John Morrison Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jan Brown said: I guess so, but looking at some of the search terms that have brought up my images, they don't very often do that. Not all pic editors know what they're doing (and searching for images may be a job for a clueless office junior). Not all photographers know how to keyword their pix. Alamy's ranking algorithm can seem, at times, to be a rather blunt instrument. Yet, on the whole, it works. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jan Brown said: I guess so, but looking at some of the search terms that have brought up my images, they don't very often do that. maybe we disappear on their second refined search... one thing i am now looking is why i was there and irrelevant to them. for example I've actually gone against general KW advice and remove many location information for something that is not what people likely want when they do a location search (i might leave one just in case) it's actually one of the thing i love about the system... Alamy gives me feedback of some of their customers behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvallee Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, BidC said: How do you do that (ie search for KW to see how often they crop up) ? Sounds useful. And please could you say what AOA is ?? (Probably obvious, but I cant work it out - 'Alamy OA' .. (?) ) All Of Alamy in Measures 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, gvallee said: All Of Alamy in Measures thanks for answering, i missed the question @BidC. just look at searches in measures. there is great value (also discouraging stuff like my rare photo of a performer that has never been searched in 10 years 😉. oh well I'm ready if they make it big ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCat Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jan Brown said: I just searched on the first thing I saw out of my window - 'cherry tree'. I saw no great difference between the images on page 1 and those on page 14. What the ranking system ensures is that the big boys get to muscle their way to the top of the searches. I daresay they have worked hard, have great images and many of them, but it means that an exquisite image by a 'little boy' may never be seen. This big boy is a little old lady with poor muscle tone but I have been here over ten years and most of the time I have a good ranking from my small portfolio judging by how often my images appear on the first page. My philosophy has been to be selective about what I upload and take a lot of care with captions and keywords. The subjects where I have had a lot of sales are the subjects where my images appear at the top of the pile. Yes, it took a long time to get where I am and I am only making small (but steady) money. This is not the place to get rich and it looks to me like the people (Sally springs to mind) who work very, very hard and do excellent work are the ones who become "big boys". Paulette Edited September 4, 2019 by NYCat 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCat Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 The other part of my philosophy is that I only do as much as is enjoyable to me. I don't want the "trying to make money" to get in the way of my pleasure in photography. Not that I can't use the money but life is short. Paulette 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) .. Edited September 7, 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Ashmore Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jan Brown said: I'm not looking to get rich, Paulette, here or anywhere else, just trying to figure out whether I have any chance of ever making a sale. Thanks for your post, very useful, your philosophy is worth emulating. Sales come with quantity of images (you only have 200 which is nothing in terms of Alamy total image count), time, quality, experience. I have learnt a huge amount since I started. I think I take better images nowadays, I think I do a better job at keywording and I have a reasonable size port now... but none of this happened overnight! As a result, my CTR now bounces around average (believe me.. it didn't use to!!) and I make between 3 and 10 sales on an average month which isn't setting the world on fire but keeps me happy which is enough for me! And I totally agree with NYCat.. think of it as fun.. don't get stressed and in time you'll get there. Edited September 4, 2019 by Matt Ashmore 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Ranking is a complex thing and I still haven't worked out all the mysterious ways in which it moves after 10 years. I keep a list of possible and likely searches that people might make to find my pictures and I used to update it every time there was a re-ranking, but it seems that regular wholesale re-ranks are a thing of the past. But just to illustrate how difficult it is to determine what you're worth in Alamy currency, on one search term the last time I looked (which happens to be "Devizes") I was at 907 out of 3781, whereas on another search that I won't quote but which is a very popular subject, I was at 3 out of 9203. Work that one out! All I know is that pictures of both subjects still sell. Another point worth making is that some customers will use the New tab when searching to make sure they see the most recent uploads first, so whatever your rank, if you keep taking new images, even if they're well-photographed subjects, for some searches you will appear near the top. Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Ashmore Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Inchiquin said: Another point worth making is that some customers will use the New tab when searching to make sure they see the most recent uploads first, so whatever your rank, if you keep taking new images, even if they're well-photographed subjects, for some searches you will appear near the top. This is a very valid point. And I have watched a number of YouTube video in the past that suggests that most agencies include frequency of uploads in their algorithms for determining rankings of photos. So if you are actively uploading on a regular basis (even a couple of images once or twice a week) then the suggestion from what I have seen on YouTube is that this will help. And it makes sense.. promote active contributors so that they continue to be motivated as opposed to those who gave up years ago! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Jan Brown said: Would they, though? There is a lot of stuff on Alamy that other stock agencies simply wouldn't accept. Someone on here commented that someone they know always goes to G...y because they can quickly find an excellent image, something they feel they can't do on Alamy. Hi Jan, A heated discussion I see! That may be so for some clients, but equally, Alamy has images that other agencies won't have, and (currently) a bit of a different business model, so some clients will come here first. Part of their advertising claim to fame is the diversity of the image library. True, they're not all masterpieces, but even some of the "not pretty" ones sell. My highest seller would definitely not have been accepted by some other agencies. Alamy does tend to concentrate more on the editorial part of the market according to some other discussion threads I've seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jan Brown said: I'm not looking to get rich, Paulette, here or anywhere else, just trying to figure out whether I have any chance of ever making a sale. Thanks for your post, very useful, your philosophy is worth emulating. Jan, Some people sell better than others, depending on what they have in their portfolio. There are discussion threads on the forum on when people got their first sale. I got mine with about 200 images after 6 months. It does take a few months normally for a sold image to be reported. I sold just over 50 images last year with circa 2000 pictures. I think that might be a bit better than average, but I think anyone doing a lot of live news images, for example, is making a lot more sales than me. Edited September 4, 2019 by Steve F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt Ashmore said: This is a very valid point. And I have watched a number of YouTube video in the past that suggests that most agencies include frequency of uploads in their algorithms for determining rankings of photos. So if you are actively uploading on a regular basis (even a couple of images once or twice a week) then the suggestion from what I have seen on YouTube is that this will help. And it makes sense.. promote active contributors so that they continue to be motivated as opposed to those who gave up years ago! I think there might be something to that Matt. I am still making sales this year, but I've been uploading a lot less regularly, and there's definitely been a sales dip compared to last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Inchiquin said: But just to illustrate how difficult it is to determine what you're worth in Alamy currency, on one search term the last time I looked (which happens to be "Devizes") I was at 907 out of 3781, whereas on another search that I won't quote but which is a very popular subject, I was at 3 out of 9203. Work that one out! All I know is that pictures of both subjects still sell. It could be that you've had a zoom on that image previously using exactly the same search term(s) as, in my experience, that does seem to promote placement of that image. Sales on the other hand don't seem to cause an image to be promoted, indeed I sometimes wonder if sales demote an image. Go figure... Alamy can change the algorithm at any time, and so far as I can tell there hasn't been a rerank for absolutely ages - so it's probably not worth getting too worried about CTR. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Myford Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Jan Brown said: I'm not looking to get rich, Paulette, here or anywhere else, just trying to figure out whether I have any chance of ever making a sale. It is possible to make sales with a small number of images: I've had two this year with only 177 images remaining on sale (although admittedly one was due to a specific one-off event.) Having a varied selection of subjects helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BidC Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Jan Brown said: Would they, though? There is a lot of stuff on Alamy that other stock agencies simply wouldn't accept. Someone on here commented that someone they know always goes to G...y because they can quickly find an excellent image, something they feel they can't do on Alamy. Why not submit to them then ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BidC Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 10 hours ago, gvallee said: All Of Alamy in Measures Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BidC Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 10 hours ago, meanderingemu said: thanks for answering, i missed the question @BidC. just look at searches in measures. there is great value (also discouraging stuff like my rare photo of a performer that has never been searched in 10 years 😉. oh well I'm ready if they make it big ) Thank you - I'll take a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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