DACS claim Part 1 - URLs?

[M.Chapman]

Just started preparing my Part 1 DACS Claim for last year (Publication history ISBNs, ISSNs and URLs)

As I understand it I can submit the following

 

1) ISBNs for any UK Books my images have been published in

2) ISSNs for any UK Magazines my images have been published in

3) URLS (Domain name only) for any UK websites that have published my images

 

The first 2 are straightforward (I don't have too many books and magazines that I've found usages in), but the 3rd category is much larger. Presumably in the third category we can include any online newspapers that have used our images? What about UK travel websites, UK business websites etc, etc.?

 

Mark

[Joseph Clemson]

15 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

I let Alamy do my TV claims. It's too difficult if you're outside the UK. Actually, I'm starting to think that I should let Alamy do the whole thing. Trying to find ISBNs and ISSNs for UK books and mags is very frustrating. 🤕

 

I let Alamy do my TV claims too. Even if you live in the UK identifying TV usage is very difficult, indeed almost impossible unless someone stumbles upon a usage and reports it in the forum.  I would also echo the sentiment that identifying usages in books and magazines is also onerous and not always successful - I've not been able to identify a single one of the half-dozen magazine uses reported by Alamy this year. The only reason I persist in trying is sheer bloody-minded determination to retain as much money as I can from the process and deny Alamy their ever increasing slice of the cake. 

 

The one plus point to doing the DACs claim myself is that prompted me to identify some unauthorised image uses, a couple of which brought in licence infringement payments after I reported them to Alamy.

 

However, I would be interested to hear if anyone has given up the struggle that is the annual DACS usage identification, and let Alamy take over the process for their still images.  Comparison year on year is difficult because the DACS formula has changed over the years and the amount claimed for each year may differ, but did anyone find that letting Alamy do the DACS claim resulted in a noticeable increase in DACs income simply because Alamy have all the usage information at their fingertips?

[Joseph Clemson]

3 hours ago, lorenza said:

Good morning to all of you ( ore 08.10 AM - Italy 🙂)
thank you very much for your intervention.
Alamy, since I started, has been crediting me with DACS amounts in October, so I assume that I agreed to let them take care of DACS, although I don't remember when I gave my assent (I assume the moment I signed the contract and started uploading my images).

🙂Lorenza

 

Alamy changed the contributor contract to allow them to automatically administer DACS  for all contributors somewhere around mid 2016. Those of us who had been administering DACS for ourselves up to that point were given the option to retain that right for either still images or TV usage or both. I opted to allow Alamy to claim for TV usage (as it is very difficult to identify specific usage) and I retained the right to claim for still images for myself. 

 

By the time you joined in March 2017, there was no choice in the matter for new contributors.

[spacecadet]

deleted

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by spacecadet

[spacecadet]

deleted

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by spacecadet

[spacecadet]

42 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

did anyone find that letting Alamy do the DACS claim resulted in a noticeable increase in DACs income simply because Alamy have all the usage information at their fingertips?

I've reported this before but it's worth repeating.

Around the time when A were touting  for DACS business and trying to persuade us to sign over claims to them, I got an email showing how many items A could claim for. It was only about 20% higher than the number I'd identified myself so I concluded that  it couldn't possibly make up for the 50% commission. So I stayed put.

I should add that my claim is quite small, only a few dozen items.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by spacecadet

[geogphotos]

I don't understand the source of the money to pay for CLA ( Copyright Licensing Agency) licence owners reporting use of websites.

 

I entered lots of domains names last year but have no idea if it ws worthwhile. Most of them would the same for 2022 but with the possibility of extra images to add - but this is hard to find out with any accuracy across many websites. 

 

 

[Chris Burrows]

6 hours ago, lorenza said:

Good morning to all of you ( ore 08.10 AM - Italy 🙂)
thank you very much for your intervention.
Alamy, since I started, has been crediting me with DACS amounts in October, so I assume that I agreed to let them take care of DACS, although I don't remember when I gave my assent (I assume the moment I signed the contract and started uploading my images).

🙂Lorenza

Yes section 22 in the contract.  You could only refuse Alamy the right to claim if you advised them before 30 July 2016 Section 22.6

Chris

[M.Chapman]

7 hours ago, geogphotos said:

I don't understand the source of the money to pay for CLA ( Copyright Licensing Agency) licence owners reporting use of websites.

 

I entered lots of domains names last year but have no idea if it ws worthwhile. Most of them would the same for 2022 but with the possibility of extra images to add - but this is hard to find out with any accuracy across many websites. 

Yes I agree, it's all a bit of a mystery as to how it works. Following their (DACS) earlier response (I posted it above) I have asked for more details on how DACS money is allocated to URLS, but haven't received a response yet. I'll post here if I get a reply.

 

Yes it will be a lot of work researching and entering all those URLS. A spreadsheet should help collate and sort all the info. I'm putting the full URLS of all the usages I've found in Column 1 (using reverse image search + Pixsy + Copytrack). In column 2 I propose to extract just the domain names from each URL with a formula. In column 3 I'll put "1" to use as a usage count/URL. I can then generate a summary Pivot table from Columns 2 and 3 to total the usages for each domain. Sort in Alphabetic order, then enter into DACS.

 

Well that's the plan, depending on what DACS say about fund allocation.

 

Mark

Edited February 2, 2023 by M.Chapman

[Marianne]

I didn't realize that "Culture Trip is a London-based website started in 2011 by former psychiatrist Kris Naudts, who claims almost 20 million people visit it each month — and that figure is growing"  That's a bunch I didn't add to my DACS claim the past few years since they've allowed UK websites. Better late than never. 

 

I though the .com might throw others off, as it did me, although the dates written 17 April 2020 should have been a tip-off. 

 

 

[Cecile Marion]

Interesting. Wish they paid (a whole lot) more.

[giphotostock]

On 30/01/2023 at 10:40, M.Chapman said:

I decided to contact DACS directly to see what they say.

 

I asked

 

"My work appears on hundreds of UK websites, for example;

• Online versions of UK newspapers
• Online versions UK magazines
• UK Holiday and Travel websites
• UK Garden/plant supply websites
• Estate agents websites (photos of the locality)
• Small UK business websites

Which types of UK websites can/should be included in my DACS part 1 claim?"

 

They replied

 

"Thank you for getting in touch. 

 

You can include all of the websites listed below [a copy of my email was included below] as URLs in your Part 1 claim as long as they include your images. 

 

You will just need to include the high-level URL for each site that your images are included on (e.g. www.bbc.co.uk) and the number of images that are used across that site. It is totally fine if you use an estimated figure for the number of images included as long as this is not inflated." 

 

Mmmm... It will be a lot of work to enter all my URLs these so I'm going to get back to DACS to ask for more details on how URL cashback is allocated.

e.g. Is there some sort of matching process between the domains names we enter and the domains their end users say they've copied from? Or is some other method used? What I don't want to do is spend ages entering URLS from sites that are very unlikely be copied or matched.

 

Nevertheless, it looks to me like it should be worth including UK Newspaper websites as there aren't too many of them and they have numerous usages.

 

Mark

 

I never realized Payback applies to web sites.. I thought it applies only UK books and magazines (journals). We must have 100s if not 1000s of web uses, never really tracked those..

Are you supposed to report web uses for only the preceding year (like TV) or they accumulate like uses for books and magazines do?

[geogphotos]

37 minutes ago, giphotostock said:

 

I never realized Payback applies to web sites.. I thought it applies only UK books and magazines (journals). We must have 100s if not 1000s of web uses, never really tracked those..

Are you supposed to report web uses for only the preceding year (like TV) or they accumulate like uses for books and magazines do?

 

Web uses are cumulative - but the jury is out on whther it is worth the effort.

[geogphotos]

I have requested a breakdown of my 2022 claim ( for uses up to end of 2021) so that I can assess the significance of reporting web uses towards my payment. DACS have told me that they can do this but that it will take time. The problem is that there isn't much time  before the closing date.

 

This 'web use' section of the claim is unclear and  unsatisfactory at the moment. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by geogphotos

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

I have requested a breakdown of my 2022 claim ( for uses up to end of 2021) so that I can assess the significance of reporting web uses towards my payment. DACS have told me that they can do this but that it will take time. The problem is that there isn't much time  before the closing date.

 

This 'web use' section of the claim is unclear and  unsatisfactory at the moment. 

 

Yes - I'm still waiting on a reply for more details too before proceeding further. I may try to get a "consolidation" spreadsheet ready but won't populate it yet.

 

Mark

 

[geogphotos]

One consequence of Alamy's syndication deal with PA Media is that I find my images on hundreds of local newspaper sites ( there was a thread about it).

 

I haven't had a response from DACS over website payments from last year. Is it worth me spending so much time copying and pasting in URLS for these local newspapers - especially without information about the likely returns.

 

Has anybody found out more about how payments for URLS work and if UK newspapers are included?

Edited February 15, 2023 by geogphotos

[M.Chapman]

4 hours ago, geogphotos said:

One consequence of Alamy's syndication deal with PA Media is that I find my images on hundreds of local newspaper sites ( there was a thread about it).

 

I haven't had a response from DACS over website payments from last year. Is it worth me spending so much time copying and pasting in URLS for these local newspapers - especially without information about the likely returns.

 

Has anybody found out more about how payments for URLS work and if UK newspapers are included?

I've not heard back from DACS either. Nevertheless I collated several hundred of my UK URLs (found via Copytrack) into a spreadsheet. I then used a VBA macro to extract the domain names and a pivot table to count the usages for each domain. I ended up with just over 100 domains (lots of Travel websites and small business users, as well as Newspapers). I then submitted them to DACS. I've no idea if I've wasted my time, it's a shame DACS didn't respond as time's running out for Part 1.

 

Mark

Edited February 15, 2023 by M.Chapman

[geogphotos]

I left a phone message today - nobody answers and it goes straight to the messaging service.

 

No doubt they are incredibly busy but it is really annoying that they can't just make the situation clear. Soemthing on their website or an email to everybody.

 

Even if they don't know how it works they do have the information about payments for web uses last year.

 

So it is rather more than a 'shame' to my mind! 

 

[geogphotos]

 

CLA advise that the only data gathered about users by their audit team would be based on their 'repertoire' of permissions included in the CLA licence.

 

My screenshot shows that Oxford University Press do include the right for Schools with a CLA licence to make digital copies from their website.

 

Doing the same for the BBC comes up with a result that contradicts the advice given by DACS to Mark ( above in this thread) - making digital copies of BBC content is not covered by the CLA licence for schools. There is a big Red Cross rather than a green tick. 

 

Having said that the person I spoke to made it plain that they did not know how DACS operated and that I would have to speak to them etc

 

But logically DACS would surely only be able to divvy up money for URLs that are included in the CLA scheme? Unless they do some rough and ready allocation based on the sheer quantity of URLs listed. They wouldn't would they???

Edited February 16, 2023 by geogphotos

[geogphotos]

Here is the list of publishers that are included in the CLA Education licence for digital use. 

 

The list below shows UK digital material publishers that have opted-in to the Education Licence. If the publisher of digital original publication is not shown on this list then the material may not be copied or re-used under the terms of the licence. 

 

https://www.cla.co.uk/included/edu-digital

Edited February 16, 2023 by geogphotos

[geogphotos]

For what it so worth I am going to put down everything that I come across - I feel that it is better to use my time on that rather than trying to understand this opaque system. 

[M.Chapman]

2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

For what it so worth I am going to put down everything that I come across - I feel that it is better to use my time on that rather than trying to understand this opaque system. 

That's what I've done too. Copytrack results were very useful as they allowed.all previous hits they've found on my images over the last few years to be filtered by territory or domain or domain suffix (e.g. .co.uk).

 

Mark

[geogphotos]

32 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

That's what I've done too. Copytrack results were very useful as they allowed.all previous hits they've found on my images over the last few years to be filtered by territory or domain or domain suffix (e.g. .co.uk).

 

Mark

 

I've done the same with a similar copyright tracking service. Anyway, it is always quite pleasant spending time with images that somebody has bought!

[John Mitchell]

The deadline for submitting DACS Part 1 is rapidly approaching. As usual, I've been able to unearth virtually no new ISBN's, ISSN's, and UK URL's. Does anyone have any last-minute advice / tips for those of us residing on the other side of the planet? 🌎

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by John Mitchell

[Joseph Clemson]

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

The deadline for submitting DACS Part 1 is rapidly approaching. As usual, I've been able to unearth virtually no new ISBN's, ISSN's, and UK URL's. Does anyone have any last-minute advice / tips for those of us residing on the other side of the planet? 🌎

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid it isn't that much easier on this side of the pond. I've not been able to specifically identify even one of the dozen or so UK magazine sales I made in 2022. My only small victory was a website URL usage I found using Bing which Google had missed.

 

I have wondered if searching www.pressreader.com might bear fruit for some people. There is some facility for searching within publications for text strings, but I've not yet found anything useful myself using the unpaid facilities. The subscriptions which opens up access to many worldide magazines and newspapers is rather to costly to be justifiable, at least for me.

 

I can't offer any other search tips beyond those which have been recorded in the forum in recent years. 

[John Mitchell]

2 hours ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

I'm afraid it isn't that much easier on this side of the pond. I've not been able to specifically identify even one of the dozen or so UK magazine sales I made in 2022. My only small victory was a website URL usage I found using Bing which Google had missed.

 

I have wondered if searching www.pressreader.com might bear fruit for some people. There is some facility for searching within publications for text strings, but I've not yet found anything useful myself using the unpaid facilities. The subscriptions which opens up access to many worldide magazines and newspapers is rather to costly to be justifiable, at least for me.

 

I can't offer any other search tips beyond those which have been recorded in the forum in recent years. 

   

Thanks, Joseph. I figured as much. I don't really have a lot of UK sales. I'll just hit the submit button and home for the best...

 

P.S. I haven't tried using Bing. Shall give it a go.Thanks for the tip.