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Prixpics

Lunminar 4 as editing software

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Hi Folks. I have a new Mac and was using CS5 student/teacher edition but Adobe's license per month is not something I want to use. I have Lightroom an a laptop and was about to put Lightoom on to my new i Mac but checked out editing software and saw Luminar as a one off payment option. So now I am not sure if to buy Luminar 4 for the I Mac as a Plug in for Adobe & Apple products or Luminary's 4 as a stand alone product. Or do you recommend something else? 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Adrian. 

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I think this was discussed a while back - try a search. I use Luminar a bit but I think one of our technical experts (MDM maybe) said that Luminar was not colour controlled so not appropriate for primary editing. I could be totally mis-remembering this though.

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If you’re after an image editor with a one off payment, suggest taking a look at Photoshop Elements or Affinity Photo.

 

Mark

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2 hours ago, Colin Woods said:

I think this was discussed a while back - try a search. I use Luminar a bit but I think one of our technical experts (MDM maybe) said that Luminar was not colour controlled so not appropriate for primary editing. I could be totally mis-remembering this though.

 

Thanks for the expert title Colin but I would have to humbly decline that as I have never used or even seen Luminar in action 😀. I could go advanced user of Lightroom and very experienced with Photoshop. The only other photo processing software I have is DxO Lab 3 which I am sure you advocate (DxO at least) and which I think is very good. I got it as a Black Friday deal to see what people are talking about and it certainly is very good but is not the same ballpark as the Adobe Photography package for numerous reasons which are beyond the scope of this discussion as Adrian is not interested in the subscription. 

 

4 hours ago, Prixpics said:

Hi Folks. I have a new Mac and was using CS5 student/teacher edition but Adobe's license per month is not something I want to use. I have Lightroom an a laptop and was about to put Lightoom on to my new i Mac but checked out editing software and saw Luminar as a one off payment option. So now I am not sure if to buy Luminar 4 for the I Mac as a Plug in for Adobe & Apple products or Luminary's 4 as a stand alone product. Or do you recommend something else? 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Adrian. 

 

You don't say anything about your workflow so it is very difficult to advise. A lot of your stuff on Alamy is Live News and doesn't look like it has had much editing but you don't say if you are shooting raw which is fundamental and what sort of editing you are intending to do. You also don't say anything about your version of Lightroom on your laptop. CS5 won't install on MacOs Catalina as far as I know as the installer is not 64 bit. Some more info would be very helpful if you want an informed answer. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Prixpics said:

Hi Folks. I have a new Mac and was using CS5 student/teacher edition but Adobe's license per month is not something I want to use. I have Lightroom an a laptop and was about to put Lightoom on to my new i Mac but checked out editing software and saw Luminar as a one off payment option. So now I am not sure if to buy Luminar 4 for the I Mac as a Plug in for Adobe & Apple products or Luminary's 4 as a stand alone product. Or do you recommend something else? 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Adrian. 

 

I use CS3 and Lightroom 6 plus Luminar 4.

 

I'd say Luminar 4 is pretty good at what it does which sky replacements and some basic editing/sharpening/adding filter effects.

 

However I'd say its not a total replacement for Lightroom or Photoshop as it is somewhat slow and does not appear to offer cataloging

and keywording like Lightroom/PS  and the flexibility of Photoshop.

 

I'd say keep it as a useful additional tool either as a standalone or plugin

 

 

Edited by David Pimborough

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Hi Again, Thanks for your replies. 

Think I will stick to Lightroom.

 

Amused at: "doesn't look like it has had much editing" Well that's told me MDM. I am shooting Raw. The Lightroom that I have is 6. 

 

I am trying to avoid subscription editing software. 

 

Welcome to any further ideas about buying software. 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Adrian. 

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Note that DxO Photolab doesn't support Fuji cameras with X-Trans sensors. check if your camera is supported here:

 

https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/supported-cameras/

 

Shotkit don't include Affinity Photo in their review but it's defintely worht having a look at that, free trial available.

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1 hour ago, Prixpics said:

Hi Again, Thanks for your replies. 

Think I will stick to Lightroom.

 

Amused at: "doesn't look like it has had much editing" Well that's told me MDM. I am shooting Raw. The Lightroom that I have is 6. 

 

 

 

Not meant as an insult at all Adrian 😀. Most of your pics that I checked out look like straightforward news with minimal editing. Luminar is a pixel editor so would probably be of limited use to you if your Alamy port is representative of what you are intending to do as Lightroom should be more than capable. The only other program I have used for raw conversions in DxO Photolab which is very good but not as good as Lightroom on the whole (no database, less intuitive to use I think). 

 

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4 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Note that DxO Photolab doesn't support Fuji cameras with X-Trans sensors. check if your camera is supported here:

 

https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/supported-cameras/

 

Shotkit don't include Affinity Photo in their review but it's defintely worht having a look at that, free trial available.

 

I don't think any of these alternatives have all the features of Lightroom (DAM, advanced raw processor, excellent print module). Given that Lightroom is no longer available to purchase but comes with Photoshop at an incredibly good subscription price to me it is a no-brainer if using for professional or semi-professional purposes. If time is not important then by all means using a separate database, raw processor and pixel editor may work. For Mac I don't know if there is an alternative decent DAM - happy to be educated.  

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luminar is a new kind of subscription software where they bring out a new version every year at an upgrade price that is probably 75% of the full price.  Forget about bug fixes for the old version or any support.  Usually you will find the older version for sale for a couple of dollars at an online bundle store.  I base that on my experience with a sister app called Aurora HDR which I buy every year.  Having said that I recently purchased Luminar only for the sky replacement module which works very well, but I only use it as a Lightroom or Photoshop plugin.

 

If you're looking for a good editing app that won't ask for paid upgrades every year, I suggest affinityphoto

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12 hours ago, rickboden said:

luminar is a new kind of subscription software where they bring out a new version every year at an upgrade price that is probably 75% of the full price.  Forget about bug fixes for the old version or any support.  Usually you will find the older version for sale for a couple of dollars at an online bundle store.  I base that on my experience with a sister app called Aurora HDR which I buy every year.  Having said that I recently purchased Luminar only for the sky replacement module which works very well, but I only use it as a Lightroom or Photoshop plugin.

 

If you're looking for a good editing app that won't ask for paid upgrades every year, I suggest affinityphoto

 

I wouldn't really call it [Luminar] subscription software you can pay once and continue using it forever, as opposed to Adobe products where if you cease paying the subscription you lose access.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, David Pimborough said:

 

I wouldn't really call it [Luminar] subscription software you can pay once and continue using it forever, as opposed to Adobe products where if you cease paying the subscription you lose access.

 

 

 

That is not actually true. You don't lose access to the database part of Lightroom Classic (according to Adobe). You can't process any more images and you can no longer use Photoshop but you don't lose your previous work.

 

The perpetual model of software with regular paid updates is nothing new either. For years Adobe had updates of Photoshop and Lightroom on an 18 month or so cycle and it was more expensive to stay updated than on the current subscription. It is fundamental to the survival of any of these software companies that they keep selling their software and adapting to changes in hardware and competitor software or they will soon go out of business. They can't just produce a piece of software and never update it or not charge for updates. How would they pay their programmers and other employees for one thing, never mind all the marketing that is required to stay successful?

 

No doubt Adobe went subscription only as Photoshop was already so good that it had plateaued and people had stopped updating. How else are they going to make money but the subscription is excellent value. Lightroom and Photoshop have had numerous improvements and new features since the last perpetual license updates. The others have a very long way to go to catch up with Adobe. 

 

 

Edited by MDM
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MDM said:

For years Adobe had updates of Photoshop and Lightroom on an 18 month or so cycle and it was more expensive to stay updated than on the current subscription.


We both know each other's positions on this but that's rather the point for me, you had the choice, if you wanted to upgrade then you paid the price, never mind if it might work out costing more than subscribing, but usually of course if you keep with the same cameras and don't feel that you need the new features then you stay where you are with fully functional software that you have paid for. Capture One offer both payment models, only Adobe have locked everyone into the subscription model. You suggest that Adobe probably went to the subscription model because people could no longer see the point of upgrading Photoshop. Yes, they probably did but I see that as a cynical protectionist policy rather than good marketing.

 

As I've said before, if this only affected Photoshop then I'm fine with it because you have the choice of using other software, there are plenty of offerings that would be fine for the Alamy stock photographer, but Lightroom is different because the photographer might have invested thousands of hours in creating their catalogue(s) and the subscription model will have forced updates which mean that there is no going back. A catalogue without the develop model is useless really and although you might have sensibly chosen to write changes to xmp sidecar files no other program will properly interpret them.

Edited by Harry Harrison

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41 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:


We both know each other's positions on this but that's rather the point for me, you had the choice, if you wanted to upgrade then you paid the price, never mind if it might work out costing more than subscribing, but usually of course if you keep with the same cameras and don't feel that you need the new features then you stay where you are with fully functional software that you have paid for. Capture One offer both payment models, only Adobe have locked everyone into the subscription model. You suggest that Adobe probably went to the subscription model because people could no longer see the point of upgrading Photoshop. Yes, they probably did but I see that as a cynical protectionist policy rather than good marketing.

 

As I've said before, if this only affected Photoshop then I'm fine with it because you have the choice of using other software, there are plenty of offerings that would be fine for the Alamy stock photographer, but Lightroom is different because the photographer might have invested thousands of hours in creating their catalogue(s) and the subscription model will have forced updates which mean that there is no going back. A catalogue without the develop model is useless really and although you might have sensibly chosen to write changes to xmp sidecar files no other program will properly interpret them.

 

Yes this goes around and around. I always upgraded Photoshop as there were always new features or more importantly very significant speed enhancements under the covers as well as ACR improvements - the jumps from CS4 to CS5 to CS 6 were massive for example. And the upgrade cost of £190 or so every 18 months was worth it. Add the cost of upgrading Lightroom as well (typically £60) and the cost is around the same or a bit more than the subscription. 

 

The same has been true of Lightroom in the last few years. The improvements have been incremental but there is now a huge gap between the last perpetual version and the current version. Yes I understand the objections to subscription but there is a definite element of nose cutting to spite faces here, as the benefits of the subscription are well worth the £10 a month which some might miss but many will not. So Adobe's move to subscription only may have been cynical but it is what it is.

 

I don't agree that the catalog is useless either without the ability to continue raw processing. Obviously it is not intended for continued long term use but the fact that it is usable and accessible is very important. The idea would be to make sure one has done all the intended raw processing before cancelling and exported as JPEG and/or TIFF. The fact that other programs might not interpret the xmp files is neither here nor there really as the same would apply to any other raw converter so that is not specific to Adobe. However, as DNG is supposed to be a universal standard, writing all raws out to DNG might be sensible if one wanted to reprocess the raws in another program although I suspect one might start from scratch there. .

 

The main misconception which I corrected above is that you lose access to the catalog. You don't. 

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28 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 

Yes this goes around and around. I always upgraded Photoshop as there were always new features or more importantly very significant speed enhancements under the covers as well as ACR improvements - the jumps from CS4 to CS5 to CS 6 were massive for example. And the upgrade cost of £190 or so every 18 months was worth it. Add the cost of upgrading Lightroom as well (typically £60) and the cost is around the same or a bit more than the subscription. 

 

The same has been true of Lightroom in the last few years. The improvements have been incremental but there is now a huge gap between the last perpetual version and the current version. Yes I understand the objections to subscription but there is a definite element of nose cutting to spite faces here, as the benefits of the subscription are well worth the £10 a month which some might miss but many will not. So Adobe's move to subscription only may have been cynical but it is what it is.

 

I don't agree that the catalog is useless either without the ability to continue raw processing. Obviously it is not intended for continued long term use but the fact that it is usable and accessible is very important. The idea would be to make sure one has done all the intended raw processing before cancelling and exported as JPEG and/or TIFF. The fact that other programs might not interpret the xmp files is neither here nor there really as the same would apply to any other raw converter so that is not specific to Adobe. However, as DNG is supposed to be a universal standard, writing all raws out to DNG might be sensible if one wanted to reprocess the raws in another program although I suspect one might start from scratch there. .

 

The main misconception which I corrected above is that you lose access to the catalog. You don't. 

 

Do I understand that you are saying that if you discontinue the subscription you can no longer export images from the catalog as a RAW or TIFF so you can work on it in another program?  I'm wondering even if you can export now as a RAW. Probably not. I'm thinking I will have to go for the subscription as I am going to buy a new MacBook Pro. I've been under the impression that Develop module would no long work if you cancel but you could still keep the catalog and work on images in DXO or something else. No? That can't be done?

 

Paulette

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, NYCat said:

 

Do I understand that you are saying that if you discontinue the subscription you can no longer export images from the catalog as a RAW or TIFF so you can work on it in another program?  I'm wondering even if you can export now as a RAW. Probably not. I'm thinking I will have to go for the subscription as I am going to buy a new MacBook Pro. I've been under the impression that Develop module would no long work if you cancel but you could still keep the catalog and work on images in DXO or something else. No? That can't be done?

 

Paulette

 

No I'm not saying that. What I am saying is pretty much what you are saying so your impressions are correct. You can't do any further work on the raw in the Develop module if you cancel so it makes sense to export finished versions of the images as TIFF or JPEG. And you do of course have access to all your images to work on them in another program. Lightroom catalogs don't contain the images, just information about the images. Whether that program will read the Adobe xmp tags for raw conversion is another issue but I don't think that is of any real importance. If you go onto a new program/workflow, I think eventually you may no longer want to use the catalog anyway as you would presumably have found an alternative that integrates into your new workflow.

 

But unless you can't afford the £10 or $10 a month, then why ever cancel anyway. 

 

 

 

EDIT: I think it is worth emphasising the fact that Lightroom catalogs don't contain the images, just information about the images. You will always have access to your images and in fact you will continue to have access to the information about them (the metadata). It is always best to write out the metadata associated with the raw images to xmp files anyway so that you are not relying on the catalog for that information. What you might lose is Lightroom-specific metadata such as labels, star ratings and flags but not the keywords or other standard metadata.

Edited by MDM

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Posted (edited)

I'd much prefer it if Adobe offered a kind of hybrid model. Once I've paid 12 months subscription (or longer - maybe 2 years?) I should be given the option of continuing to pay, and continuing to receive updates, or stopping my subscription and retaining the full functionality of the current version or LR and PS (with no entitlement to updates).

I should be able to rejoin at any time, but it takes another 12 months (or 2 years?) of subscriptions before I can leave and retain the functionality of the latest versions I've received.

 

I think this would be much more widely acceptable and boost Adobe's market share further. What I hate is being "locked in". If I stop paying my Adobe Subscription, then my software stops working (the fact that the LR catalogue still works doesn't really cut the mustard). I keep reviewing the alternatives and I'm sure I'll leave Adobe at some point (if their subscription model doesn't change and/or my financial circumstances change). Affinity photo is my front runner at the moment. Although I suspect they will have to change their pricing too as I don't see how they can sustain free updates indefinitely.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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2 hours ago, MDM said:

 

 

No I'm not saying that. What I am saying is pretty much what you are saying so your impressions are correct. You can't do any further work on the raw in the Develop module if you cancel so it makes sense to export finished versions of the images as TIFF or JPEG. And you do of course have access to all your images to work on them in another program. Lightroom catalogs don't contain the images, just information about the images. Whether that program will read the Adobe xmp tags for raw conversion is another issue but I don't think that is of any real importance. If you go onto a new program/workflow, I think eventually you may no longer want to use the catalog anyway as you would presumably have found an alternative that integrates into your new workflow.

 

But unless you can't afford the £10 or $10 a month, then why ever cancel anyway. 

 

 

 

EDIT: I think it is worth emphasising the fact that Lightroom catalogs don't contain the images, just information about the images. You will always have access to your images and in fact you will continue to have access to the information about them (the metadata). It is always best to write out the metadata associated with the raw images to xmp files anyway so that you are not relying on the catalog for that information. What you might lose is Lightroom-specific metadata such as labels, star ratings and flags but not the keywords or other standard metadata.

 

Thank you. I'm sure I will be happy with the subscription but like to know that all will not be lost if I decide I can't continue.  All my raw images and catalog backups are on an external drive that I regularly copy to another that I keep at home and also one in a safe deposit box.

 

Paulette

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Prixpics

 

Don't discount the open source options just because of their unfair 'buggy' reputation.

I use Darktable and Gimp and have never had an issue with stability at all.

Darktable can be a little bit daunting with quite a large learning curve but is very powerful.

The latest version also offers a basic adjustments module to give the simple sliders for contrast, brightness etc like Lightroom for simplicity.

 

Oh and the best bit is of course they are free so more money for lenses etc.:D

 

Paying for stuff I guess gives the impression that they are better but having used Lightroom and PS and now the free stuff I haven't found a lot between them but I really like Darktable as it makes me feel like I am in an old shed, developing negatives, elbow deep in chemicals (but I am a bit strange ;))

 

Just noticed your on a Mac, Darktable and gimp are compatible with macs but just to let you know most of my experience has been on Windows and Linux 

Edited by Martin L
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Hi All, 

 

Thanks for you replies. I phoned Adobe this afternoon and was told I could not use the 2016 Lightroom 6 that I had purchased on my new I Mac as it runs Catalina. I could downgrade my operating system on the Mac and then use the Lightroom or use the Lightroom on a PC on Windows. 

I still have an old MacBook Pro that I use when out so will have to put up with this. Or buy Luminar. Not sure that I have the ability to use Darktable. 

 

Best wishes to you and your families at this difficult time. 

 

Adrian. 

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Luminar 3 ( not the new version) is my main raw processor, after using it for a year its all I use. Thinking of up grading to 4 for the sky replacement. 

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I bought Luminar 4 principally for the sky replacement feature. Use it now and then, but also find the A1 function and the landscape Enhancer useful. Improves the colour of foliage and can add a bit of 'gold' to a dull image. Not sure if it is a plug-in, but find it under Filters in PS Cloud. I find the Luminar Looks crude and not usable on Alamy. Unlike most contributors above I dislike the LR interface and much prefer to select from Bridge into RAW and then to PS with occasional visits to Luminar 4 when required. Bought Affinity Photo at the discounted price of £23.50. Not used it yet. It is my 'fall back' if I decide to ditch LR/PS subscription. May do that if sales continue to fall due to the Corona virus situation. Notice that most sales are now at below $10. Bought the Sony RX100M6 due age requirements for lighter equipment, but not been able to use it yet due to the lock-down here in UK. Not convinced it is worth-while now to spend money on taking pictures for sale on Alamy.

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Years ago, I used a collection of programs to do what Lightroom does. Switching to LR (first non-subscription, then subscription) was wonderful, not only because I had one tool that did it all, but also it did most of the tasks better. 

 

What I don't like about the Adobe subscription model is that I use only LR, but have to pay for PS as well. Any time I get a satisfaction survey from Adobe, I fill it with pleas to unbundle the two products.

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On 02/04/2020 at 07:52, Bill Kuta said:

Years ago, I used a collection of programs to do what Lightroom does. Switching to LR (first non-subscription, then subscription) was wonderful, not only because I had one tool that did it all, but also it did most of the tasks better. 

 

What I don't like about the Adobe subscription model is that I use only LR, but have to pay for PS as well. Any time I get a satisfaction survey from Adobe, I fill it with pleas to unbundle the two products.

 

I very rarely use Photoshop, but suspect that if I spent more time with it, I'd use it for things that Lightroom is less good about, like content fill and focus stacking.  My annual subscription is slightly less than previous upgrade charges. 

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