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Im confused about noise, I took some pictures at the weekend using my new ND1000 filters and the failed the QC  test because of noise, I have looked at the at 100% and cant see the noise that has failed them, I cant share the pics because they failed, would it be because I used the ND filters, is there any way of finding out what noise?

 

I was trying to get a picture of the misty water on the weir

 

The settings were

ISO 100

F22

20secs (Middle of a sunny day)

ND1000

 

Forgive the questions I am still new to this?

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I may be mistaken but I'm under the impression that sensors can suffer from long-exposure noise. I know my camera has a setting to reduce it but can't comment on it as it's never been a problem for me.

Post a 100% crop, or a full-sized image, on one of the many hosting sites. We can't really comment otherwise.

Edited by spacecadet

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you can post link to your images after uploading

one or more to your website or to a free online

gallery such as that found on https://www.dpreview.com/

Edited by JeffGreenberg
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31 minutes ago, FotoFinishMe said:

The settings were

ISO 100

F22

 

I would avoid f/22 - you will be into diffraction limitation at this aperture and your photos will be noticeably soft. Stick with f/11 or you can get away with f/16 on a full frame sensor. 

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+ 1 for Colin. 

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forgive the question, but did you upload pictures straight out of camera or did you do any editing? Also, what camera did you use?

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18 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I may be mistaken but I'm under the impression that sensors can suffer from long-exposure noise. I know my camera has a setting to reduce it but can't comment on it as it's never been a problem for me.

 

Yes, as I understand it, the sensor heats up which then causes noise in itself.

 

https://bpsop.com/to-use-or-not-to-use-long-exposure-noise-reduction/

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A couple of points, noise lurks in the shadows, you said midday sunny and you were going for silky water effect midday will be maximum contrast in sunny conditions. Most shots I see doing this technique are in more overcast conditions where the contrast is lower and shadows not as deep or pronounced. Definitely keep away from stopping your lens down to maximum, the rule of thumb for a lens maximum sharpness is f8 maybe f11, so you should always try for this mid range and better lens performance.

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On 31/10/2018 at 17:22, Colin Woods said:

 

I would avoid f/22 - you will be into diffraction limitation at this aperture and your photos will be noticeably soft. Stick with f/11 or you can get away with f/16 on a full frame sensor. 

Hi Colin thanks for that, I am new to the ND filters but as I was trying to keep the shutter open as long as possible I closed the aperture as far as possible, I did have a slight blur to the centre of the picture, could this have been caused by the tight aperture?

 

Hope people dont object to the questions., 

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42 minutes ago, FotoFinishMe said:

Hope people dont object to the questions., 

 

This forum is full of people, from dabblers to people who have earnt their wages with their cameras for decades,  who will give all sorts of advice. So feel free to ask. The only questions that get a RTFM reply are those from people who have not taken the time to read and understand the information that Alamy gives us. 

 

You can stack ND filters, so you are better off adding a two stop ND and shooting at f/11. Diffraction causes overall softness, but it may be more visible in the centre, I don't know as I have never really studied it in much detail. Its worth trying for yourself though - I was amazed at how the image softened with aperture. Put your camera in a tripod, focus and lock the focus, and take the same scene from f/8 down to your minimum, f/29 or f/32. 

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1 hour ago, FotoFinishMe said:

Hi Colin thanks for that, I am new to the ND filters but as I was trying to keep the shutter open as long as possible I closed the aperture as far as possible, I did have a slight blur to the centre of the picture, could this have been caused by the tight aperture?

 

Hope people dont object to the questions., 

 

As Colin says. However, it is important to give sufficient information to provide an informed answer and to be prepared to upload a full size version of the file so that it is possible to make a proper assessment.  You have omitted a few vital bits of info - the camera/ lens used , the file format (raw or jpeg), how you processed the image if you did. Dropbox is very good as you can upload raw files and make them generally downloadable easily. 

 

Finally, if an image fails on more than one criterion, I think they may only give you one reason. So your image might have also failed as SoLD as well as noise - from what you say about softness then that is likely. 20s exposures need a lot of care as well - solid tripod, no windblown and so on. 

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Hi All

 

So this was one of the shots that failed the QC, to try and answer some of the required details.

 

These are the shot details, slightly different to what I thought they were.

 

p.png?size=1280x960&size_mode=3

 

Lens was the Kit EF:18-55

I shot in Raw and this was the J-Peg version of it, I processed it with Digital Photo professional 4 and only slightly changed white balance settings.

 

I do realise this is only a starters camera kit and I do hope to upgrade some lenses soon but I think its OK to to get me started.

 

p.jpeg?size=1280x960&size_mode=3

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1 hour ago, FotoFinishMe said:

Hi All

 

So this was one of the shots that failed the QC, to try and answer some of the required details.

 

These are the shot details, slightly different to what I thought they were.

 

p.png?size=1280x960&size_mode=3

 

Lens was the Kit EF:18-55

I shot in Raw and this was the J-Peg version of it, I processed it with Digital Photo professional 4 and only slightly changed white balance settings.

 

I do realise this is only a starters camera kit and I do hope to upgrade some lenses soon but I think its OK to to get me started.

 

p.jpeg?size=1280x960&size_mode=3

The images aren't showing.

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46 minutes ago, FotoFinishMe said:

Fingers crossed that should fix it

 

Doesn't look like it's fixed. Crossing fingers doesn't usually work for anything much in my experience and is not generally a good idea when using a computer or other device as it makes typing very difficult :). You probably just need to set the permissions correctly in Dropbox so that it can be accessed by anyone and you don't need to upload the images here - just provide a public link so that they can be downloaded. If you save the metadata with the image, there is no need to provide details as all will be embedded. Good idea to provide the raw as well.

Edited by MDM

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The photo is very soft, probably because of f/22. Is it my eyes or is the image softer on the right? Which camera are you using? Is it a small sensor?

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The pic of the waterfall is showing. It's crop sensor Eos 1300 by the metadata.

It's hard to tell what the problem is because it's so soft. Colin is probably right about the small aperture, but could that be the whole problem? I don't think it's camera movement. The right-hand side could appear softer because of the trees moving.

The softness may have emphasised the noise but it's not your major problem. Without knowing your workflow it's hard to offer advice- are you over-sharpening? Resizing?

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Yes, I think there is noise (look at the water in the bottom left) and as Colin says, I think it is also soft.

If you were to try again, try a shutter speed of something more like f/11 as I think diffraction is causing the softness. The water looks like it is fast flowing so a shutter speed of just 2 or 3 seconds might give you the effect that you are after there.

Edited by Matt Ashmore

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Thanks gents, these were a couple of others in the same group one with the filter one without, just to try and compare, as you can see the water was fast flowing so I think maybe next time I will try with a wider aperture and shorter time to see if that removes the softness.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tynczv6hfynt0hw/IMG_8104.JPG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8xlmxmn36m55f3/IMG_8105.JPG?dl=0

 

 

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2 hours ago, FotoFinishMe said:

Think I might give up, saved to drop box, shared link but doesnt seem to whant to do it.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvp21s5ot8yfr6e/Capture.PNG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lik6pjz1gfl8v7n/IMG_8109.JPG?dl=0

 

 

 

This looks softer to me than diffraction alone could cause. The Canon EFS 18-55 Mk3 is also a pretty good kit lens. 

A 13sec exposure in bright sunlight at F25..... There are several other things that might be going on.

 

The EXIF data shows that long exposure noise removal is OFF which is good, but it also shows that focussing was done manually, presumably becuase there's not enough light for AF through the ND filter. Not ideal for manual focus either...

 

Could there also have been camera or IS movement during the exposure? The EXIF data doesn't show if lens IS was ON or OFF.

IS should be off when doing long exposures.

 

A high level of ND filtering has been used. Is the ND filter poor quality and internal reflections/scattering are causing some loss of sharpness and flare around high contrast edges? NB. Even if that is the cause, F25 is too small an aperture to give images that are sharp enough for Alamy, due to diffraction. 

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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It also looks a bit like you have a smear or something on the front element/filter. On the second photo of your second pair there looks to be a more blurry area running vertically from centre at bottom towards the upper right. Definitely try this photo again at f/11 and see if it is sharp. 

Edited by Colin Woods

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1 hour ago, spacecadet said:

It's crop sensor Eos 1300 by the metadata.

 

How do you see metadata from Dropbox?

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18 minutes ago, Colin Woods said:

 

How do you see metadata from Dropbox?

 

If you click download, you'll get the original jpg file with all metadata intact.

 

wim

 

edit: the download button; not the right-click variety.

Edited by wiskerke

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1 minute ago, wiskerke said:

he download button; not the right-click variety.

 

Ah, that'll be it then. Thanks

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