philtheclick Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 This is today’s Alamy advert on Google? I thought we are not allowed to upload NT property images, but I see hundreds of locations that were removed a few years ago. Have things changed? National Trust Stock Photos and Images - Alamy Find the perfect national trust stock photo. Huge collection, amazing choice, 100+ million high quality, affordable RF and RM images. No need to register, buy now! We all contribute to the NT whether in membership or gift aid, so are we now allowed to photograph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) No. The NT is trying to establish a monopoly for its own library (which it puts on Alamy) by forcing Alamy to remove images taken at some of its properties, but they can't control all of them- taken from public footpaths, for example, or on property you don't pay to enter. There has been a lot of discussion here over the years, but basically the NT is abusing a byelaw passed 60 years ago to stop itinerant photographers. And by the way we're not "all" members- I wouldn't be seen dead with an NT membership card, and a few here have cancelled theirs just because of this grasping policy. If a business behaved this way it would be hung by the heels in the court of public opinion, but as long as the NT has such a saintly image with said public it's a losing battle. Well, lost. Edited May 22, 2020 by spacecadet 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtheclick Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 I very much agree. The point I was making is that the whole population contrbutes to the NT via gift aid and tax exemptions, therefore we all have a stake in NT policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Much though I dislike their high handed approach over photography, and have said so in the past, I have continued with membership and, God forbid, even do some volunteering for them. I wouldn't want to be without the chance to wander around the wonderful Cragside estate several times a year or to lose the chance of visiting so many other properties on our travels in the UK. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 5 hours ago, philtheclick said: This is today’s Alamy advert on Google? When you say advert do you mean one of those Google algorithm things that appear to describe exactly what you are looking for? I've no idea how they work or how they're paid for but I'm a little surprised if Alamy are actually advertising their National Trust images given the sensitivity. Strangely by random clicking on the first few pages of the 97,756 images on Alamy that came up in the search for 'National Trust' I found several from regular contributors on this forum but none from the actual National Trust Photo Library, who seem to have 45,687 images on Alamy currently. Most of these front runners could have been taken from outside N.T. properties, but not all of them. Some were from the National Trust for Scotland which might have a different policy. No, I wouldn't join the National Trust, partly due to their photography policy which Spacecadet has described succintly and partly for their high-handed attitude to locals at a property near my home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I am not offering to start this because I don't have the skills. But I do think it would be a great idea to have a petition from stock photographers objecting to the NT Photo Library's policies toward legitimate photography of OUR national heritage. I would be very willing to get involved if somebody with more know-how did offer to get this going. It has been festering for too long and they need to be confronted. The campaign could point out how so many of us and our families do not pay a membership fee and how they are losing out far more through that than their monopolistic fantasies. The National Trust Photo Library need a kick up the RRs. 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 7 hours ago, philtheclick said: This is today’s Alamy advert on Google? I thought we are not allowed to upload NT property images, but I see hundreds of locations that were removed a few years ago. Have things changed? National Trust Stock Photos and Images - Alamy Find the perfect national trust stock photo. Huge collection, amazing choice, 100+ million high quality, affordable RF and RM images. No need to register, buy now! We all contribute to the NT whether in membership or gift aid, so are we now allowed to photograph? 53 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said: When you say advert do you mean one of those Google algorithm things that appear to describe exactly what you are looking for? I've no idea how they work or how they're paid for but I'm a little surprised if Alamy are actually advertising their National Trust images given the sensitivity. Strangely by random clicking on the first few pages of the 97,756 images on Alamy that came up in the search for 'National Trust' I found several from regular contributors on this forum but none from the actual National Trust Photo Library, who seem to have 45,687 images on Alamy currently. Most of these front runners could have been taken from outside N.T. properties, but not all of them. Some were from the National Trust for Scotland which might have a different policy. No, I wouldn't join the National Trust, partly due to their photography policy which Spacecadet has described succintly and partly for their high-handed attitude to locals at a property near my home. This isn't advertising by Alamy, it's merely Google scouring webpages created by Alamy's site allowing creation of unique URIs. The link that you have provided can be manipulated in any way whatsoever to achieve whatever result you want. The link goes to https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/national-trust.html, so change that manually in the address bar of your browser to bring up results of say 'ice cream' by changing the last part of the URI, thus: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/ice-cream.html. The last part of the URI is the content of the search bar in the Alamy search. Go and have a play and you'll see what I mean. As long as manipulation of a URI in this way returns genuine content, useful to the end user, Google allows it, thus enabling easy and comprehensive search. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 That link brings up 99,260 images that have National Trust in their keywords. I've clicked on a few but I have not seen one by the National Trust yet. Does that mean it's not being policed? Not anymore? Only 282 of those 99,260 are property released btw. That's 0.28410235744509366% ! 😂 But 28,906 are RF. That's 29%. Floodgate. 🤦♂️ wim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, losdemas said: This isn't advertising by Alamy, it's merely Google scouring webpages created by Alamy's site allowing creation of unique URIs. The link that you have provided can be manipulated in any way whatsoever to achieve whatever result you want. Thanks for explaining that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, philtheclick said: I very much agree. The point I was making is that the whole population contrbutes to the NT via gift aid and tax exemptions, therefore we all have a stake in NT policy. Ah I see what you mean. Very true. So much for getting no government support. Edited May 23, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Photography Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Does anyone know if the National Trust policy has changed since PA Media acquired Alamy? Are the National Trust not monitoring Stock companies anymore? I did a search for “National Trust House” and there are 15,500+ images on Alamy, with 72 distributors, one of which was the National Trust Photo Library. Alamy Search - "National Trust" House Edited August 16, 2020 by MB Photography 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 No reason to have changed. It's precisely to create a monopoly for its own images that NT strongarms Alamy into removing ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAROL SAUNDERS Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I joined NT many years ago when I used to visit the Farne Islands regularly, it just seemed easier to have a card than fumble around for change in my pocket. Recently I visited Cliveden House and uploaded a few clicks, so what do I do now delete them, mark them differently? I looked at others on here and some are marked editorial only, others not ? Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said: I joined NT many years ago when I used to visit the Farne Islands regularly, it just seemed easier to have a card than fumble around for change in my pocket. Recently I visited Cliveden House and uploaded a few clicks, so what do I do now delete them, mark them differently? I looked at others on here and some are marked editorial only, others not ? Carol I'd leave them. If Alamy gets another threat from the NT they'll remove them anyway. Edited August 16, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb photos Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, MB Photography said: Does anyone know if the National Trust policy has changed since PA Media acquired Alamy? Are the National Trust not monitoring Stock companies anymore? I did a search for “National Trust House” and there are 15,500+ images on Alamy, with 72 distributors, one of which was the National Trust Photo Library. Alamy Search - "National Trust" House Whatever the reason for NT not taking action against the thousands of images in Alamy's library they currently haven't the staff to investigate. I visited NT Sissinghurst Castle in Kent a few weeks back. The gardens were obviously very run down. Talking to a volunteer there she said only 2 gardners had been working during lockdown, and the rest furloughed, and a large number of redundancies were expected. I haven't been a member the NT for some time over the fox hunting on NT property issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, sb photos said: the fox hunting on NT property issue. Eh? Fox hunting has been banned for over a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb photos Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Eh? Fox hunting has been banned for over a decade. As you likely know, fox hunting still takes place with relative impunity under the guise of only 'following artificially laid trails', as does cubbing. Edited August 16, 2020 by sb photos 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Photography Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said: I joined NT many years ago when I used to visit the Farne Islands regularly, it just seemed easier to have a card than fumble around for change in my pocket. Recently I visited Cliveden House and uploaded a few clicks, so what do I do now delete them, mark them differently? I looked at others on here and some are marked editorial only, others not ? Carol I have a few NT images but I marked them as "Editorial Only". I noticed the National Trust have marked all of their images "Editorial Only" as well through Alamy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Photography Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 So how would the National Trust prevent an image being published in another country? How would they know? There must be hundreds of foreign visitors to NT properties who contribute to Stock Image libraries in their own country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, MB Photography said: So how would the National Trust prevent an image being published in another country? How would they know? There must be hundreds of foreign visitors to NT properties who contribute to Stock Image libraries in their own country. They threaten Alamy and Alamy remove the images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 They also have over 45,000 of their own library images on Alamy here, which complicates things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 The other bone of contention is how intentionally difficult they make it to submit photos to the NTPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Photography Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, spacecadet said: They threaten Alamy and Alamy remove the images. So I guess only the UK based image libraries would have to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Photography Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, geogphotos said: The other bone of contention is how intentionally difficult they make it to submit photos to the NTPL. To become one of their selected photographers you have to be related to a member of the board. Nepotism! From what I have seen the Alamy photographers seem to have better images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb photos Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 18 hours ago, MB Photography said: I have a few NT images but I marked them as "Editorial Only". I noticed the National Trust have marked all of their images "Editorial Only" as well through Alamy. The NT library images are likely editorial only as they could be concerned where their images might be used in advertising and marketing or they would want to negotiate directly for commercial use. When I see on Alamy NT images taken on their property where an entry charge has been levied and they have no releases I often wonder if they sell? Surely picture editors would be wary although I can imagine they might get licensed as PU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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