Sultanpepa Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Well now I am confused. I wouldn't have thought this would have been allowed on Alamy Live News. What do you think? EBCFRM People have lost jobs for manipulation and here we have HDR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Alamy and Alamy news both report: Sorry, no images were found for 'EBCFRM' Can you post an image or a direct link, or has someone already axed the image? I still use Canon, so I have to use HDR quite a lot to get some color in the sky or shadows without excessive noise. Nikon D800 or D810 users only have to use the sliders in ACR. My guess is that most of them do not declare an image digitally altered. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi2ap Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Seems to not be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofiant Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I think you mean these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Stockimo! wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoDogue Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Maybe somebody clicked the Live News upload by mistake? These are totally outside Alamy's guidelines for news images. "Be free of any manipulation which could alter the images' truth or news value." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think you mean these Yes that's the ones. Thanks Cofiant. I find it hard to believe it's a mistake but it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 It has the full caption of a news image. This would not fit regular uploads nor archival. Besides News images are vetted. Someone testing the waters maybe? wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoDogue Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Besides News images are vetted. Someone testing the waters maybe? wim Maybe not on a Saturday night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Stockimo! wim Certainly not Stockimo as all those ref numbers start with an 'S' Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Alamy and Alamy news both report: Sorry, no images were found for 'EBCFRM' Can you post an image or a direct link, or has someone already axed the image? I still use Canon, so I have to use HDR quite a lot to get some color in the sky or shadows without excessive noise. Nikon D800 or D810 users only have to use the sliders in ACR. My guess is that most of them do not declare an image digitally altered. wim Confused there wim. I use Canon and do all my PP in ACR. Love those sliders! Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Alamy and Alamy news both report: Sorry, no images were found for 'EBCFRM' Can you post an image or a direct link, or has someone already axed the image? I still use Canon, so I have to use HDR quite a lot to get some color in the sky or shadows without excessive noise. Nikon D800 or D810 users only have to use the sliders in ACR. My guess is that most of them do not declare an image digitally altered. wim Confused there wim. I use Canon and do all my PP in ACR. Love those sliders! Jill There is a difference, I'm afraid. I have used the Nikon a couple of times and post is really much easier. Almost no need for HDR. Or pulling blues selectively or ACR twice or trice one for highlights one for midtones and one for shadows with Noise Reduction Luminance set to 50. And then painting in most of it by hand. I know there's a solution for all that without buying a D810: buy a Sony A7R. But that one is not quite there, so then I will have to carry a Canon and my RX100 and a A7r. Compared to te Nikon and the Canon, the Sony is cheap. It has wifi too. Now build it with a good and silent shutter and fast AF please. -rant mode off. At this point let me tell the story when as a student I climbed a tall street light with a 7.5m/25ft ladder. The ladder tilted and went down with me in top. Only very close to the ground I realised it was very stupid of me to hold on to the ladder. ;-) wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Alamy and Alamy news both report: Sorry, no images were found for 'EBCFRM' Can you post an image or a direct link, or has someone already axed the image? I still use Canon, so I have to use HDR quite a lot to get some color in the sky or shadows without excessive noise. Nikon D800 or D810 users only have to use the sliders in ACR. My guess is that most of them do not declare an image digitally altered. wim Confused there wim. I use Canon and do all my PP in ACR. Love those sliders! Jill There is a difference, I'm afraid. I have used the Nikon a couple of times and post is really much easier. wim This is true in my experience. I went from Nikon film cameras to Canon DSLRs because Nikon were very slow to produce an affordable DSLR. When Nikon released the D700, I bought one and could not believe the difference in image quality (low shadow noise in particular as well as ability to bring back detail in highlights, in other words incredible dynamic range), against the Canon 20D and 350D which I had been using. The D800 has the same astounding dynamic range (although only at low ISO). I shoot some very contrasty scenes and I've never used HDR - no need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 The point I'm making though is that these are posted to live news. (loosely as they are landscapes) Now even if they were shot to show magnificent lighting, that has been destroyed by using HDR processing. Also, if these are composite images (true HDR not pseudo) then the rules of news image submission have been ripped up completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWilliam Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I'm agree with you wholeheartedly Sultanpea. I saw these in the newsfeed on Fri and was very surprised to say the least! I think it calls into question Alamy's integrity as a reliable source for news photos if HDR is allowed to go through as news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 IMHO (God how I hate that pointless aside! Who's opinion would I be giving without using " "?), these problems have been triggered by the dawning of the iPhone/Stockimo Era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Endicott Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 HDR for news photos has been argued to death.....in fact HDR use on World Press Photo winner photos has been argued to death. Whether or not you should use HDR on a news photo is a matter of opinion. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/may/14/gaza-funeral-photograph-world-press The chairman of the World Press competition judges, Santiago Lyon, director of photography at the Associated Press, has said of all the winners: "We are confident that the images conform to the accepted practices of the profession." http://petapixel.com/2012/01/18/is-hdr-acceptable-in-photojournalism/ Sean Elliot, president of the National Press Photographers Association, said, “HDR is not appropriate for documentary photojournalism.” The organization’s code of ethics say photographers should respect the integrity of the digital moment, “and in that light an HDR photo is no different from any other digital manipulation.” “By using HDR,” he told me by email, “The Washington Post has combined different moments, and thereby created an image that does not exist. The aircraft visible in the final product was not there for all the other moments combined into the final, and that alone simply raises too many questions about the factual validity of the actual published image.” http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/159412/washington-post-raises-eyebrows-with-composite-photo-on-front-page/ “The technology offers broader dynamic range in tone and detail, and does not change the authenticity of the scene or situation,” Irby told me. It’s particularly useful when part of a scene is very dark or light, and choosing a single exposure means that only a portion of the image will be properly exposed. That’s why Post photographer Bill O’Leary chose HDR this time, du Cille said. It's Alamy's sandbox - they are the ones that make the decision about how we play in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Interesting Ed, I didn't know any of this. I did make the distinction between pseudo and single shot but even so, in my book at any rate, single shot HDR alters much more than shaded areas. I have never seen anything that looks like an HDR image using my own eyes therefore it is beyond what we would call reality or even a fair representation. I'm no prude. HDR has it's place and it can be really nice when done subtly but it's a step too far for news in my book. Not wishing to make a big thing of it but this has just turned upside-down what I believed to be news reporting standards. Leaving you with a thought, maybe those photographers who have lost jobs due to removing items from images could argue that all they have done is remove items that wouldn't have been there if they had taken the shot at a different angle or waited another second or two. All very subjective isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I have never seen anything that looks like an HDR image using my own eyes therefore it is beyond what we would call reality or even a fair representation. Using this criterion it could be argued that all black and white images are manipulated reality. HDR may or may not alter reality - it depends on the image. The world press photo that caused all the furore in the first place I would not regard as digitally altered. However, I do agree that the images here are pushing the boundaries of truth as defined by Alamy in relation to digital alteration. Perhaps even more to the point is are they really news by any sensible definition? I can see the headline "The sun came through the clouds today in rural Wales" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickfly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alamy guidelines: No excessive lightening or darkening of the image or colouring of the image should be employed which might change the truth of the image e.g. darkening clouds to make them look thunderous when it was in fact a nice summer’s day. The image is admittedly changed using HDR to 'make the autumnal colours apparent' in their description, but I'd be more interested to know how it's a news story, and there's nothing in the caption to suggest it's a weather story. Maybe it's just been mistakenly uploaded to the News feed. I was a bit unsure who has the copyright when two names are used, who took the shot, Alistair or Jan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Have Stockimo images been accepted in news? wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultanpepa Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Don't have the faintest idea Wim. I'm an android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWilliam Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 According to the Alamy News Twitter feed... it's coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Alamy and Alamy news both report: Sorry, no images were found for 'EBCFRM' Can you post an image or a direct link, or has someone already axed the image? I still use Canon, so I have to use HDR quite a lot to get some color in the sky or shadows without excessive noise. Nikon D800 or D810 users only have to use the sliders in ACR. My guess is that most of them do not declare an image digitally altered. wim Confused there wim. I use Canon and do all my PP in ACR. Love those sliders! Jill There is a difference, I'm afraid. I have used the Nikon a couple of times and post is really much easier. Almost no need for HDR. Or pulling blues selectively or ACR twice or trice one for highlights one for midtones and one for shadows with Noise Reduction Luminance set to 50. And then painting in most of it by hand. I know there's a solution for all that without buying a D810: buy a Sony A7R. But that one is not quite there, so then I will have to carry a Canon and my RX100 and a A7r. Compared to te Nikon and the Canon, the Sony is cheap. It has wifi too. Now build it with a good and silent shutter and fast AF please. -rant mode off. At this point let me tell the story when as a student I climbed a tall street light with a 7.5m/25ft ladder. The ladder tilted and went down with me in top. Only very close to the ground I realised it was very stupid of me to hold on to the ladder. ;-) wim I agree about Canon. Just sold off my Canon 6D and I'm using the Sony A7 and A6000.Big difference in those skies for one. I plan on getting the A7000 if that becomes a reality.I like the idea of touchscreen and weather sealing. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoDogue Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Have Stockimo images been accepted in news? wim I tried sending two news related photos to Stockimo that had either minimal or no post-processing. Both were rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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