyang 12mm. Would much prefer the Sony 10-18, but it has become prohibitively expensive (for me) with the low Canadian dollar.

 

Sony's ultra-wide converter on their 16mm pancake lens, which gives 12mm equivalency, is still serving me well for the occasional wide shot. I took this one (verticals have been adjusted) a few weeks ago. Sharpness is surprisingly good across the frame. I tend to shoot at f/5.6-f/8 with this lens combo, so it probably wouldn't be any good for hand-held night photos.

[Allan Bell]

 

 

 

We're having a rather odd Sunday morning when I step up to correct my betters' tech knowledge, however . . . 

 

Bryan, the images Philippe posted in that recent thread were captured in the Night Scene mode, not the Twilight mode. These modes are very different. (This is assuming that we're talking about the same post.) 

 

And Allan, LR can handle any of the common image file types: jpeg, tiff, and the various RAW files. I don't know about LR deleting jpegs from its catalogue, 'cause I use separate folders. 

 

Do any of you know if QC works on weekends?

 

Edo

 

Yep, I used the Night scene mode and processed the images in RAW. All pictures were shot at ISO 125 and mostly at f1.8 because I use this setting only in dim light.

 

        

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Handheld?

What shutter speed?

 

I only ask as I tried night mode handheld and they were all blurred.

 

Allan

 

 

They were all handheld

 

   f/1.8  shutterspeed 1/8  ISO 125

 

   f/1.8  shutterspeed 1/80  ISO 125

 

   f/1.8  shutterspeed 1/25  ISO 125

 

   f/1.8  shutterspeed 1/50  ISO 125

 

No idea how Sony does it. With my big Nikons I would have to use a tripod and a shutterspeed of several seconds at ISO 200 or handheld it at - let's say - ISO 3200.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Thank you Philippe.

 

I have just tried to get the settings you used on my Sony RX100 mk1 in night mode but the ISO changes to Auto and will not accept a manual input and keeps changing. Also the aperture changes up to f2.5 as well at times after initially setting it at f1.8 in another setting. (Not night mode)????

 

Cannot try this on the Sony A6000 because I only have the 16-70mm f4 lens on it. And there it remains as it is a general walkabout set up. Also I find it better to close the aperture by a couple of stops for edge to edge sharpness.

 

Allan

[Allan Bell]

All goes automatically with mine. I don't have to set anything except selecting Night Scene mode. It also says ISO Auto but if you press the shutter slightly, it turns into ISO 125. The aperture changes according to the ambient light, but in dim light (I only use this setting for interiors or outdoor night scenes) it sets automatically to f/1.8.

When I point the camera in Night Scene mode to an overcast sky (at noon, just for a test), I get f/5.6  shutterspeed 1/800  ISO 125

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

Thanks Philippe you have cleared that up of me and everyone who might be wishing to try it.

 

Allan

[Allan Bell]

 

Having been impressed by Philippe's HHT shots I decided to have a go using the NEX 6.

 

The results were disappointing, the camera chose an unnecessarily high shutter speed and, as a result, a higher than necessary ISO. I took the same shots using HHT and raw and found the HHT efforts to have unrecoverable shadows, while the raw files had sufficient range to provide detail in both highlights and shadows without excessive noise. Some of the HHT shots were also underexposed to my way of thinking.

 

I guess that the smaller sensor camera with wider lens that Philippe used was maybe better suited to this mode?

 

Could be down to my incompetence of course, but I don't think that there is much scope for adjustment in this mode of operation?

 

In truth my photos were not taken in truly twilight conditions, but they had similar conditions of strong contrast and dim light (Outdoor Christmas market and indoor library).

 

 

I tried that setting on Friday evening/night with my A6000 and after rejecting a couple at the processing stage I have uploaded some to Alamy and await QC.

 

The strange thing with images taken in this setting is that they load into LR even though they are jpeg. They can then be worked on and saved as tiff files. However LR keeps the tiff files and deletes the jpeg from the catalogue. This helps as final tweaks can be done in PS/PSE then saved as jpeg's again thus being able to keep the tiff as a record and reuse to make other jpeg's if necessary.

 

We await Mondays QC for their decision.

 

Allan

 

 

 

Received notification from Alamy QC at 09.18 this morning that the images had passed. Yippee!

 

Allan

[John Mitchell]

The RX100 does indeed sound like a little miracle machine. In night scene mode, my NEX-6 chooses very high ISO settings. There is also no way to specify interiors, etc.

[Bryan]

The RX100 does indeed sound like a little miracle machine. In night scene mode, my NEX-6 chooses very high ISO settings. There is also no way to specify interiors, etc.

Yes, the RX100 does sound to be something special.

 

I think that the problem you are encountering on the NEX 6 may be that the shutter speed defaults to a minimum of 1/60th, and that, coupled with a smaller aperture, might be giving you the high ISO. With an f2 lens attached, a night scene photo of my monitors in this gloomy room required only ISO 125.

 

A limitation of the NEX 6 is that, in auto ISO mode, and aperture priority, the default minimum shutter speed is 1/60th. Using a wide lens this is often unnecessarily fast, and, when you want to capture action, it is too slow. You can get around this by selecting shutter speed priority of course, but I believe that the A6000 etc allow you to specify the minimum shutter speed when using auto ISO, a useful improvement. Not sure if it will have any bearing upon the speed selected in night scene however.

[Ed Rooney]

Just my point of view, but I would not be happy with using the RX100 series without the EVF on the M3 and later models. I do make use of the screen sometimes--it's great shooting food--but I couldn't work that way all the time. I use the RX100M3 more than any other camera now. 

[ReeRay]

@Ed ^. That's the quandary that the RX 100 creates. I have the M4. It's such a magic little beast that I now rarely, if ever, use my other cameras.

[Ed Rooney]

Yeah, Ray, it is so liberating, the kind of feeling they must have had with the first 35mm Leica. 

[ReeRay]

Returning to the OP and Phillipes examples of low light use I realised I've never used the "mode" settings so, out of pure curiosity, Iast night I set mine to night mode and shot a few frames around the house in very low light conditions, namely my office with a mere 8 watt bulb for illumination. I was getting sharp defined images at ISO 125, f1.8 and 1/8th handheld! Quite amazing.

[Niels Quist]

I also like my RX100-3 in night mode, but I have a problem keeping the camera steady enough handheld at low shutter speeds - f.inst. 1/8. In most cases not possible to use a tripod - even a small one. A railing helps if available. But I am quite sure I'll try the timer function hand held next time (if not a busy scenery) as an obvious reason could be the pressing of the shutter button. The automatic low ISO setting of 125 makes it possible to get wonderful skies without the noise you normally would have to deal heavily with.

 

[Allan Bell]

I have tried twilight and night modes with my RX100 mkI and in each case the camera just takes one shot.

 

When I tried this on my A6000 the camera sounded like a short bust from a machine-gun. About six shots for one image.

 

Allan

[IanGibson]

I have tried twilight and night modes with my RX100 mkI and in each case the camera just takes one shot.

 

When I tried this on my A6000 the camera sounded like a short bust from a machine-gun. About six shots for one image.

 

Allan

 

 

Maybe because the A6000 has a focal plane shutter.  The RX100 doesn't have a shutter as such.  There is a setting somewhere on the RX100 to silence the shutter, but I don't think there is on the A6000.